What's The Answer for MBB?

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Jun 20, 2013
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#1
After the Houston game, and another sub 20% 3pt shooting performance, I'm left scratching my head on what the answer is for our team. It cant be that hard to shoot the 3 ball, but I admittedly know little about basketball. What is the answer for this team and this staff?

Our 3pt% ranks 330 out of 358 D1 teams, with Mizzou and Nebraska being the only worse P5 teams. Our FT% is 296 in the country, with Stanford being the only worse P5 team. To be fair, our total FG% ranks 103, so I assume it's an ability to shoot problem as opposed to a scheme problem that gets guys open looks.

Are we recruiting poor shooters, or are we failing to develop them once they're here? As much as I don't like underwood, it was very clear the progress Mitch Solomon made in the one year he was here. I don't feel like anyone has become noticeably better in the couple years Boynton has been here. I really like Boynton, and love the way he's embraced our program, but am concerned that there are no signs of improvement.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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#2
I mean… you don’t actually mean that no one has improved. The jump Bryce Williams has made in front of our eyes is pretty apparent. The jump Avery Anderson made last year was pretty apparent. I think Kalib and Keylan have continued on their trajectory.

I think we need to appreciate Cade and what he was.

We talked about the shooting situation pre-season several times in the pre-season threads. It was a known thing, and ppl always overestimate the improvements that can be made at shooting.

It is definitely partly a Boyton mistake not to prioritize shooting during recruiting. Boyton also I think is learning the hard way about having too many guys and not clear roles. We’ve got a create line ups that allow shooting to develop.

Regardless, firing Boynton is a silly notion in my opinion.


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Aug 19, 2006
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#3
We'll find out in 2022. I don't think there isn't an answer for this team. Seems like HCMB completely misjudged what he was going to get out of this roster. There just isn't any offensive structure and/or the horses to lead it. There is no alpha guy. Just a bunch of really good athletes with limited basketball skills. We'll see some version of Colvin ball for the remainder of this season.

And then a rebuild. Hopefully in 2022 we'll see what HCMB's true offensive philosophy is with the right guys to execute it.
 
Aug 19, 2006
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#4
I mean… you don’t actually mean that no one has improved. The jump Bryce Williams has made in front of our eyes is pretty apparent. The jump Avery Anderson made last year was pretty apparent. I think Kalib and Keylan have continued on their trajectory.

I think we need to appreciate Cade and what he was.

We talked about the shooting situation pre-season several times in the pre-season threads. It was a known thing, and ppl always overestimate the improvements that can be made at shooting.

It is definitely partly a Boyton mistake not to prioritize shooting during recruiting. Boyton also I think is learning the hard way about having too many guys and not clear roles. We’ve got a create line ups that allow shooting to develop.

Regardless, firing Boynton is a silly notion in my opinion.


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Well said.
 
Sep 11, 2021
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#5
Good shooting comes from lots and lots of practice. Guys need to take it upon themselves to get in the gym early and leave late to improve their shooting. That's how one Mr. Phil Forte became a great shooter. Also someone named Kobe.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#6
Good shooting comes from lots and lots of practice. Guys need to take it upon themselves to get in the gym early and leave late to improve their shooting. That's how one Mr. Phil Forte became a great shooter. Also someone named Kobe.
Yeah… when people say this though, they think that lots of lots of practice is in the gym for 9 hours over a summer. What it actually means is like a decade of work.


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Aug 19, 2006
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#7
Good shooting comes from lots and lots of practice. Guys need to take it upon themselves to get in the gym early and leave late to improve their shooting. That's how one Mr. Phil Forte became a great shooter. Also someone named Kobe.
I don't think just anyone can be a Phil Forte caliber shooter. There is natural ability there that is developed through practice. From everything I hear about AA, he's a gym rat. He's just not a pure shooter.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#8
After the Houston game, and another sub 20% 3pt shooting performance, I'm left scratching my head on what the answer is for our team. It cant be that hard to shoot the 3 ball, but I admittedly know little about basketball. What is the answer for this team and this staff?

Our 3pt% ranks 330 out of 358 D1 teams, with Mizzou and Nebraska being the only worse P5 teams. Our FT% is 296 in the country, with Stanford being the only worse P5 team. To be fair, our total FG% ranks 103, so I assume it's an ability to shoot problem as opposed to a scheme problem that gets guys open looks.

Are we recruiting poor shooters, or are we failing to develop them once they're here? As much as I don't like underwood, it was very clear the progress Mitch Solomon made in the one year he was here. I don't feel like anyone has become noticeably better in the couple years Boynton has been here. I really like Boynton, and love the way he's embraced our program, but am concerned that there are no signs of improvement.
I think in a large way you can blame an organization these kids know little about other than name, and a man none of them know.

Everyone at the NCAA needs to be fired, the rule book scrapped and start over!

It's taken the wind from under their wings. They don't finish games with the enthusiasm they did last year. Winning and losing in the last few minutes of a game comes down to small differences.

It was a two point game at 4:35 Saturday...
 
Last edited:
Jan 21, 2006
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#9
I think in a large way you can blame an organization these kids know little about other than name, and a man none of them know.

