USA...our country/government...good, bad, ugly

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PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
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Only in America...unF*&Kingbelievable...

Parkland shooting verdict: 'I'm as stunned as the day Luke was killed' bbc

The court was packed, but you could have heard a pin drop as victims waited for a verdict in the sentencing trial of the Parkland school gunman.
It was the culmination of nearly five years of trauma, as jurors decided whether the gunman should spend the rest of his life in prison or be put to death.
The panel of seven men and five women voted 17 times in all, once for each murdered victim. Each time, they spared Nikolas Cruz, 24, from death row.
For victims' families, who had hoped the decision would resemble some form of reconciliation after the brutal attack, the decision has left them aghast.
"I'm disgusted with our legal system. I'm disgusted with those jurors," said Ilan Marc Alhadeff.
His daughter Alyssa, 14, died in the attack along with 13 other children and three educators. A first-year student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, she had dreamed of one day playing on the US women's national football team.

"You set a precedent for the next mass killing - that nothing happens and you'll get life in jail," Mr Alhadeff added.

On each count, jurors acknowledged the crime that had been committed as well as how its brutal and premeditated nature warranted a death sentence for the gunman. But the defence team argued "mitigating circumstances" - including lifelong abuse and mental health disorders - outweighed the crime itself. The jury agreed.

Tom and Gena Hoyer lost their son, Luke, in the massacre and were present to hear his killer's fate.

"It's been a bad day. I'm as stunned as I was the day Luke was killed," Mr Hoyer told the BBC.
"I'm heartbroken, I'm stunned. I can't believe they gave a cold-blooded killer more mercy than the 17 victims he killed," Mrs Hoyer said.


Mr Hixon's widow Debra said: "What this verdict says to me is that [the gunman's] life meant more than the 17 that were murdered, the 17 [others] that were shot, and the thousands of people in that school and community that are traumatised every single day."

Fred Guttenberg told the BBC last year he "won't ever stop" fighting to honour his daughter Jaime's memory.
The 14-year-old's death has transformed Mr Guttenberg's life and he is now one of the most well-known advocates for gun control in the country.
"I was prepared for the rest of my life to seek justice," he said after the verdict. "And I could not be more disappointed in what happened today."
 

PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
2,129
527
743
something HAS to change in America!...maintaining the status quo ain't working!!!!!!!!

Police: Shooter, 15, kills 5 along North Carolina greenway apnews

“We must stop this mindless violence in America, we must address gun violence,” the mayor said. “We have much to do, and tonight we have much to mourn.”

The Raleigh shooting was the latest in a violent week across the country. Five people were killed Sunday in a shooting at a home in Inman, South Carolina. On Wednesday night two police officers were fatally shot in Connecticut after apparently being drawn into an ambush by an emergency call about possible domestic violence. Police officers have been shot this week in Greenville, Mississippi; Decatur, Illinois; Philadelphia, Las Vegas and central Florida. Two of those officers, one in Greenville and one Las Vegas, were killed.

Thursday’s violence was the 25th mass killing in 2022 in which the victims were fatally shot
, according to The Associated Press/USA TODAY/Northeastern University Mass Killings database. A mass killing is defined as when four or more people are killed excluding the perpetrator.
 

kenny41

Territorial Marshal
Aug 28, 2006
5,782
3,891
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OKC/Tulsa
I think it would be swell to have term limits set and the lengths of service changed to help with stability. It would also help if elections fell incongruent with the census to stymy gerrymandering.

Senators - 1 ten year term
House - 1 five year term
President - 2 five year terms
Supreme Court - appointed with a 15 year limit

People over 65 would be banned to run for federal elected office.
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
17,817
1,936
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Where else but Stillwater
But I certainly don't see much political demand with the voters for term limits for Congress people. For proof of what I mean Congressman Mullin promised terms limits for himself but didn't do it. He just kept running for reelection. Now he will move on to being senator. So, I wonder if he will like Inhofe be senator clear into his 80s. So far, from his political ads, he just thinks all you need to know about him is that he is very proud of his family. There is nothing wrong with being very proud of your family but has little to do with running for senator.
 

cableok

Territorial Marshal
Mar 11, 2006
5,116
2,619
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I am not offering any better solution, but I am not a fan of debates for elected positions.

PA Senate candidate John Fetterman's debate performance Tuesday may have been even worse that VP-candidate James Stockdale in 1992. It was strikingly horrible. I applaud Fetterman for being bold and debate in his medical condition, but his poor performance is probably going to cost him his lead and the PA Senate race could potentially be the deciding number for Senate control.

All that said --- I am not a huge fan of debates in terms of selecting a candidate for a national-level position. In these critical political positions, someone who is long-in-thought is not a bad thing. The way candidate think about an issue is what is important --- not how quickly they can articulate it.
In the PA case, even without Fetterman's medical condition he would have been at a considerable disadvantage compared to the media-savvy Dr. Oz. It is no wonder than Hobbs is not debating Kari Lake in AZ because Lake is a seasoned TV veteran who inherently should perform better than Hobbs. (frankly, Fetterman was given poor advice and should have chosen to opt-out of debates like the Hobbs camp is doing).

Personally, how the candidates stand on issues that are important to me is MUCH more important than the ability to generate a one-liner, quip, or snappy comeback in a debate. However, the media seems to just want to push quick sound-bites that they can spin into their desired viewpoint.
It would probably make debates more boring, but would rather have candidates just answer pre-determined specific questions that truly matter to the electorate.
 
