Student Loan Cancellation Sets Up Clash Between Biden and the Left

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cowboyinexile

Have some class
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It looks to me like our government has pumped at least $10 trillion into this pandemic (likely closer to double that). With 400k ? dead that computes to about $25 million per death. Mind blowing mismanagement and it will go down as one of the most colossal failures in history.
Where are you getting $10-$20 trillion? I would agree that the amount of money spent on this has been excessive. We would probably agree to disagree if it has been appropriate. But that kind of money is more than the world's economic output.

According to what has been published we've spent a third of your minimum estimate (which is mind boggling) and still have hundreds of billions that haven't been appropriated yet. The next package is being debated but even if the Republicans cave its still half of your estimate.

I don't want to be a jerk to you and my apologies if this comes across that way but I don’t see how your numbers add up.
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Here’s an idea. How about we start holding people accountable again. If you take out a loan pay the damn thing back. If you break the law pay the penalty and accept the consequences. If a cop orders you to stop how about ya just friggin’ stop. We have a bunch of people that took loans out to finance a crappy degree given to them by an institution (the government) that has no concept of how finance works. I played no part and had no say in this fraudulent transaction and you’ll have to forgive me for my reluctance to help them cure their mistake. It’s beyond insane.
It looks to me like our government has pumped at least $10 trillion into this pandemic (likely closer to double that). With 400k ? dead that computes to about $25 million per death. Mind blowing mismanagement and it will go down as one of the most colossal failures in history.
Oh good....somebody's new sock account.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Cost of schools is the biggest issue.

The increased acceptance for student loans has allowed schools to increase the cost without suffering lower attendance.

I was a Freshman in 1988. I don't remember the details, but it was a big deal when they started increasing the tuition and it went up every year I was there. Everyone was talking about it. OSU's stance was, we hadn't raised tuition in "X" years. Now it isn't even big news, like it was then.

28 years later, my daughter went to OSU for one year and then decided it wasn't worth the cost and finished at Texas Woman's University. Her money, her choice. Finished in 4 years and a significant amount of her loans are from the 1 year at OSU.

Tuition just keeps going up and up nationwide.
 

OSUCowboy787

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Cost of schools is the biggest issue.

The increased acceptance for student loans has allowed schools to increase the cost without suffering lower attendance.

I was a Freshman in 1988. I don't remember the details, but it was a big deal when they started increasing the tuition and it went up every year I was there. Everyone was talking about it. OSU's stance was, we hadn't raised tuition in "X" years. Now it isn't even big news, like it was then.

28 years later, my daughter went to OSU for one year and then decided it wasn't worth the cost and finished at Texas Woman's University. Her money, her choice. Finished in 4 years and a significant amount of her loans are from the 1 year at OSU.

Tuition just keeps going up and up nationwide.
Gotta keep up with the Joneses! Also since football wasn't as lucrative this year they have to make up those deficits somehow. They will just sneak things in as 'fees' so that they can say tuition isn't that high. But have a $500 covid fee in perpetuity. Probably claim its for deep cleaning buildings or something.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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Cost of schools is the biggest issue.

The increased acceptance for student loans has allowed schools to increase the cost without suffering lower attendance.

I was a Freshman in 1988. I don't remember the details, but it was a big deal when they started increasing the tuition and it went up every year I was there. Everyone was talking about it. OSU's stance was, we hadn't raised tuition in "X" years. Now it isn't even big news, like it was then.

28 years later, my daughter went to OSU for one year and then decided it wasn't worth the cost and finished at Texas Woman's University. Her money, her choice. Finished in 4 years and a significant amount of her loans are from the 1 year at OSU.

Tuition just keeps going up and up nationwide.
This, & fees have continually been tacked on in addition to tuition.

By your post, we started at OSU the same year. I just remember some pretty serious limits on the loans I could get, which I'm definitely thankful for. I would've definitely taken out more in loans at that time if it were available to me.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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My son owes quite a bit in college loans and thinks this 50k thing devalues his education and doesn't want it to happen. He actually called into the Rick Roberts' Show (WBAP-Dallas) and expressed his views on it. I'm proud of him.
Hmmmm, I don't know if it devalues his education, imo. The education & subsequent skills & knowledge are what they are, regardless of who paid for them, right?
 