Everyone at the NCAA needs to be fired, the rule book scrapped and start over!

It's taken the wind from under their wings. They don't finish games with the enthusiasm they did last year. Winning and losing in the last few minutes of a game comes down to small differences.

It was a two point game at 4:35 Saturday...
NCAA = Gucci loafers, Rolex watches, huge egos and low IQ's.
 

OSUCowboy787

Territorial Marshal
Dec 31, 2008
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Keller, Texas
#10
I feel like we need to just not shoot as many 3s. Run more set plays and pick and rolls etc to get closer shots and or layups. If you aren't good at shooting to begin with, don't rely on longer shots.
 
Oct 6, 2012
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#11
I feel like we need to just not shoot as many 3s. Run more set plays and pick and rolls etc to get closer shots and or layups. If you aren't good at shooting to begin with, don't rely on longer shots.
This.

Also, Kalib needs to practice hitting jumpers from the elbow. When people would run zone against us with Coach Sutton, Brett Robisch, Fred Jonzen, etc. used to kill them for it from the elbow.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
54,298
18,147
1,743
#12
I feel like we need to just not shoot as many 3s. Run more set plays and pick and rolls etc to get closer shots and or layups. If you aren't good at shooting to begin with, don't rely on longer shots.
We shoot fewer three point attempts than anyone in the conference other than WVA, we are tied at 9th.

The issue, offensively, is we struggle against the zone defense and can't get the ball inside. When we do get inside the arch we are shooting at a clip of 53.6%....
 
Oct 1, 2006
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www.yahoo.com
#13
Our identity is chaos and turnovers. We don't know who we are offensively which develops into bad shots and trying to force fast breaks that aren't there.

This is the most talented group we've had since Smart, Nash, Brown, Cobbins, etc. and the deepest group we've had since the Eddie days. The coaching staff has just not been able to put them together.

If you look at the top programs in the country, Gonzaga, Duke, Baylor, Purdue, etc you will see teams with tremendous structure. Their guys play within a system that is based in passing and moving without the ball, yes, but more importantly guys knowing the right spots on the floor to make a play. The understanding of this stuff happens in the preseason. It's shocking to see where we are at this point.

Don't get me started on our zone offensive schemes.
 
Apr 18, 2021
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Edmond, OK
#14
I mean… you don’t actually mean that no one has improved. The jump Bryce Williams has made in front of our eyes is pretty apparent. The jump Avery Anderson made last year was pretty apparent. I think Kalib and Keylan have continued on their trajectory.

I think we need to appreciate Cade and what he was.

We talked about the shooting situation pre-season several times in the pre-season threads. It was a known thing, and ppl always overestimate the improvements that can be made at shooting.

It is definitely partly a Boyton mistake not to prioritize shooting during recruiting. Boyton also I think is learning the hard way about having too many guys and not clear roles. We’ve got a create line ups that allow shooting to develop.

Regardless, firing Boynton is a silly notion in my opinion.


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I’m not sure what your watching but their has been very little improvement by any of the players mentioned above. Anderson had a nice 2 weeks at the end of season last year, but the turnovers and shooting inconsistencies are still a glaring issue. The Boone brothers haven’t developed in year 3 like everyone hoped. I’m not sure Kaleb has hit a 12 foot shot since he’s been here. Keylon has struggled for the most part with his 3 point shot… nice little 0-6 against Houston. Has MAM improved? Bryce Williams can get hot, but still plays out of control. Mike Boynton has built his teams very guard heavy. This yr he added size with the 3 transfers in Cisse, Smith, and Newton. These 3 haven’t been shown to be difference makers. Is that coaching or maybe they were overrated by the star system. Mike Boynton has had ample time to prove his worth as a coach. I’m very concerned the program is headed in the wrong direction. The wins aren’t there and the attendance is horrible.
 
Sep 11, 2021
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Wisconsin
#15
I don't think just anyone can be a Phil Forte caliber shooter. There is natural ability there that is developed through practice. From everything I hear about AA, he's a gym rat. He's just not a pure shooter.
I do not buy the natural shooter argument.

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-...ooting-form-over-the-course-of-one-offseason/

To correct the flaw, Kobe said, he went to the gym over the summer and made 100,000 shots. That’s 100,000 made, not taken. This would mean that Kobe averaged over 1000 shots a day for several months in order to put his shooting form into muscle memory.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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Stillwater
#16
We aren't good at shooting the 3. Basketball today is designed around the 3 point shot. Cade was a good 3 point shooter and that set the table for everyone else. In Boytons first year we had dizzy, smith, Shine, Waters, Carroll all could shoot and we had a good offense, even with a smaller "big guy" In today's game you have one good three point shooter and a decent inside guy and you can compete with anyone...like ORU, Cleveland state, Charleston and so on. I can't tell you how many wide open three point shots our offense has produced that have been missed or how many wide open three pointers ICE turns down thus giving his man free range to double someone else. It's hard to get a pure shooter though as we have had many "shooters" that haven't panned out for whatever reason.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#17
I mean… you don’t actually mean that no one has improved. The jump Bryce Williams has made in front of our eyes is pretty apparent. The jump Avery Anderson made last year was pretty apparent. I think Kalib and Keylan have continued on their trajectory.

