What will the republicans do?

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OSUCowboy787

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If automation makes sense, they are going to do it regardless of what the minimum wage is.

Wal Mart has self checkout and maybe fast food places have self order screens for takeout. They did that long before people were talking about a minimum wage bump.
Do you think a higher minimum wage will force other places to follow those footsteps sooner or take longer to adopt that model?
 

Rack

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If automation makes sense, they are going to do it regardless of what the minimum wage is.

Wal Mart has self checkout and maybe fast food places have self order screens for takeout. They did that long before people were talking about a minimum wage bump.
Understand I'm not saying that a fed minimum wage bump is a good idea...just might not want to go to all the way up all at once.
 

cowboyinexile

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Do you think a higher minimum wage will force other places to follow those footsteps sooner or take longer to adopt that model?
I don't think it matters. Personally I question the need for a $15 minimum wage nationwide (it should he more of a state or regional issue), but think it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Businesses are going to do whatever they can to streamline profits. If a business says its going to lay off workers because of this, I would argue they may have had too many people employed in the first place. Their hours of operation didn't change and neither did the duties of their employees.

Also they aren't going to go to an automated system because someone making $12/hr suddenly makes $15. For a small business it's not enough of a difference to justify the investment and for the large business, as I've mentioned they are already doing it.

BUt iNfLAtiON!!! you say. Maybe, but there are so many other economic issues that influence it that the contribution from a change in minimum wage is a drop in the bucket. Look at your grocery bill now vs. 12 months ago. Groceries are way more expensive now. What contributed more to it? COVID disrupting supply chains, increased demand for groceries due to restaurants being closed, multiple stimulus packages given to all Americans and very generous unemployment insurance to boot, which kept the average consumer to going into recession spending mode, or the $500 bonus the people at grocery store employees got back in May for sticking around when we didn't really know how this was spreading?
 

Midnight Toker

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Do you have any concern about employment by doubling the National minimum wage? I think it is a very safe assumption that there will be job loss... just a debate of how much more unemployment. With COVID still impacting employment and economy, I just don’t see how doubling the minimum is a good move.

Certainly you can applaud Australia if you are a fan of high minimum wage, but their 2019 poverty levels (people living below poverty line) were more than 20% higher than US (US Census 2019 estimates and Sydney Morning Herald 2/21/20). Are there multiple reasons for this other than minimum wage, absolutely, but that has to be concerning.
If we did it overnight, it would be a problem. If it's incremental, it can be absorbed. To me $15 is an arbitrary number, but it's a place to start. Some countries have minimum wages based on the sector or field. I.e. retail, electrical etc. I like that. Since there are many countries in the world, we can look at their example and see how it impacted them. In 2021, almost half the states will increase their minimum wage. With that in mind, it's clear that this is an issue that has to be fixed. I think this is an issue that has been ignored too long and we can do the reasonable thing which is to have the conversation and come up with a process moving forward. I mean we are the richest most capable nation on earth.

Australia was smart, and their min wage for people over 21 is $19, but for people under 21 its different, and yet again it's lower still for people under 16. I applaud them not because i am a fan of high minimum wage, but for their efforts which show a clear concern for their people.(socially speaking. the min wage and their healthcare are examples). It would appear the bottom line for them is different than it is for us.

It's a fair point, but I am not sure if the poverty levels are impacted by the minimum wage, in australia, about 3% of the labor force earns minimum wage. It is probably more impacted by how poverty is defined (a couple with two kids making under $47k a year is poverty there). But that's impossible if both parents work full time because the minimum wage would put their combined income to about 70k). So nobody with a full time job in australia will be living in poverty unless they have kids. Not the case in the US. I think a better measure of the impact of the min wage would be unemployment or underemployment. And Australia's unemployment is only slightly higher, historically, than the US and was hovering just over 5% prior to covid.

