TBP renovations?

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Aug 31, 2004
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Austin, TX
#61
Personally I don’t want one. It, in my opinion was a mistake for ou in football. They are no longer the big dog in their own conference and thus they will have less opportunity. Bama will continue to dominate and ou fans are not going to be happy loosing their position. Best thing that ever happened to us in my view. We are now in a very competitive conference with no clear front runner every year which means we have a major opportunity that we didn’t have prior. It would be a huge mistake to blot to the sec. Those who discount the position in football of the four new teams do so at their own folly. Those four have the potential to boost the conference to a stronger position than even with ou and Texas, not weaker. Yes it’s going to take about a decade for this to happen, but I honestly think it will. Yes the sec will still be the top dog, but the new big 12 will be right on its heels as it will also be with the big 10…pac and acc will bring up the rear in that order. Plus we now have the mental hurdle of ou gone…hopefully forever! Or at least until the meant aspect of bedlam is history. I’m actually excited for them to be gone to see what we can do and if we can beat these new forma-table teams who are joining us.
I don't really care either way, was just responding to another post. I agree with your assessment of conference strength. I feel like we are right there with the BIG as a #T2, or a solid #3, at worst, with the ACC and PAC bringing up the rear. Top to bottom, I don't think there's any question that the B12 has better football than the BIG, we just don't have an tOSU. The BIG is pretty top-heavy, and there are a lot of average to crappy teams. I think we'll be able to hold our own as a conference with anyone. I'm excited about the teams we're bringing in--great coaches, great fans, great resources. The B12 is in great shape.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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#62
You’re right about it being nice to be away from OU. However, not only will the new Big 12 not have a front runner, it won’t have any money either. Have to go to SEC and bite the bullet if the chance arises.
How can the city of Houston, the city of Cincinnati, the city of Orlando, and every Mormon on the face of the Earth not have "any money." OU and Texas are in the past, our conference is, seriously, the future. Neither OU nor Texas is going to win that conference consistently, one in 10 years at very best and I doubt that. We upgraded by losing their controlling ways and replacing them with up and commers.

Pre season top 25 Lindy's (based on future conference)
25. Texas...SEC
24. Kentucky...SEC
23. HOUSTON...Big 12
22. USC...PAC
21. CINCINNATI ...BIG 12
20. Michigan State...Big 10
19. BYU..Big 12
18. Wake..ACC
17. Ole Miss...SEC
16. Wisconsin...Big 10
15. NC State...ACC
14. Miami...ACC
13. Arkie...SEC
12. Baylor...Big 12
11. Oregon...PAC
10. UT Norman...SEC
9. Oklahoma State...Big 12
8. Notre Dame...Independent
7. Utah.. PAC
6. Michigan...Big 10
5. Texas A&M...SEC
4. Clemson...ACC
3. Georgia...SEC
2. Ohio State...Big 10
1. Bama..SEC

Pre-Season top 25 ranked teams 2022- Lindy's
SEC - 7
Big 12 - 5
Big 10 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC - 3

So in the power five the Big 12 would have five ranked teams, 2nd most of any conference.

Post-Season top 25 ranked teams 2021- ap
SEC (with ou) - 6
New Big 12 (without ou) - 5
Big 10 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC - 3

I honestly believe that we can be in better shape in this new conference than in the last one. It's not going to be any more a cake walk than was the Big 12...just ou is out of the way...and overall the conference is improved. I was excited when we added WVU and TCU...but honestly every single one of these teams has more upside than either of those. We are about to have an outstanding conference...already legit 2nd best in the country...that's going to bring money in droves. These four teams have been scary for a long time...now they have a power five conference to back them...sky's the limit for this league.
 
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Aug 31, 2004
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Austin, TX
#64
How can the city of Houston, the city of Cincinnati, The city of Orlando, and every Mormon on the face of the Earth not have "any money." OU and Texas are in the past, our conference is, seriously, the future. Neither OU nor Texas is going to win that conference consistently, one in 10 years at very best and I doubt that. We upgraded by losing their controlling ways and replacing them with up and commers.

Pre season top 25 Lindy's (based on future conference)
25. Texas...SEC
24. Kentucky...SEC
23. HOUSTON...Big 12
22. USC...PAC
21. CINCINNATI ...BIG 12
20. Michigan State...Big 10
19. BYU..Big 12
18. Wake..ACC
17. Ole Miss...SEC
16. Wisconsin...Big 10
15. NC State...ACC
14. Miami...ACC
13. Arkie...SEC
12. Baylor...Big 12
11. Oregon...PAC
10. UT Norman...SEC
9. Oklahoma State...Big 12
8. Notre Dame...Independent
7. Utah.. PAC
6. Michigan...Big 10
5. Texas A&M...SEC
4. Clemson...ACC
3. Georgia...SEC
2. Ohio State...Big 10
1. Bama..SEC

Pre-Season top 25 ranked teams 2022- Lindy's
SEC - 7
Big 12 - 5
Big 10 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC - 3

So in the power five the Big 12 would have five ranked teams, 2nd most of any conference.

