What's The Answer for MBB?

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Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#22
And then a rebuild. Hopefully in 2022 we'll see what HCMB's true offensive philosophy is with the right guys to execute it.
People have been saying "Next year" since Holder made MB the coach. We are in MB's 5th year.
Attendance continues to bleed out and we appear destined for yet ANOTHER finish in the bottom half of our league.

In MB's four years, (#1 NBA draft pick Cade Cunningham included), we have averaged 6.75th place in a 10 team conference. And it seems entirely possible that we could drop down to an average of 7th place after this year. People on this board have come up with a new excuse every year.

So now, the 6th year is when it all comes together? If not, then surely 7 years will be enough, right?
We weren’t saying next year in 2020.


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CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#23
We shoot fewer three point attempts than anyone in the conference other than WVA, we are tied at 9th.

The issue, offensively, is we struggle against the zone defense and can't get the ball inside. When we do get inside the arch we are shooting at a clip of 53.6%....
Agree. Pure shooters isn’t the be all/end all issue. You don’t break a zone by launching prayers and hoping for a good shooting night. You break it with penetration and getting the ball at or below the free throw line. When you slash, fill an open spot and hope the guy you have penetrating knows how to dump
It off (PSA: we are really really bad at this part. Like painfully bad.)

We need easy buckets. Those aren’t coming in a half court game for this group.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#24
Agree. Pure shooters isn’t the be all/end all issue. You don’t break a zone by launching prayers and hoping for a good shooting night. You break it with penetration and getting the ball at or below the free throw line. When you slash, fill an open spot and hope the guy you have penetrating knows how to dump
It off (PSA: we are really really bad at this part. Like painfully bad.)

We need easy buckets. Those aren’t coming in a half court game for this group.
We struggle against the zone because we have no ball movement and are really poor passers. Combine this with a lineup that often includes 3 & 4 guys on the floor that aren’t threats or a quick sub to “zone busters” who feel like they have to get a quick shot up to stay on the floor and you compound your shooting woes.

As you have previously posted, we sorely lack a pg w vision. We don’t see gaps or out of place defenders in time. The pg we’ve been playing lately to get AA off the ball touches is a prime example.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#25
Agree. Pure shooters isn’t the be all/end all issue. You don’t break a zone by launching prayers and hoping for a good shooting night. You break it with penetration and getting the ball at or below the free throw line. When you slash, fill an open spot and hope the guy you have penetrating knows how to dump
It off (PSA: we are really really bad at this part. Like painfully bad.)

We need easy buckets. Those aren’t coming in a half court game for this group.
We struggle against the zone because we have no ball movement and are really poor passers. Combine this with a lineup that often includes 3 & 4 guys on the floor that aren’t threats or a quick sub to “zone busters” who feel like they have to get a quick shot up to stay on the floor and you compound your shooting woes.

As you have previously posted, we sorely lack a pg w vision. We don’t see gaps or out of place defenders in time. The pg we’ve been playing lately to get AA off the ball touches is a prime example.
Nah, it’s mostly because we can’t shoot.


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Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#27
We shoot fewer three point attempts than anyone in the conference other than WVA, we are tied at 9th.

The issue, offensively, is we struggle against the zone defense and can't get the ball inside. When we do get inside the arch we are shooting at a clip of 53.6%....
Agree. Pure shooters isn’t the be all/end all issue. You don’t break a zone by launching prayers and hoping for a good shooting night. You break it with penetration and getting the ball at or below the free throw line. When you slash, fill an open spot and hope the guy you have penetrating knows how to dump
It off (PSA: we are really really bad at this part. Like painfully bad.)

We need easy buckets. Those aren’t coming in a half court game for this group.
This is the old man take. It’s because we can’t shoot. Defenders are slacking way off the guy on ball, or the help defense is cheating big time. Anybody that does penetrate has perimeter defenders who don’t respect our shooting crash. Anderson is legitimately one of the best half court penetrators in the entire county, but it doesn’t matter with how much help can happen. You cannot downplay how much shooting is correlated with winning nowadays.


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Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#28
I think it’s pretty clear that the line up next year should be Avery, Rondel, Thompson, Keylan, and then either Center would be fine. The only other players I’d be really curious about is Newton and Williams to see how their shooting is coming along. MAM would still get his run at the back up 4. But we have to shoot. So maximize your chances.


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Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#29
So it's the NCAA's fault we have one of the lowest 3 point percentages in all of college basketball? It's the NCAA's fault we don't give our players roles on offense? (Or run anything that looks like a structured offense). It's the NCAA's fault we turn the ball over and can't make free throws and don't call time outs when the other team goes on a run?

Your avatar would be disappointed with the excuse making.
It's not an excuse, it's just what it is.

When motivation is removed it's difficult to put the extra effort in.

