Student Loan Cancellation Sets Up Clash Between Biden and the Left

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Cimarron

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And sucks for those of us that paid off our student loans even when it was a struggle.

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If I read the article correctly all of the student loans the bank cancelled were in default.

These liberal policies punish the people who do the right thing!!!! It's dragging this country down, and surprise.... the liberal solution will be more rules, laws, and taxes!!!! Liberal policies are an erosion of accountability!!
 

gundysburner

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If I read the article correctly all of the student loans the bank cancelled were in default.

These liberal policies punish the people who do the right thing!!!! It's dragging this country down, and surprise.... the liberal solution will be more rules, laws, and taxes!!!! Liberal policies are an erosion of accountability!!
Yes, but hey, you feel better about things, right?
 
Jul 5, 2020
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If I read the article correctly all of the student loans the bank cancelled were in default.

These liberal policies punish the people who do the right thing!!!! It's dragging this country down, and surprise.... the liberal solution will be more rules, laws, and taxes!!!! Liberal policies are an erosion of accountability!!
So can we assume the IRS will send these favored recipients of the cancellation a 1099 or something similar for taxes due on this new benefit?
 

PF5

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I have paid off student loans, put three kids through college, and have no problem seeing student loan debts forgiven...why get upset with helping kids get out of starting out 'life' in heavy debt?...I get the argument of, 'well, I had to pay for school, student loan debts, etc.' but why should we continue this cycle of overpriced college education?
 

steross

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I have paid off student loans, put three kids through college, and have no problem seeing student loan debts forgiven...why get upset with helping kids get out of starting out 'life' in heavy debt?...I get the argument of, 'well, I had to pay for school, student loan debts, etc.' but why should we continue this cycle of overpriced college education?
I wouldn't necessarily have a huge issue with some sort of current loan forgiveness but only if it was tied to a fundamental change in the financing of education. The reason that 20-year-olds have $300K in debt is that somehow we have let the cost of sitting in a building listening to an old man or woman pontificate increase to 10s of thousands of dollars a year. And, the reason it is so overpriced is the easy availability of government-backed loans. Without fixing that situation, forgiving debt would be idiotic.

I mostly took out a time loan not a monetary loan and missed my kids learning to walk while paying back my time debt overseas. While I completely get the "I paid my loans back," the vast majority of us saying that paid back loans that were far more realistic with the age/income/etc than they are now.

It is just like the housing crisis when strawberry pickers were buying $875K houses. When it crashed they handed the keys back and walked away. Really, it shouldn't be that easy. But, in that crazy situation, it was probably appropriate. Just like that, we need to correct the entire situation, not just forgive the loans.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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I have paid off student loans, put three kids through college, and have no problem seeing student loan debts forgiven...why get upset with helping kids get out of starting out 'life' in heavy debt?...I get the argument of, 'well, I had to pay for school, student loan debts, etc.' but why should we continue this cycle of overpriced college education?
Is the next step “I have paid off my mortgage, my kids have paid off their mortgage..Why get upset with helping people get out of starting out life in debt and pay off their mortgage?” Or replace that with “credit card debt”.

Loans are obligations. In this case the government (me, you, our neighbors) helped fund an opportunity for someone to better themself and put them in a place to make more money. The person who took out the loan has an obligation and forgetting that obligation does nothing to further society.
 
May 21, 2007
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I wouldn't necessarily have a huge issue with some sort of current loan forgiveness but only if it was tied to a fundamental change in the financing of education. The reason that 20-year-olds have $300K in debt is that somehow we have let the cost of sitting in a building listening to an old man or woman pontificate increase to 10s of thousands of dollars a year. And, the reason it is so overpriced is the easy availability of government-backed loans. Without fixing that situation, forgiving debt would be idiotic.

I mostly took out a time loan not a monetary loan and missed my kids learning to walk while paying back my time debt overseas. While I completely get the "I paid my loans back," the vast majority of us saying that paid back loans that were far more realistic with the age/income/etc than they are now.

It is just like the housing crisis when strawberry pickers were buying $875K houses. When it crashed they handed the keys back and walked away. Really, it shouldn't be that easy. But, in that crazy situation, it was probably appropriate. Just like that, we need to correct the entire situation, not just forgive the loans.
I agree with all of this!
 

gundysburner

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I have paid off student loans, put three kids through college, and have no problem seeing student loan debts forgiven...why get upset with helping kids get out of starting out 'life' in heavy debt?...I get the argument of, 'well, I had to pay for school, student loan debts, etc.' but why should we continue this cycle of overpriced college education?
Steross laid it out well.

My concern with this is setting a precedent here of loan forgiveness, while doing nothing about the skyrocketing educational costs.

That's not fixing any problem.
 

steross

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Is the next step “I have paid off my mortgage, my kids have paid off their mortgage..Why get upset with helping people get out of starting out life in debt and pay off their mortgage?” Or replace that with “credit card debt”.