Post-Season top 25 ranked teams 2021- ap
SEC (with ou) - 6
New Big 12 (without ou) - 5
Big 10 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC - 3

I honestly believe that we can be in better shape in this new conference than in the last one. It's not going to be any more a cake walk than was the Big 12...just ou is out of the way...and overall the conference is improved.
I think it boils down to losing two “blue bloods”—Texas sucking over the past decade notwithstanding—and replacing them with non- blue bloods—irrespective of the quality of football they’ve been playing. So, the B12 is being denigrated for that reason. Nevermind that Cincy was in the CFP, Houston, Baylor and OSU all won 12 games (including wins over SEC teams and ND.) I think the conference will be stronger across the board in football, and that will be apparent in a couple of years.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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#65
I think it boils down to losing two “blue bloods”—Texas sucking over the past decade notwithstanding—and replacing them with non- blue bloods—irrespective of the quality of football they’ve been playing. So, the B12 is being denigrated for that reason. Nevermind that Cincy was in the CFP, Houston, Baylor and OSU all won 12 games (including wins over SEC teams and ND.) I think the conference will be stronger across the board in football, and that will be apparent in a couple of years.
Agreed, except it's already apparent.
 
Sep 8, 2004
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Chicagoland
#66
I think it boils down to losing two “blue bloods”—Texas sucking over the past decade notwithstanding—and replacing them with non- blue bloods—irrespective of the quality of football they’ve been playing. So, the B12 is being denigrated for that reason. Nevermind that Cincy was in the CFP, Houston, Baylor and OSU all won 12 games (including wins over SEC teams and ND.) I think the conference will be stronger across the board in football, and that will be apparent in a couple of years.
Hope you’re right, but don’t underestimate the power of simply being a “blue blood.” OSU has been better than the horns for over a decade, even proving it on the field, and still can’t sniff the level of attention and money they receive. ND hasn’t won a national championship in over 30 years, but their star power hasn’t faded one bit. They still have an exclusive deal with NBC.

The new Big 12 will only be able to compete with the big boys monetarily if the power brokers and press decide they should be allowed to. Contrary to what others think, I don’t think winning is all it takes to make it big monetarily, otherwise Boise State would be ahead of us. Networks don’t seem to be very interested in up-and-comers; they seem to prefer the perceived established brands.

Every projection I’ve seen on here and elsewhere has the Big 12 taking a huge money hit once OU and UT leave, regardless of the teams coming in. Some liken it to a “nuclear winter.”

Now, if one of the members of the new Big 12 breaks through and wins a natty, things might change, but as the money gap widens, that will be less and less likely.
 
Nov 1, 2009
4,858
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Dallas
#67
How can the city of Houston, the city of Cincinnati, the city of Orlando, and every Mormon on the face of the Earth not have "any money." OU and Texas are in the past, our conference is, seriously, the future. Neither OU nor Texas is going to win that conference consistently, one in 10 years at very best and I doubt that. We upgraded by losing their controlling ways and replacing them with up and commers.

Pre season top 25 Lindy's (based on future conference)
25. Texas...SEC
24. Kentucky...SEC
23. HOUSTON...Big 12
22. USC...PAC
21. CINCINNATI ...BIG 12
20. Michigan State...Big 10
19. BYU..Big 12
18. Wake..ACC
17. Ole Miss...SEC
16. Wisconsin...Big 10
15. NC State...ACC
14. Miami...ACC
13. Arkie...SEC
12. Baylor...Big 12
11. Oregon...PAC
10. UT Norman...SEC
9. Oklahoma State...Big 12
8. Notre Dame...Independent
7. Utah.. PAC
6. Michigan...Big 10
5. Texas A&M...SEC
4. Clemson...ACC
3. Georgia...SEC
2. Ohio State...Big 10
1. Bama..SEC

Pre-Season top 25 ranked teams 2022- Lindy's
SEC - 7
Big 12 - 5
Big 10 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC - 3

So in the power five the Big 12 would have five ranked teams, 2nd most of any conference.