I think we need to appreciate Cade and what he was.

We talked about the shooting situation pre-season several times in the pre-season threads. It was a known thing, and ppl always overestimate the improvements that can be made at shooting.

It is definitely partly a Boyton mistake not to prioritize shooting during recruiting. Boyton also I think is learning the hard way about having too many guys and not clear roles. We’ve got a create line ups that allow shooting to develop.

Regardless, firing Boynton is a silly notion in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m not sure what your watching but their has been very little improvement by any of the players mentioned above. Anderson had a nice 2 weeks at the end of season last year, but the turnovers and shooting inconsistencies are still a glaring issue. The Boone brothers haven’t developed in year 3 like everyone hoped. I’m not sure Kaleb has hit a 12 foot shot since he’s been here. Keylon has struggled for the most part with his 3 point shot… nice little 0-6 against Houston. Has MAM improved? Bryce Williams can get hot, but still plays out of control. Mike Boynton has built his teams very guard heavy. This yr he added size with the 3 transfers in Cisse, Smith, and Newton. These 3 haven’t been shown to be difference makers. Is that coaching or maybe they were overrated by the star system. Mike Boynton has had ample time to prove his worth as a coach. I’m very concerned the program is headed in the wrong direction. The wins aren’t there and the attendance is horrible.
Avery’s improvement was a lot more than 2 weeks last year. He’s also the player who’s jump shot has clearly developed the most. Williams has literally become a lead ball handler and with that increased time with the ball in his hands, his responsibility drastically increased.

Kalib’s defense has improved a long with his fitness, Keylan’s decision making and yes, despite a poor night vs Houston, his stroke continues to look improved.

The attendance issue has always been a problem post the GIA expansion. Lets just be real there.


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Nov 18, 2010
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#18
I think in a large way you can blame an organization these kids know little about other than name, and a man none of them know.

Everyone at the NCAA needs to be fired, the rule book scrapped and start over!
.
So it's the NCAA's fault we have one of the lowest 3 point percentages in all of college basketball? It's the NCAA's fault we don't give our players roles on offense? (Or run anything that looks like a structured offense). It's the NCAA's fault we turn the ball over and can't make free throws and don't call time outs when the other team goes on a run?

Your avatar would be disappointed with the excuse making.
 

POPOKE

Territorial Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Feb 7, 2007
7,277
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South Carolina
#19
I mean… you don’t actually mean that no one has improved. The jump Bryce Williams has made in front of our eyes is pretty apparent. The jump Avery Anderson made last year was pretty apparent. I think Kalib and Keylan have continued on their trajectory.

I think we need to appreciate Cade and what he was.

We talked about the shooting situation pre-season several times in the pre-season threads. It was a known thing, and ppl always overestimate the improvements that can be made at shooting.

It is definitely partly a Boyton mistake not to prioritize shooting during recruiting. Boyton also I think is learning the hard way about having too many guys and not clear roles. We’ve got a create line ups that allow shooting to develop.

Regardless, firing Boynton is a silly notion in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m not sure what your watching but their has been very little improvement by any of the players mentioned above. Anderson had a nice 2 weeks at the end of season last year, but the turnovers and shooting inconsistencies are still a glaring issue. The Boone brothers haven’t developed in year 3 like everyone hoped. I’m not sure Kaleb has hit a 12 foot shot since he’s been here. Keylon has struggled for the most part with his 3 point shot… nice little 0-6 against Houston. Has MAM improved? Bryce Williams can get hot, but still plays out of control. Mike Boynton has built his teams very guard heavy. This yr he added size with the 3 transfers in Cisse, Smith, and Newton. These 3 haven’t been shown to be difference makers. Is that coaching or maybe they were overrated by the star system. Mike Boynton has had ample time to prove his worth as a coach. I’m very concerned the program is headed in the wrong direction. The wins aren’t there and the attendance is horrible.
Sandlot, you spelled both Boone brother name’s incorrectly. You can’t spell their name after three years but you expect them them to be all conference? It’s Kalib and Keylan, by the way. Also, it’s “there”, not “their” in your first sentence. If you’re gonna call people on their mistakes, at least be better yourself. Kalib only put up the best shooting percentage in school history last year, but you’re butt hurt he can’t shoot well?
 
Nov 18, 2010
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#20
And then a rebuild. Hopefully in 2022 we'll see what HCMB's true offensive philosophy is with the right guys to execute it.
People have been saying "Next year" since Holder made MB the coach. We are in MB's 5th year.
Attendance continues to bleed out and we appear destined for yet ANOTHER finish in the bottom half of our league.

In MB's four years, (#1 NBA draft pick Cade Cunningham included), we have averaged 6.75th place in a 10 team conference. And it seems entirely possible that we could drop down to an average of 7th place after this year. People on this board have come up with a new excuse every year.

So now, the 6th year is when it all comes together? If not, then surely 7 years will be enough, right?