Jan 13, 2008
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This, & fees have continually been tacked on in addition to tuition.

By your post, we started at OSU the same year. I just remember some pretty serious limits on the loans I could get, which I'm definitely thankful for. I would've definitely taken out more in loans at that time if it were available to me.
I worked about 20 hours per week the entire time I was in college. Student Union Bookstore and Stillwater Designs (Kicker). Couldn't afford it without the jobs.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Hmmmm, I don't know if it devalues his education, imo. The education & subsequent skills & knowledge are what they are, regardless of who paid for them, right?
Yes, on the education/skills/knowledge.

However it discounts the sacrifices he made to achieve his degree. The financial investment: Loans he is committed to repaying and working full-time during his last 3 years of school.

They were not the easiest jobs. Asst GM for one of the largest U-Hauls in the DFW area, where he actually functioned as the GM for multiple months and trained a couple of new GM's (some washed out). Later he was a Shift Manager at an Aldi (30 minutes closer to home).

Plus, I think it sets a precedent going forward and an entitlement of $50k to everyone.
 

Donnyboy

Lettin' the high times carry the low....
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The government already provides a path to both vocational training and college tuition while earning a salary. No one takes the military option because borrowing huge amounts of money for degrees that the market doesn’t value is much much easier.
 

Birry

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Cost of schools is the biggest issue.

The increased acceptance for student loans has allowed schools to increase the cost without suffering lower attendance.

I was a Freshman in 1988. I don't remember the details, but it was a big deal when they started increasing the tuition and it went up every year I was there. Everyone was talking about it. OSU's stance was, we hadn't raised tuition in "X" years. Now it isn't even big news, like it was then.

28 years later, my daughter went to OSU for one year and then decided it wasn't worth the cost and finished at Texas Woman's University. Her money, her choice. Finished in 4 years and a significant amount of her loans are from the 1 year at OSU.

Tuition just keeps going up and up nationwide.
Schools aren't the problem.

The government is giving them all blank checks and simultaneously requiring admissions for people that likely shouldn't be in college. They also don't cap the loan amount per earning potential of degrees. So you have school teachers, artists, and other low-paying careers complaining about their $100,000+ loan amounts when they make $35k/yr. It's asinine.

I read an article recently that was pro-forgiveness (re-distribution). It detailed the plight of a young writer who wrote for a video game blogging website. He was complaining that he left school with over $150,000 in debt, and now, unbelievably, he has no way to ever hope to pay it back. He supports forgiveness, but said he owes so much that $10k wouldn't be enough for him to care. He want on to say that he's mostly concerned for his mother, who owes $100,000 of that $150,000, and he only owes $50k of it. So...............he gave up paying on the loans, because he had "no hope" of ever paying it off, even with forgiveness. My opinion is that he and his mother 100% deserve to be saddled with that debt due to their choices. Keep in mind - he went to a high-level school on the West Coast, so it's not like it was some predatory online school. The guy was obviously capable enough to obtain a degree from a major university. In other words - he was capable of understand the basics of loans and interest. My question: How does the government even approve a blog writer to get a loan of that amount????

I'll post the article referenced above if I can find it again, but I can't find it right now.

Take away the infinite, free money, and colleges would have to lower their costs to survive. It's common sense. At least put some kind of cap on how much can be loaned or make a degree program justify their costs with the economics of the real world.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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Schools aren't the problem.

The government is giving them all blank checks and simultaneously requiring admissions for people that likely shouldn't be in college. They also don't cap the loan amount per earning potential of degrees. So you have school teachers, artists, and other low-paying careers complaining about their $100,000+ loan amounts when they make $35k/yr. It's asinine.

I read an article recently that was pro-forgiveness (re-distribution). It detailed the plight of a young writer who wrote for a video game blogging website. He was complaining that he left school with over $150,000 in debt, and now, unbelievably, he has no way to ever hope to pay it back. He supports forgiveness, but said he owes so much that $10k wouldn't be enough for him to care. He want on to say that he's mostly concerned for his mother, who owes $100,000 of that $150,000, and he only owes $50k of it. So...............he gave up paying on the loans, because he had "no hope" of ever paying it off, even with forgiveness. My opinion is that he and his mother 100% deserve to be saddled with that debt due to their choices. Keep in mind - he went to a high-level school on the West Coast, so it's not like it was some predatory online school. The guy was obviously capable enough to obtain a degree from a major university. In other words - he was capable of understand the basics of loans and interest. My question: How does the government even approve a blog writer to get a loan of that amount????