Dec 18, 2019
678
144
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Central Oklahoma
I am not offering any better solution, but I am not a fan of debates for elected positions.

PA Senate candidate John Fetterman's debate performance Tuesday may have been even worse that VP-candidate James Stockdale in 1992. It was strikingly horrible. I applaud Fetterman for being bold and debate in his medical condition, but his poor performance is probably going to cost him his lead and the PA Senate race could potentially be the deciding number for Senate control.

All that said --- I am not a huge fan of debates in terms of selecting a candidate for a national-level position. In these critical political positions, someone who is long-in-thought is not a bad thing. The way candidate think about an issue is what is important --- not how quickly they can articulate it.
In the PA case, even without Fetterman's medical condition he would have been at a considerable disadvantage compared to the media-savvy Dr. Oz. It is no wonder than Hobbs is not debating Kari Lake in AZ because Lake is a seasoned TV veteran who inherently should perform better than Hobbs. (frankly, Fetterman was given poor advice and should have chosen to opt-out of debates like the Hobbs camp is doing).

Personally, how the candidates stand on issues that are important to me is MUCH more important than the ability to generate a one-liner, quip, or snappy comeback in a debate. However, the media seems to just want to push quick sound-bites that they can spin into their desired viewpoint.
It would probably make debates more boring, but would rather have candidates just answer pre-determined specific questions that truly matter to the electorate.
Should we end debate in both chambers of congress also?
 

PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
2,129
527
743
I am not offering any better solution, but I am not a fan of debates for elected positions.

PA Senate candidate John Fetterman's debate performance Tuesday may have been even worse that VP-candidate James Stockdale in 1992. It was strikingly horrible. I applaud Fetterman for being bold and debate in his medical condition, but his poor performance is probably going to cost him his lead and the PA Senate race could potentially be the deciding number for Senate control.

All that said --- I am not a huge fan of debates in terms of selecting a candidate for a national-level position. In these critical political positions, someone who is long-in-thought is not a bad thing. The way candidate think about an issue is what is important --- not how quickly they can articulate it.
In the PA case, even without Fetterman's medical condition he would have been at a considerable disadvantage compared to the media-savvy Dr. Oz. It is no wonder than Hobbs is not debating Kari Lake in AZ because Lake is a seasoned TV veteran who inherently should perform better than Hobbs. (frankly, Fetterman was given poor advice and should have chosen to opt-out of debates like the Hobbs camp is doing).

Personally, how the candidates stand on issues that are important to me is MUCH more important than the ability to generate a one-liner, quip, or snappy comeback in a debate. However, the media seems to just want to push quick sound-bites that they can spin into their desired viewpoint.
It would probably make debates more boring, but would rather have candidates just answer pre-determined specific questions that truly matter to the electorate.
I think they are important...most people who are decided will not change their minds regardless of how their person did in debates; but to me, debates help undecideds decide...most educated people can see through the 'dog and pony shows' and one liners, and see who actually tries to answer questions instead of sidestepping...
 

oks10

Federal Marshal
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Sep 9, 2007
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I think they are important...most people who are decided will not change their minds regardless of how their person did in debates; but to me, debates help undecideds decide...most educated people can see through the 'dog and pony shows' and one liners, and see who actually tries to answer questions instead of sidestepping...
Like our recent state superintendent debate... I think the sad part about that one is knowing that despite how ridiculous he was up there, there are people that are going to fully support him bc they've fallen for the fear tactics...
 

Duke Silver

Find safe haven in a warm bathtub full of my jazz.
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Like our recent state superintendent debate... I think the sad part about that one is knowing that despite how ridiculous he was up there, there are people that are going to fully support him bc they've fallen for the fear tactics...
That race sucks.
 

oks10

Federal Marshal
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Nelson is still kind of an unknown but at least during the debate she answered the questions she was asked. Walters just spent the hour on a right wing bender, spouting off every conservative talking point he could think of, most of which didn't even have anything to do with the question.
 
May 4, 2011
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Charleston, SC
I guess I don’t quite follow what you’re saying. Any debate on legislation should happen off camera where the public cannot watch it?
Yep. Lots of other ways to record what happened and it could still be open to the public/reporters. Ben Sasse most famously pointed out, but it's fairly well known that cameras in the chambers caused people to chase clips that make their respective news echo chambers. They fundraise off of it and it doesn't actually contribute to productive debate. Plus, cameras limit how much people different parties interact because they might, heaven forbid, catch you talking to "the enemy."
 
Dec 18, 2019
678
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42
Central Oklahoma
Yep. Lots of other ways to record what happened and it could still be open to the public/reporters. Ben Sasse most famously pointed out, but it's fairly well known that cameras in the chambers caused people to chase clips that make their respective news echo chambers. They fundraise off of it and it doesn't actually contribute to productive debate. Plus, cameras limit how much people different parties interact because they might, heaven forbid, catch you talking to "the enemy."
People will still make stupid comments and it will still end up on the evening cable news.
 

Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
40,300
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Stupid about AGW!!
all because a couple of VERY Powerful Lobby's spent tons of Money convincing the US Congress to pass legislation to Implement DST in order to increase the business and profitability odds for their industries.


https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1587867410543124481