Loans are obligations. In this case the government (me, you, our neighbors) helped fund an opportunity for someone to better themself and put them in a place to make more money. The person who took out the loan has an obligation and forgetting that obligation does nothing to further society.
While all true, we generally have societal rules that prevent the ignorant (used to mean lacking knowledge, not necessarily stupid) from being taken advantage of. Look at all of the steps to buying a house and the qualifications required. Look at the laws against loan sharks and usury.

Yet, we take kids in high school. From the moment they start school, we teach them to compete with grades, extracurricular activities, and testing to prove that they can get into colleges. When they make it to college we congratulate them as if they have won something. I was driving in Compton, Ca and they had large pictures of each high schooler going to college on individual streetlights like they were war heroes or something. Generally, the more expensive the school, the more the young adult is congratulated.

As a society, we do this outwardly to young people, then quietly have them take out loans for the future with no real concept or life experience to be able to know that they will be able to pay it back. We already know that the adolescent brain does not comprehend long-term threats as well as we do later in life. Despite being our least experienced adults, they get far less consumer protection than the person running up credit card debt buying purses, phones, or jewelry or not paying their mortgage. We don't trust them with a beer, but we think they can take out hundreds of thousands in long-term loans without income and obligate them forever unlike other debts that can be vanquished.

There is a societal obligation to our young adults that is an abject failure that is far more apparent than the individual failures of young people who are trying hard to do their best in the situation that our government, universities, parents, and financial corporations have set up. We need to fix the system.
 
Jul 5, 2020
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I wouldn't necessarily have a huge issue with some sort of current loan forgiveness but only if it was tied to a fundamental change in the financing of education. The reason that 20-year-olds have $300K in debt is that somehow we have let the cost of sitting in a building listening to an old man or woman pontificate increase to 10s of thousands of dollars a year. And, the reason it is so overpriced is the easy availability of government-backed loans. Without fixing that situation, forgiving debt would be idiotic.

I mostly took out a time loan not a monetary loan and missed my kids learning to walk while paying back my time debt overseas. While I completely get the "I paid my loans back," the vast majority of us saying that paid back loans that were far more realistic with the age/income/etc than they are now.

It is just like the housing crisis when strawberry pickers were buying $875K houses. When it crashed they handed the keys back and walked away. Really, it shouldn't be that easy. But, in that crazy situation, it was probably appropriate. Just like that, we need to correct the entire situation, not just forgive the loans.
Unfortunately that’s where we’ve digressed to as a society, when the lowering of expectations and “hand out” becomes an expected solution rather than an often unexpected hand up.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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While all true, we generally have societal rules that prevent the ignorant (used to mean lacking knowledge, not necessarily stupid) from being taken advantage of. Look at all of the steps to buying a house and the qualifications required. Look at the laws against loan sharks and usury.

Yet, we take kids in high school. From the moment they start school, we teach them to compete with grades, extracurricular activities, and testing to prove that they can get into colleges. When they make it to college we congratulate them as if they have won something. I was driving in Compton, Ca and they had large pictures of each high schooler going to college on individual streetlights like they were war heroes or something. Generally, the more expensive the school, the more the young adult is congratulated.

As a society, we do this outwardly to young people, then quietly have them take out loans for the future with no real concept or life experience to be able to know that they will be able to pay it back. We already know that the adolescent brain does not comprehend long-term threats as well as we do later in life. Despite being our least experienced adults, they get far less consumer protection than the person running up credit card debt buying purses, phones, or jewelry or not paying their mortgage. We don't trust them with a beer, but we think they can take out hundreds of thousands in long-term loans without income and obligate them forever unlike other debts that can be vanquished.

There is a societal obligation to our young adults that is an abject failure that is far more apparent than the individual failures of young people who are trying hard to do their best in the situation that our government, universities, parents, and financial corporations have set up. We need to fix the system.
I think we are probably closer to agreement than disagreement on this issue.
I don’t dispute that we need to look at further reforms and more specifically create avenues for those without financial means to gain access to secondary education. For the most part, we do that. And in some cases we do that well. For instance, in eastern Oklahoma those students w/o financial means can attend a two-year community course, as well as trade classes, for free.

Can we do more? Sure. But canceling debt already incurred is not remotely equitable and certainly not just.

I also don’t dispute that there are some college debtors that don’t have the means to repay their loans. For those, there are also ways for them to get the debt extended. Certainly college drop-out default on their loans at a much higher rate than graduates. It also should be noted that the vast amount of student loans (90%+) are under $100K.

Interestingly. Forbes did a study that indicates that borrowers place paying off their college debt at a much lower priority than buying a car, a house, groceries (that one is understandable), but also saving for retirement, vacations, health club membership, and other obligations.

Biden deserves credit for holding the line against the progressives in his base on this issue.
 
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steross

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I think we are probably closer to agreement than disagreement on this issue.
I don’t dispute that we need to look at further reforms and more specifically create avenues for those without financial means to gain access to secondary education. For the most part, we do that. And in some cases we do that well. For instance, in eastern Oklahoma those students w/o financial means can attend a two-year community course, as well as trade classes, for free.
Yes, free community college is great.
This is sort of the issue I am talking about with societal expectations causing kids to make poor financial decisions.