I'll post the article referenced above if I can find it again, but I can't find it right now.

Take away the infinite, free money, and colleges would have to lower their costs to survive. It's common sense. At least put some kind of cap on how much can be loaned or make a degree program justify their costs with the economics of the real world.[/QUOTE]

As we collectively kick around ideas of what to do about this situation, it seems reasonable to attach caps to projected earnings. Every other loan a person gets is done this way, why not the same for education loans?

I don't know what you do when someone changes majors multiple times, but it does seem reasonable to implement a more common sense approach here. As I said earlier, I'll be the first to say that I would have taken more money out in loans at that age if it were available to me.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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Where are you getting $10-$20 trillion? I would agree that the amount of money spent on this has been excessive. We would probably agree to disagree if it has been appropriate. But that kind of money is more than the world's economic output.

According to what has been published we've spent a third of your minimum estimate (which is mind boggling) and still have hundreds of billions that haven't been appropriated yet. The next package is being debated but even if the Republicans cave its still half of your estimate.

I don't want to be a jerk to you and my apologies if this comes across that way but I don’t see how your numbers add up.
No worries. I got my number from The Committee For a Responsible Budget covid tracker. They estimate $10.5 trillion approved. You are right that a portion of that has not been appropriated as of yet. I don't think they have Biden's new package in their number yet.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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I guess we have to decide how much a life is worth right? I'm not claiming to know the answer to that but insurance companies make that decision every day and I'm fairly certain that my insurance company won't spend $25 million to save me. I'm skeptical as to the accuracy of the 400k number as well.
 
Jan 13, 2008
1,306
483
1,713
Corinth, TX & Graz, Austria
Schools aren't the problem.

The government is giving them all blank checks and simultaneously requiring admissions for people that likely shouldn't be in college. They also don't cap the loan amount per earning potential of degrees. So you have school teachers, artists, and other low-paying careers complaining about their $100,000+ loan amounts when they make $35k/yr. It's asinine.

I read an article recently that was pro-forgiveness (re-distribution). It detailed the plight of a young writer who wrote for a video game blogging website. He was complaining that he left school with over $150,000 in debt, and now, unbelievably, he has no way to ever hope to pay it back. He supports forgiveness, but said he owes so much that $10k wouldn't be enough for him to care. He want on to say that he's mostly concerned for his mother, who owes $100,000 of that $150,000, and he only owes $50k of it. So...............he gave up paying on the loans, because he had "no hope" of ever paying it off, even with forgiveness. My opinion is that he and his mother 100% deserve to be saddled with that debt due to their choices. Keep in mind - he went to a high-level school on the West Coast, so it's not like it was some predatory online school. The guy was obviously capable enough to obtain a degree from a major university. In other words - he was capable of understand the basics of loans and interest. My question: How does the government even approve a blog writer to get a loan of that amount????

I'll post the article referenced above if I can find it again, but I can't find it right now.

Take away the infinite, free money, and colleges would have to lower their costs to survive. It's common sense. At least put some kind of cap on how much can be loaned or make a degree program justify their costs with the economics of the real world.
I guess you didn't read what I wrote, specifically the 2nd sentence. Or I poorly explained it.

From my original post:
"The increased acceptance for student loans has allowed schools to increase the cost without suffering lower attendance."

This is the blank checks that the Government is giving the students, which allows schools to increase tuition because a larger pool of students will get blank checks and they will continue to get students. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well, but we are both on the same side of this topic.

I do like how you mentioned loan amounts should be related to career path. Even as an Electrical Engineer my loans were not easy to pay-off.
 

Birry

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I guess you didn't read what I wrote, specifically the 2nd sentence. Or I poorly explained it.

From my original post:
"The increased acceptance for student loans has allowed schools to increase the cost without suffering lower attendance."

This is the blank checks that the Government is giving the students, which allows schools to increase tuition because a larger pool of students will get blank checks and they will continue to get students. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well, but we are both on the same side of this topic.

I do like how you mentioned loan amounts should be related to career path. Even as an Electrical Engineer my loans were not easy to pay-off.
No worries. I didn't mean to come off as disagreeing with you. Just adding my perspective or clarifying.

