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USA...our country/government...good, bad, ugly

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PF5

PF5

Deputy
#21
Jan 3, 2014
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#21
Jostate

Jostate

Identifies as a Cowboys fan
A/V Subscriber
#22
Jun 24, 2005
23,434
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#22
O

OSUPsych

Sheriff
#23
May 4, 2011
4,132
1,769
1,743
Charleston, SC
#23
Jostate said:
It's not so easy to find a presidential poll from a specific date in the past, unless that date was right around election time.
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Depending on what you mean, it's actually quite easy. 538 maintains an aggregate tracker that's interactive. Pick whatever date in his presidency you like. Looks like his high watermark was March 31 of 2020 at 45% approve. He got close again when vaccines were on the horizon and then plummeted after Jan 6.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
 
Jostate

Jostate

Identifies as a Cowboys fan
A/V Subscriber
#25
Jun 24, 2005
23,434
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#25
steross said:
I shorthanded "911" but from that was the entire GWOT and Iraq/Afghanistan. The initial pandemic wave was like 911. The ongoing response was like Iraq/Afghanistan. Bush started well then messed up and still got elected.

I won't even respond to your attempts to defend Trump's actions on Covid as any rational look would know he did a poor job in so many ways.

He didn't get reelected because he did a poor job. I really don't see our country getting rid of him for doing a great job just because they in general mad about a virus.
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I think a better comparison would be Biden and inflation. Biden (or whoever has their hand up his backside) didn't really start inflation, and there are some huge factors beyond his control that contributed to it. Now he doesn't get a free pass, because there are things he could have done better. But his political opponents are going to politicize it and blame him all they can. It's the way the game is played, but is often an oversimplification.
 
Jostate

Jostate

Identifies as a Cowboys fan
A/V Subscriber
#26
Jun 24, 2005
23,434
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#26
LS1 Z28

LS1 Z28

Territorial Marshal
#27
Oct 30, 2007
5,494
4,233
1,743
#27
PF5 said:
I've seen no poll where he was 49%, but honestly didn't look too hard (realclearpolitics and fivethirtyeight)...I agree to disagree on trump losing because of virus, but I will say he handled it poorly...his main downfall IMO, besides being an arrogant prick (among other things), is he thought his "base" people were enough instead of trying to get others (non trumpsters and far righters) on his side.
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I don't really follow the polls either, but Gallup is the first one that popped up when I Googled it. Regardless of what the polls say, there's no doubt that he lost support after the pandemic started.

Trump was an inadequate leader. That was proven once he was put in a position where he actually had to lead. I sincerely hope he doesn't decide to run again in 2024.

1655088659423.png
 
O

OSUPsych

Sheriff
#28
May 4, 2011
4,132
1,769
1,743
Charleston, SC
#28
LS1 Z28 said:
I don't really follow the polls either, but Gallup is the first one that popped up when I Googled it. Regardless of what the polls say, there's no doubt that he lost support after the pandemic started.

Trump was an inadequate leader. That was proven once he was put in a position where he actually had to lead. I sincerely hope he doesn't decide to run again in 2024.

View attachment 95971
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He actually gained support in March 2020. He lost support in summer of 2020 and after Jan 6. That's clear in the poll you posted and the other two that have been posted.
 
LS1 Z28

LS1 Z28

Territorial Marshal
#29
Oct 30, 2007
5,494
4,233
1,743
#29
OSUPsych said:
He actually gained support in March 2020. He lost support in summer of 2020 and after Jan 6. That's clear in the poll you posted and the other two that have been posted.
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That's true. Trump had the highest approval rating of his presidency going into the pandemic. It was even higher than the day he took office. It looked like he was sailing to a second term. Then the pandemic hit, and his approval rating took a nosedive. It rebounded some, but never reached the same level. It then took another nosedive after the election.

No one knows for sure what would've happened without the pandemic, but it's very plausible to think that he would've won a second term. (Assuming he didn't screw something else up in the meantime.)
 
O

OSUPsych

Sheriff
#30
May 4, 2011
4,132
1,769
1,743
Charleston, SC
#30
LS1 Z28 said:
That's true. Trump had the highest approval rating of his presidency going into the pandemic. It was even higher than the day he took office. It looked like he was sailing to a second term. Then the pandemic hit, and his approval rating took a nosedive. It rebounded some, but never reached the same level. It then took another nosedive after the election.
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March 31 was after everything shut down. That was his highest rating which occurred as deaths were increasing in New York and the realities of the pandemic were starting to set in. They stay relatively high until George Floyd's death. The 538 one is average across polls and lets you move through dates.
 
steross

steross

he/him
A/V Subscriber
#32
Mar 31, 2004
33,684
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oklahoma city
#32
Jostate said:
I think a better comparison would be Biden and inflation. Biden (or whoever has their hand up his backside) didn't really start inflation, and there are some huge factors beyond his control that contributed to it. Now he doesn't get a free pass, because there are things he could have done better. But his political opponents are going to politicize it and blame him all they can. It's the way the game is played, but is often an oversimplification.
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Of course a president doing a poor job is going to hear about it from the opposition. That doesn’t in any way excuse a poor job. You are attempting to blame everyone but Trump for the topic of Trump’s actions during the pandemic. Why does this guy have such a hold on you?