It's interesting that you know Coach Boynton doesn't give players roles on offense. But something tells me you don't actually know any such thing....
 
Jun 20, 2013
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#30
Sandlot, you spelled both Boone brother name’s incorrectly. You can’t spell their name after three years but you expect them them to be all conference? It’s Kalib and Keylan, by the way. Also, it’s “there”, not “their” in your first sentence. If you’re gonna call people on their mistakes, at least be better yourself. Kalib only put up the best shooting percentage in school history last year, but you’re butt hurt he can’t shoot well?
I'm with you. I think Kalib has the chance to be special. His FG% is insane, and he's the team's 3rd leading scorer. Only gets 14 minutes a game. Shouldn't he be at 25+
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#32
Nah, it’s mostly because we can’t shoot.


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All I can do is point at… all of modern basketball… including 2020 Baylor, in the conversation for best team of the modern era, who had:
Butler shoot 41.6% from 3 on 6.2 attempts
Teague 39.5% on 5.1 attempts
Mitchell 44.7% on 4.7 attempts
Flagler 43.4% on 3.8 attempts
Mayer 39.5% on 2.5 attempts
Cryer 36.4% on 2.2 attempts


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Jun 20, 2013
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#33
People have been saying "Next year" since Holder made MB the coach. We are in MB's 5th year.
Attendance continues to bleed out and we appear destined for yet ANOTHER finish in the bottom half of our league.

In MB's four years, (#1 NBA draft pick Cade Cunningham included), we have averaged 6.75th place in a 10 team conference. And it seems entirely possible that we could drop down to an average of 7th place after this year. People on this board have come up with a new excuse every year.

So now, the 6th year is when it all comes together? If not, then surely 7 years will be enough, right?
I'm afraid you're right. It's beginning to point towards TFord2.0, which saddens me because I really like HCMB.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#34
You cannot downplay how much shooting is correlated with winning nowadays.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wasn't aware that shooting wasn't correlated with winning. When would that have been?
Cutting the context out is never cool, I’m clearly responding to someone there (cuz I quoted it) who is saying it’s more of an XOs issue rather than a pure shooting issue. And my point is, no, in the modern game you cannot just out scheme teams that can shoot as long as they also have a pulse schematically. And if the old timers are determined the program go on that fool’s errand then we will fail and fire an excellent coach in the process.


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CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#36
This is the old man take. It’s because we can’t shoot. Defenders are slacking way off the guy on ball, or the help defense is cheating big time. Anybody that does penetrate has perimeter defenders who don’t respect our shooting crash. Anderson is legitimately one of the best half court penetrators in the entire county, but it doesn’t matter with how much help can happen. You cannot downplay how much shooting is correlated with winning nowadays.


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Dont disagree but with this teams many warts, just being able to shoot wouldn’t change our record at all. You could put the supper versions of Phil Forte and Keiton page on this team, still would be 7-4 at best because 20 times a game our PG forgets which team he plays on. For as much crap as Spencer takes for his ability to turn it over, our three primary ball handlers are worse.
 

CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#37
And my point is, no, in the modern game you cannot just out scheme teams that can shoot as long as they also have a pulse schematically.


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Sure you can, lol. Coach Bennett had a string of teams at Virginia in the last 5 years that could and would beat almost every team they faced no matter how well they could shoot. Because the team bought in to playing the kind of defense that can take any shooters out of a game schematically. Guys like Marcus Dove could do it on their own. Keylan Boone could be that guy but it requires a commitment a lot of guys won’t make any more.

We’re on the same side, I promise. And if I’m an old timer than you must be very young. :D
 

CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#38
I think it’s pretty clear that the line up next year should be Avery, Rondel, Thompson, Keylan, and then either Center would be fine. The only other players I’d be really curious about is Newton and Williams to see how their shooting is coming along. MAM would still get his run at the back up 4. But we have to shoot. So maximize your chances.


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To me Woody has maximized his short minutes. Little surprised he’s not playing more with current shooting woes but I haven’t looked at the full stats either. He and Thompson were supposed to be the shooting help. Thompson is hurt snd Woody doesn’t get to play.
 
Apr 18, 2021
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Edmond, OK
#39
Sandlot, you spelled both Boone brother name’s incorrectly. You can’t spell their name after three years but you expect them them to be all conference? It’s Kalib and Keylan, by the way. Also, it’s “there”, not “their” in your first sentence. If you’re gonna call people on their mistakes, at least be better yourself. Kalib only put up the best shooting percentage in school history last year, but you’re butt hurt he can’t shoot well?
Give me a physical break! Shooting percentage is a skewed stat when 90% of your shots are from 2 ft and dunks. How has he improved? Keylan still can’t shoot or play D. Did I say I expected them to be all conference. I just expected they would have improved by year 3. This is my opinion and I never called anybody out. Nobody is butt hurt just putting my 2 cents in.