I know a lot of people right now that should have never gone to college. It's not because they're stupid or in any way "less". They just should have (and most did) pursued something else right out of high school that better fit their passions or skillsets. My wife is a perfect example, but I know many others. Go to college because their friends and high schools just said that's what you do. So they jump into tens of thousands of dollars of debt having no clue what they actually want to do in life, then decide they never should have done it in the first place. But guess what? They now have $30k in student loans debts - most of which was spent on room and board so they could live in campus figuring out they never should have been there to start with and STILL don't have a good career figured out.

If schools are to blame, it's actually at the high school level. They aren't educating kids for the real world and aren't offering a diverse look at career paths for the diversity of interests that exist. College is the only path to success, etc... They're just feeding the education industrial complex.
 

Birry

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So yeah........great example of how irresponsible the current system is. It's not the article I referenced above, but it might as well be. It illustrates the point perfectly. These stories are popping up on my news feed daily, and every single one of them are pro-forgiveness, and framing these borrowers as victims of "the system".

Excerpts below illustrate the problem. (emphasis added)

“There isn't an American Dream anymore, especially if you went to college and had to borrow for it,” said Tracy Musick, who earned her master’s degree in library science from North Carolina Central University in 2011.

“I was actually in a better position when I was selling makeup, and didn't have a degree at all,” Musick said, adding that she would like to own a house and prosper on her own, but feels like she is weighed down by the debt.

As of 2019, Musick owed about $80,000 in federal loans for her master’s degree — plus at least $3,000 in interest. She said she currently is not sure how much she owes exactly.

source: https://www.voanews.com/student-union/student-loan-forgiveness-plan-receives-more-scrutiny


Library science. Master's degree. Owes "about" $80,000 in federal loans. Was doing better before spending who knows how much getting a mostly worthless degree. You have got to be kidding me.

It's irresponsible that a college would ethically offer a degree that costs so much to attain that KNOWS it couldn't be paid off easily with a $60k/yr salary or less.
It's irresponsible that the federal government would loan that amount of money for such a degree.
It's irresponsible that a student wouldn't understand the horrid economic implications of borrowing that much money given the salaries that library science will bring in.

The story above wants us to feel sorry for these people. I don't.
 
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Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
So yeah........great example of how irresponsible the current system is. It's not the article I referenced above, but it might as well be. It illustrates the point perfectly. These stories are popping up on my news feed daily, and every single one of them are pro-forgiveness, and framing these borrowers as victims of "the system".

Excerpts below illustrate the problem. (emphasis added)

“There isn't an American Dream anymore, especially if you went to college and had to borrow for it,” said Tracy Musick, who earned her master’s degree in library science from North Carolina Central University in 2011.

“I was actually in a better position when I was selling makeup, and didn't have a degree at all,” Musick said, adding that she would like to own a house and prosper on her own, but feels like she is weighed down by the debt.

As of 2019, Musick owed about $80,000 in federal loans for her master’s degree — plus at least $3,000 in interest. She said she currently is not sure how much she owes exactly.

source: https://www.voanews.com/student-union/student-loan-forgiveness-plan-receives-more-scrutiny


Library science. Master's degree. Owes "about" $80,000 in federal loans. Was doing better before spending who knows how much getting a mostly worthless degree. You have got to be kidding me.

It's irresponsible that a college would ethically offer a degree that costs so much to attain that KNOWS it couldn't be paid off easily with a $60k/yr salary or less.
It's irresponsible that the federal government would loan that amount of money for such a degree.
It's irresponsible that a student wouldn't understand the horrid economic implications of borrowing that much money given the salaries that library science will bring in.

The story above wants us to feel sorry for these people. I don't.
Public Libraries and school libraries in Oklahoma will NOT hire you as a librarian unless you have a Masters of Library Science Degree. This is VERY common across the entire US

My wife works in this field. It is one of the more stubborn occupations that require a specific degree I've ever seen
 
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Mar 11, 2006
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https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1362124592110837766
Kudos to Biden for standing up against some in his party that are pushing a poorly thought out idea that rewards individuals who did not follow through on personal responsibility. An idea which is incredibly unfair to millions of Americans and will cause an even further hit to our rapidly growing national debt.