Post-Season top 25 ranked teams 2021- ap
SEC (with ou) - 6
New Big 12 (without ou) - 5
Big 10 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC - 3

I honestly believe that we can be in better shape in this new conference than in the last one. It's not going to be any more a cake walk than was the Big 12...just ou is out of the way...and overall the conference is improved. I was excited when we added WVU and TCU...but honestly every single one of these teams has more upside than either of those. We are about to have an outstanding conference...already legit 2nd best in the country...that's going to bring money in droves. These four teams have been scary for a long time...now they have a power five conference to back them...sky's the limit for this league.
? The conf ran through Norman over the past decade? I don’t think I need to pull up our record in those games. How will it not be easier? And be honest with yourself in that Texas is a scary matchup every year just based on their talent/size/depth. Maybe it’s just be but I’m not sold on the newbies until they prove themselves in a real deal conference (full regular season) - where would you think Cincy would’ve finished in the big 12 last year? Time will only tell and if we’re here to stay I hope I’m wrong.
 
Jan 14, 2006
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#68
Hope you’re right, but don’t underestimate the power of simply being a “blue blood.” OSU has been better than the horns for over a decade, even proving it on the field, and still can’t sniff the level of attention and money they receive. ND hasn’t won a national championship in over 30 years, but their star power hasn’t faded one bit. They still have an exclusive deal with NBC.

The new Big 12 will only be able to compete with the big boys monetarily if the power brokers and press decide they should be allowed to. Contrary to what others think, I don’t think winning is all it takes to make it big monetarily, otherwise Boise State would be ahead of us. Networks don’t seem to be very interested in up-and-comers; they seem to prefer the perceived established brands.

Every projection I’ve seen on here and elsewhere has the Big 12 taking a huge money hit once OU and UT leave, regardless of the teams coming in. Some liken it to a “nuclear winter.”

Now, if one of the members of the new Big 12 breaks through and wins a natty, things might change, but as the money gap widens, that will be less and less likely.
If one of the new Big 12 breaks through and wins it all, they will be the first one scooped up. Hopefully it's us.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
27,087
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Earth
#70
If one of the new Big 12 breaks through and wins it all, they will be the first one scooped up. Hopefully it's us.
I sincerely hate the SEC and hope we never join that conference. Would I still be a fan of Oklahoma State? Sure, but at what cost. Think about this, OU is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to compete for the top of the SEC every year like they had in the Big 12...their brand is not going to move up, it's going to move down. This opportunity is GOLDEN for Oklahoma State University. I'm excited about it.
 
Jan 14, 2006
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#72
I sincerely hate the SEC and hope we never join that conference. Would I still be a fan of Oklahoma State? Sure, but at what cost. Think about this, OU is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to compete for the top of the SEC every year like they had in the Big 12...their brand is not going to move up, it's going to move down. This opportunity is GOLDEN for Oklahoma State University. I'm excited about it.
Love your posts but completely disagree.

ATM has maintained the same level of success, OU will too, only with a bigger budget.

If we're stuck in the Big 12 in 5 years, our entire athletic department will suffer and we'llbe left behind. But with our ability to develop talent and an SEC budget we we'd be a force.
 
Nov 1, 2009
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Dallas
#73
Love your posts but completely disagree.

ATM has maintained the same level of success, OU will too, only with a bigger budget.

If we're stuck in the Big 12 in 5 years, our entire athletic department will suffer and we'llbe left behind. But with our ability to develop talent and an SEC budget we we'd be a force.
I agree. It’s delusional to think ou won’t compete for conf titles in the sec. Additionally, to say so Makes the sec appear superior - isn’t the sec overrated? Which is it? Not sure on the thinking behind that take.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#74
I agree. It’s delusional to think ou won’t compete for conf titles in the sec. Additionally, to say so Makes the sec appear superior - isn’t the sec overrated? Which is it? Not sure on the thinking behind that take.
When it comes to producing NFL draft picks the SEC is superior. And since 2000 it is vastly superior to the Big12.

Bama, LSU, FL & GA all in top 10. UO comes in at 9. Couple more SEC schools in top 20 then TX at 20. Next Big12 school is TCU at 36.

UO will still win. But the advantage they have in talent over their conference peers (and it’s by a huge margin the likes of which no other conf blue blood has) is gone. Not to mention the only conf member close to them in talent they play on a neutral field.

Those advantages are gone in the SEC. And then when you compare talent on SEC teams ranked 5-8 in the conf vs the same teams in the Big12 based on draft picks it’s ridiculous how much better the SEC is.

since 2000 the teams ranked 5-8 in terms of # of draft picks from the SEC (counting UO & TX) have a combined 330 draft picks. The Big12 that # is 148.
 