I applaud your honesty, but your reply does not reflect free market capitalism. I mentioned $20, $50 and Barkley, because once you've accepted centralized economic planning, it's only a matter of who is sitting behind the controls and their views of who should be paying or earning what.
This is why we have elections, and officials elected to represent us. So they can have those conversations and debates, with expert testimony on potential impacts.

While Obama was in office talking down to Wall Street: "Now, what we’re doing, I want to be clear, we’re not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that's fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money." He then proceeded to cash in on the presidency turning a net worth of $1.3M to $70M+ doing nothing but speeches, netflixing and book writing. Of course, that pales in comparison to what the Clinton Foundation raked in selling access.
Being a former president is extremely lucrative, well, it used to be. I am not sure rump will ever command $500k for a speech, but anything is possible. In regard to his earnings, he is taxed on them, people can earn all they want, but the high earners should also be the high tax payers. But with all the loopholes in the laws, instead many of the highest earners pay less than some of the lowest earners. And perhaps, that's where the sentiment of Obama's comment comes into play.

Freedom, free markets, a constitutionally-limited government, transparency and accountability are principles that will provide the greatest number of people a better life and the greatest opportunity to succeed. What we're about to see is a government run by elitists who think most Americans are incapable of tying their own shoes. The DC Dems are here to take the hurt out of your stupid. Unfortunately, we're nearing the metaphorical event horizon, and we won't recover from the insanity.
Yawn. More elitist talk. Every time a democrat steps in office all i hear is elitist this and elitist that. we just had 4 years of an elitist , biden is more blue collar than the every potus we've had in the last few decades save for maybe slick willy. I am looking forward to the next 4 years, and im not even a democrat. just glad to have a pragmatic personality back in charge.
 

Midnight Toker

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Andrew Yang is running for mayor of NYC.. let's see what he can do. Talk is cheap.
I am well aware of what he is doing right now. I would be delighted to see him run NYC. It would give him a platform for a legit presidential run. He would be the first democrat I would run to the polls for.
 
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I am well aware of what he is doing right now. I would be delighted to see him run NYC. It would give him a platform for a legit presidential run. He would be the first democrat I would run to the polls for.
I sincerely hope he wins. Only way to reform the swamp is from within the swamp. No outsiders need apply.
 

Boomer.....

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I am well aware of what he is doing right now. I would be delighted to see him run NYC. It would give him a platform for a legit presidential run. He would be the first democrat I would run to the polls for.
As evident in this past election, the DNC won't let a young democrat with outside the box ideas win the nomination. They want the status quo old, white politician.
 

Midnight Toker

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As evident in this past election, the DNC won't let a young democrat with outside the box ideas win the nomination. They want the status quo old, white politician.
Who is to say they wouldnt want that? They dont have a choice, voters decided who won the nomination. As far as that goes, "They want the status quo, old, white politician." For a moment there I could have sworn you were talking about republicans.

I sincerely hope he wins. Only way to reform the swamp is from within the swamp. No outsiders need apply.
Well nyc is a cesspool so if can do work there he can do anything. maybe we do need an asian in charge.
 
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Who is to say they wouldnt want that? They dont have a choice, voters decided who won the nomination. As far as that goes, "They want the status quo, old, white politician." For a moment there I could have sworn you were talking about republicans.
In last 2 elections since Obama, the Dems went with 2 of the oldest white politicians possible. With one of the oldest Bernie coming in a close second. Not exactly the diversity one might expect.
 

Boomer.....

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Who is to say they wouldnt want that? They dont have a choice, voters decided who won the nomination. As far as that goes, "They want the status quo, old, white politician." For a moment there I could have sworn you were talking about republicans.


Well nyc is a cesspool so if can do work there he can do anything. maybe we do need an asian in charge.
The DNC made sure Bernie wasn't the nominee the last two elections despite the public backing. I was hoping to see Tulsi or Yang get some backing, but they never stood a chance.
 