It simply isn’t true that Trump did ok but “the left” and china left him with the blame. Even if it were true, guess what a leader who is unable to control the narrative during a crisis is called? A poor leader.
 
LS1 Z28

LS1 Z28

Territorial Marshal
#33
Oct 30, 2007
5,494
4,233
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#33
OSUPsych said:
March 31 was after everything shut down. That was his highest rating which occurred as deaths were increasing in New York and the realities of the pandemic were starting to set in. They stay relatively high until George Floyd's death. The 538 one is average across polls and lets you move through dates.
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That's an interesting theory. I always thought that his approval ratings dropped due to his handling of the pandemic. I never really considered the idea that people blamed him for the backlash caused by George Floyd's murder.

The truth is that presidents tend to get blamed for whatever occurs in our country, regardless of how much control they have over it. The pandemic was going to run through our population, regardless of who was in the White House. As Jostate alluded to earlier, Biden is getting the brunt of the blame for inflation, despite the fact that the responsibility to control it falls largely to the Fed.
 
CocoCincinnati

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
#34
Feb 7, 2007
17,340
17,525
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#34
I never thought trump's actions on covid were bad, actually thought they were good considering nobody knew what the hell was going on or what to expect. His mouth on the other hand was as bad as ever if not worse. Kept flipping and flopping, playing the blame game, acting like he knew better than everyone and just plain being a d!ck about it. It's not a mystery why he lost.

If you look at exit polling, covid was the #1 issue mentioned and the voters who listed it as most important overwhelmingly voted Biden. Voters that listed the economy most important went in favor of trump. Deserved or not, he would've got credit for a strong economy and it would have been strong if not for the pandemic.
 
PF5

PF5

Deputy
#35
Jan 3, 2014
2,148
528
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#35
Term limits would help greatly IMO...I read somewhere where they suggested one term for House, Senate, POTUS, and Supreme Court Justices, but extend the years for that ONE term...their idea was House - 3 yrs, Senate - 9 yrs, POTUS - 6 years, Justices - 20 yrs...we have politicians that are no longer in it to help the people but to only help themselves, their party, their contributors...
 
steross

steross

he/him
A/V Subscriber
#36
Mar 31, 2004
33,684
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oklahoma city
#36
CocoCincinnati said:
I never thought trump's actions on covid were bad, actually thought they were good considering nobody knew what the hell was going on or what to expect. His mouth on the other hand was as bad as ever if not worse. Kept flipping and flopping, playing the blame game, acting like he knew better than everyone and just plain being a d!ck about it. It's not a mystery why he lost.

If you look at exit polling, covid was the #1 issue mentioned and the voters who listed it as most important overwhelmingly voted Biden. Voters that listed the economy most important went in favor of trump. Deserved or not, he would've got credit for a strong economy and it would have been strong if not for the pandemic.
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In a crisis, the "mouth" of a leader of a leader is an action. Think about a football coach that makes a good gameplan then says stupid things to the players. They won't win.

I don't think we can ever know what the economy would be without the pandemic. The Fed and government had been pumping it up inappropriately during the entire presidency as I discussed before with the government increasing debt during an economic boom for the first time in our history. I think there was a good chance something would break, pandemic or not, as economies cycle. Hard to guess the timing of it.
 
PF5

PF5

Deputy
#37
Jan 3, 2014
2,148
528
743
#37
CocoCincinnati said:
I never thought trump's actions on covid were bad, actually thought they were good considering nobody knew what the hell was going on or what to expect. His mouth on the other hand was as bad as ever if not worse. Kept flipping and flopping, playing the blame game, acting like he knew better than everyone and just plain being a d!ck about it. It's not a mystery why he lost.

If you look at exit polling, covid was the #1 issue mentioned and the voters who listed it as most important overwhelmingly voted Biden. Voters that listed the economy most important went in favor of trump. Deserved or not, he would've got credit for a strong economy and it would have been strong if not for the pandemic.
Click to expand...
Screenshot 2022-06-13 8.45.32 AM.png

depends on which exit polls you look at...this one from nbc shows the economy was #1 issue, and covid #3, racial inequality was #2...trump did well with voters thinking the economy was most important, but not so with racial inequality and covid...which to me (personally) makes sense...he did well with economy, and poorly with covid response and race (this opens up a whole new can)...trumps biggest downfall was twitter/his mouth...maybe if twitter woulda banned him sooner.......lol
 
Cimarron

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
#39
Jun 28, 2007
54,656
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#39
Cody51 said:
How different would this world be if Obama would have delivered single payer healthcare, ended the war on terror, broken up the big banks and punished the architects of the Great Recession.
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Wasn't he the one supplying guns to drug cartels in Mexico and arms to terrorists in the middle east? Same guy, right?
 
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