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Aug 28, 2009
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#75
ATM has maintained the same level of success, OU will too, only with a bigger budget.
If you define success as not winning your conference then sure. They were a mid tier program here and they are a mid tier program in the SEC now. Sure they won a recruiting title this offseason. But they’ll find a way to turn that into a 3rd or 4th place finish in the SEC at best. It’s what they do. Nobody does less with more than UT/A&M.
 

superpoke

Territorial Marshal
Jun 28, 2005
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Orange Country USA
#76
Hope you’re right, but don’t underestimate the power of simply being a “blue blood.” OSU has been better than the horns for over a decade, even proving it on the field, and still can’t sniff the level of attention and money they receive. ND hasn’t won a national championship in over 30 years, but their star power hasn’t faded one bit. They still have an exclusive deal with NBC.

The new Big 12 will only be able to compete with the big boys monetarily if the power brokers and press decide they should be allowed to. Contrary to what others think, I don’t think winning is all it takes to make it big monetarily, otherwise Boise State would be ahead of us. Networks don’t seem to be very interested in up-and-comers; they seem to prefer the perceived established brands.

Every projection I’ve seen on here and elsewhere has the Big 12 taking a huge money hit once OU and UT leave, regardless of the teams coming in. Some liken it to a “nuclear winter.”

Now, if one of the members of the new Big 12 breaks through and wins a natty, things might change, but as the money gap widens, that will be less and less likely.
Bingo. Just because the Big 12 is bringing in four currently-competitive football teams doesn't mean broadcasters and playoff selectors are going to consider the league in the same way.

And outside of football, only BYU is ready to pull its weight in a major conference. The others have a lot of work to do. That's going to hurt the all-around perception of the conference as well.
 
Aug 13, 2005
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OKC
#77
In Stillwater many summer camps are happening now but they aren’t really using OSU team facilities but are using intramural.

I gather this is due to upgrades happening now. APR does not look like any summer tournaments going on this summer either.

My guess they will bulldoze both APR and women’s softball facility and add new updated softball facility and improved parking in that area. I don’t know why APR could not be renovated for a 2000 seat Softball facility and the old facility could be made into parking.

With many of the students moving off campus and many empty dorms rooms my guess is Bennett may be the next dorm to be closed and bulldozed.
 
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Jul 5, 2020
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Broken Arrow
#78
In Stillwater many summer camps are happening now but they aren’t really using OSU team facilities but are using intramural.

I gather this is due to upgrades happening now. APR does not look like any summer tournaments going on this summer either.

My guess they will bulldoze both APR and women’s softball facility and add new updated softball facility and improved parking in that area. I don’t know why APR could not be renovated for a 2000 seat Softball facility and the old facility could be made into parking.

With many of the students moving off campus and many empty dorms rooms my guess is Bennett may be the next dorm to be closed and bulldozed.
Probably same reason that Lewis Field wasn't renovated, but also because dozing it would provide much more flexibility on efficient use of the new space. Besides, it's a 41 year old facility and sometimes it's best just to start over. Are they still planning for a parking garage on the Kerr-Drummond site?
 

O-St8

Orange is power.
A/V Subscriber
Jan 13, 2005
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Sand Springs, OK
#79
Yeah, if you slash your ticket prices you probably will sell more tickets, but then you also slash your revenue. Ticket offices actually do a lot of research to find the prices that sell the most tickets as well as maximize revenue. You can run specials to get rid of unsold visitor section tickets, but if you start cutting down prices to sell unsold seats in other sections you're going to devalue your product and anger your current customers.
Again I'm not a financial guru. So I don't know how much you would have to charge to at least break even. But if the upper deck adds 20K seats and each ticket is $30 (if it's in a season ticket package) thats $600K per game. I HAVE to believe that you could operate an upper deck for way less than that per game.

Even if we hover around the 94-96% capacity like we have been...having 71K sounds and looks a lot better than 53K. And if it makes $200K per game...that's still ~1.2mm over the season.

And I actually propose that the upper deck would likely sell out every game and we'd still have the same gaps we have now so our overall % capacity would be better than it is now.
 
Aug 7, 2006
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#80
Again I'm not a financial guru. So I don't know how much you would have to charge to at least break even. But if the upper deck adds 20K seats and each ticket is $30 (if it's in a season ticket package) thats $600K per game. I HAVE to believe that you could operate an upper deck for way less than that per game.

Even if we hover around the 94-96% capacity like we have been...having 71K sounds and looks a lot better than 53K. And if it makes $200K per game...that's still ~1.2mm over the season.

And I actually propose that the upper deck would likely sell out every game and we'd still have the same gaps we have now so our overall % capacity would be better than it is now.
You don't have to be a financial guru to understand that adding seats without the demand isn't a smart decision. I mean, we aren't reducing the capacity just for fun.