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The DNC made sure Bernie wasn't the nominee the last two elections despite the public backing. I was hoping to see Tulsi or Yang get some backing, but they never stood a chance.
Name recognition is so important because voters are generally uninformed. Tulsi and Yang were unheard of this cycle, but that won't be the case in a few years. They'll have the name recognition to be serious contenders, unless a celebrity runs of course.
 

OSUCowboy787

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I don't think it matters. Personally I question the need for a $15 minimum wage nationwide (it should he more of a state or regional issue), but think it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Businesses are going to do whatever they can to streamline profits. If a business says its going to lay off workers because of this, I would argue they may have had too many people employed in the first place. Their hours of operation didn't change and neither did the duties of their employees.

Also they aren't going to go to an automated system because someone making $12/hr suddenly makes $15. For a small business it's not enough of a difference to justify the investment and for the large business, as I've mentioned they are already doing it.

BUt iNfLAtiON!!! you say. Maybe, but there are so many other economic issues that influence it that the contribution from a change in minimum wage is a drop in the bucket. Look at your grocery bill now vs. 12 months ago. Groceries are way more expensive now. What contributed more to it? COVID disrupting supply chains, increased demand for groceries due to restaurants being closed, multiple stimulus packages given to all Americans and very generous unemployment insurance to boot, which kept the average consumer to going into recession spending mode, or the $500 bonus the people at grocery store employees got back in May for sticking around when we didn't really know how this was spreading?
Ok lets say small mom and pop convenience store in Alabama. 7.25 an hour is the wage of their cashiers and they have 5-10 employees who make that. Now over double their wages.

around 1200 a month wages goes to 2400 per employee

Meaning per month you're looking at 6-12k in higher employee costs. Now would it be cheaper to spend a couple grand in one month for an automated checkout and then cut your employees in half to just manage those machines?
 

cowboyinexile

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Ok lets say small mom and pop convenience store in Alabama. 7.25 an hour is the wage of their cashiers and they have 5-10 employees who make that. Now over double their wages.

around 1200 a month wages goes to 2400 per employee

Meaning per month you're looking at 6-12k in higher employee costs. Now would it be cheaper to spend a couple grand in one month for an automated checkout and then cut your employees in half to just manage those machines?
It's not a sustainable business model.

For a mom and pop convenience store, they are only going have a couple of employees as mom and pop are taking up most of the hours themselves. And those employees have to be 21+ to be able to sell beer. If they are offering minimum wage in a normal economy, they are going to attract a level of worker that really likes to either put stuff in their pocket or hook their buddies up.

The only way to avoid that (arguably with any mom and pop) is to be there as much as humanly possible. That type of model is probably going to be a hold out for automation because the owner is the one running the register most of the time.

To be fair, I'm not arguing that $15/hr minimum wage in rural Alabama is a good idea. I honestly don't know. But even is its a dumb idea its not going to crush small businesses the way you are indicating.
 

OSUCowboy787

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It's not a sustainable business model.

For a mom and pop convenience store, they are only going have a couple of employees as mom and pop are taking up most of the hours themselves. And those employees have to be 21+ to be able to sell beer. If they are offering minimum wage in a normal economy, they are going to attract a level of worker that really likes to either put stuff in their pocket or hook their buddies up.

The only way to avoid that (arguably with any mom and pop) is to be there as much as humanly possible. That type of model is probably going to be a hold out for automation because the owner is the one running the register most of the time.

To be fair, I'm not arguing that $15/hr minimum wage in rural Alabama is a good idea. I honestly don't know. But even is its a dumb idea its not going to crush small businesses the way you are indicating.
I sold plenty of beer before i was 21 at the grocery store. You can fully do that before you're 21.


Texas alcohol laws permit adults aged 18 or older to tend bar. They may also serve alcohol in a venue for drinking on-site. Those 16 or older may sell beer and wine in stores selling it for consumption elsewhere. They must be age 21 to sell spirits (liquor) in such businesses.