For example:
18 yo kid saves some money from working after school and gets a low-interest loan and is able to buy a slightly used Toyota. Most would tell him that is a good thing and congratulate him.
Same kid does the same thing and is able to go to community college, he would get the same response.

Different kid works after school and saves enough money to barely get a high-interest long-term loan to buy a Porsche 911. The loan is over many years and he thinks he can work enough to pay it off eventually. People would tell him he is crazy.
Same kid works after school for a little money but studies hard and gets accepted to University of Chicago at $81K a year to study Anthropology as that is his interest. While financially crazy, people would congratulate him for getting into such a great college and he would get loans.

I'm not saying that the individual bears no responsibility nor that we should just forgive the crazy loans and call it all good. But, there needs to be a mechanism in the system to qualify and someone needs to be financially responsible other than an 18-year-old kid or the endless pockets of Uncle Sam when stupid loans occur.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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I have paid off student loans, put three kids through college, and have no problem seeing student loan debts forgiven...why get upset with helping kids get out of starting out 'life' in heavy debt?...I get the argument of, 'well, I had to pay for school, student loan debts, etc.' but why should we continue this cycle of overpriced college education?
Paying it off doesn't fix the cycle of debt, likely makes it worse. And it erodes accountability. More people will simply line up expecting more handouts, and not just for student loans. Eventually, there is no one left to give the handouts. What happens then?

Fix the problem, don't kick the can down the road and act like something good has been accomplished.
 
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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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I have paid off student loans, put three kids through college, and have no problem seeing student loan debts forgiven...why get upset with helping kids get out of starting out 'life' in heavy debt?...I get the argument of, 'well, I had to pay for school, student loan debts, etc.' but why should we continue this cycle of overpriced college education?
Because many of them wanting their debt paid can't get jobs because they chose silly majors that don't pay well, IF they can find a job.

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wrenhal

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Is the next step “I have paid off my mortgage, my kids have paid off their mortgage..Why get upset with helping people get out of starting out life in debt and pay off their mortgage?” Or replace that with “credit card debt”.

Loans are obligations. In this case the government (me, you, our neighbors) helped fund an opportunity for someone to better themself and put them in a place to make more money. The person who took out the loan has an obligation and forgetting that obligation does nothing to further society.
While all true, we generally have societal rules that prevent the ignorant (used to mean lacking knowledge, not necessarily stupid) from being taken advantage of. Look at all of the steps to buying a house and the qualifications required. Look at the laws against loan sharks and usury.

Yet, we take kids in high school. From the moment they start school, we teach them to compete with grades, extracurricular activities, and testing to prove that they can get into colleges. When they make it to college we congratulate them as if they have won something. I was driving in Compton, Ca and they had large pictures of each high schooler going to college on individual streetlights like they were war heroes or something. Generally, the more expensive the school, the more the young adult is congratulated.

As a society, we do this outwardly to young people, then quietly have them take out loans for the future with no real concept or life experience to be able to know that they will be able to pay it back. We already know that the adolescent brain does not comprehend long-term threats as well as we do later in life. Despite being our least experienced adults, they get far less consumer protection than the person running up credit card debt buying purses, phones, or jewelry or not paying their mortgage. We don't trust them with a beer, but we think they can take out hundreds of thousands in long-term loans without income and obligate them forever unlike other debts that can be vanquished.

There is a societal obligation to our young adults that is an abject failure that is far more apparent than the individual failures of young people who are trying hard to do their best in the situation that our government, universities, parents, and financial corporations have set up. We need to fix the system.
This isn't an abject failure of high school kids and an abject failure of society in general. The government has stepped its foot in this and caused a whole big humongous problem. But where's the ridicule, I will say honestly, of parents who don't teach the children about finding degrees and/or jobs to pay back those loans or not going to college if they don't have to because they could be better off finding a trade at a votech and making tons of money with almost no debt?

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steross

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This isn't an abject failure of high school kids and an abject failure of society in general. The government has stepped its foot in this and caused a whole big humongous problem. But where's the ridicule, I will say honestly, of parents who don't teach the children about finding degrees and/or jobs to pay back those loans or not going to college if they don't have to because they could be better off finding a trade at a votech and making tons of money with almost no debt?

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Yes, it is.
We live in a democratic republic. Who other than our society put the government in place that you want to blame for all of the ills of our society?
And, I detailed all of the ways that we as a society play a part most of which is not forced on us by the government. Having lived in Australia and seeing how differently the citizens treat kids going to TAFE (votech) or skilled trades shows me that it isn't just specific parents and government. It is us.

Sorry, kicking back and playing the "it's the gubmit's fault" is an attempt to kick responsibility to others instead of wanting to be a part of the fix. You obviously can claim it, but I'm not going to agree with you.