Student Loan Cancellation Sets Up Clash Between Biden and the Left

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CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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“When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.”- Jean Jacques Rousseau

Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.
 

snuffy

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Here is a thought. Forgive any interest for the past 20 years but the principal amount of the loans must be paid in full with a handling fee of 5%. If you have paid off you loans you can have the interest refunding to you in a one time check. It helps stimulate the economy, helps those buried in debt and does not punish thise who did pay. Any loans going forward must be done ina non-predatory fashion.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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A rational idea in this era of low-interest rates would be to lower the interest rates on the loans. The calls to cancel the loans would be less appealing if the money owed was at a similar interest rate to what you can get for your money. But, when you are paid 0.12% and expected to pay 5-6% on loans that can't be refinanced, that is an issue.
100% agree. People can lower mortgage rates due to cheaper interest rates - with rates now incredibly low, this should also occur.

See we can agree on some things. :)
 

steross

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Not trying to be obtuse — but not following what you mean by “chose someone only pays a tiny amount of tax”?

I am assuming you mean why highlight a lower paying taxpayer instead of a higher taxpayer?? If that assumption is correct, it was comment based on Cim’s article — which is an interesting story ...if true. As I stated, canceling debt is a bad things for all groups. It is not fair to all American taxpayers that are fulfilling their financial obligations...regardless of amount.

Now, I am concerned that it may be an impetus to push through high taxes, but that is not my argument.
That is exactly it.

The arguments put forth by the right when discussing tax cuts harms their argument about this. You are something of an outlier in this country in that the idolization of the wealthy that occurred during the dot-com and housing boom has now turned to many people being somewhat irate that the spoils of the economy are going to the wealthy far more than in the past. So, when many people hear "forgive student loans" after years of hearing "the rich pay most of the taxes" they are thinking, "Yeah, let those rich pukes pay it, they are the ones making the money anyway."

Cim's story is almost certainly made up. And, if it was a realistic way of putting the taxpayer up against the educated and now highly paid college student, the mechanic would have opened several shops, been making $500K a year, and said, "Hey, she is a lawyer and will make as much as me. Nobody paid my business loans and took on the risk for me. Why should we do that for her? I've got guys working for me with a family that are in far worse financial shape than she is." THAT would have pitted the true sides. But, a $500K a year small businessman isn't as heart-string tugging as a mechanic, who would probably pay no tax unless single and even then would be minimal. The mechanic is a pawn in the debate, not a real player. What was said is accurate, this might change his tax one penny at best.
 

CocoCincinnati

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If the wealthy pay the lion's share of the taxes, and the claim is that the student loan repayments are unfair to those that pay taxes, why chose someone only pays a tiny amount of tax instead of the lion's share?

And, I don't need to look at posts. I've said, and continue to say, I am not in favor of student loan forgiveness.
The wealthy would pay the lions share (never seen anyone argue they wouldn't), but why should Jim pay even 1 dime of it? His tax burden won't be zero in this hypothetical situation even if it will be a fraction of somebody who is rich.
For somebody who is not in favor of loan forgiveness you are spending a lot of time and energy criticizing people for being against it. Isn't there a topic you support that you can criticize people for opposing instead?

If you want to get really technical, neither Jim nor the wealthy would pay loan forgiveness.....every single penny of it will be borrowed and paid back by their children and/or grandchildren (and ours too).
 

OSUCowboy787

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How would Joe be responsible if he doesn't pay the taxes like we have been told for years?

Again, I'm not arguing he or anyone else should be responsible at all. What I am saying is for years Republicans have been saying that the wealthy fund the income taxes. And, now, the non-wealthy are saying, "Hey, then have them fund these predatory loans."
@cableok is very fond of bringing out "the top1% pay XXXX and the top 10% pay XXX" when arguing for tax relief. But, suddenly, on this subject, NOBODY is saying, "Why do the insurance executives and the high-frequency traders have to pay more tax to fund the college loans" after all of the years of telling us they are the ones that pay. No, now after beating him up saying he doesn't pay hardly any for years they pull out Joe and ask why he has to pay.
Joe Mechanic making 40k a year is definitely paying taxes.
 

OSUCowboy787

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Wrong.

If Joe mechanic makes $44k and is married and has the normal two kids, he actually gets a $4K refund of no tax paid.
Plug it in:
https://www.hrblock.com/tax-calculator/
You're assuming he is working and his wife isn't. if she is a stay at home mom at 44k per year then yes, he will get money back. However I can't imagine that is common for someone making 44k a year to have a stay at home parent.
 

steross

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You're assuming he is working and his wife isn't. if she is a stay at home mom at 44k per year then yes, he will get money back. However I can't imagine that is common for someone making 44k a year to have a stay at home parent.
Then in that case they should quote the family income not Joe's income because they would only be paying tax if the family income is higher.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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If he has a wife and 1 kid he not only is not paying taxes but, according to marginal rate calculator he is getting paid by the government.

https://www.cvnb.com/calc/TaxMargin.html
Wrong.

If Joe mechanic makes $44k and is married and has the normal two kids, he actually gets a $4K refund of no tax paid.
Plug it in:
https://www.hrblock.com/tax-calculator/
This is why it always makes me laugh whenever people argue that the rich don’t pay their fair share. The upper 20% pay about 90% of federal taxes, while the bottom 50% pay about 3%. Our federal tax structure is very progressive. The more regressive tax structures are at the state and local levels.

The problem with forgiving student loan debt is the fact that it wouldn't be paid for. We would just print money and pass that debt onto future generations. That debt would be held by everyone, regardless of wealth or income. It's essentially a transfer of debt from the middle & upper class to all classes.

I'm sick and tired of our politicians printing trillions of dollars for anything and everything and then pretending that the debt doesn't exist. At some point, the future generations will end up paying for our sins.
 

CocoCincinnati

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Taxes aren't limited to just Joe's income tax. A metric crap ton of our lives are taxed one way or another. This whole mechanic story is a hypothetical situation to make a point. A valid one....the taxpayer should not be on the hook for loans that individuals willingly take on.

Why should people who are responsible and paid their loans back (or not taken them in the first place) pay back the loans of people with a brand new iphone in their pocket. It's insanity.

And as the article also points out, the biggest winner, by far, is Harvard (and other universities) who already get tax dollars from us.
 
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This is why it always makes me laugh whenever people argue that the rich don’t pay their fair share. The upper 20% pay about 90% of federal taxes, while the bottom 50% pay about 3%. Our federal tax structure is very progressive. The more regressive tax structures are at the state and local levels.[/B]

The problem with forgiving student loan debt is the fact that it wouldn't be paid for. We would just print money and pass that debt onto future generations. That debt would be held by everyone, regardless of wealth or income. It's essentially a transfer of debt from the middle & upper class to all classes.

I'm sick and tired of our politicians printing trillions of dollars for anything and everything and then pretending that the debt doesn't exist. At some point, the future generations will end up paying for our sins.
Our daughter was on a Bernie rant awhile back about how it's time for the rich to pay their share-you know, because they have more & all...

I explained that our Federal Budget was $4.48 trillion in 2019.

Also, that there are a thousand million in a billion. A thousand billion in a trillion.

So if you took every cent that Musk, Bezos, Gates, etc... have, it's a drop in the bucket.

It still means nothing to her, though. She lives in a world of 'if the rich just paid more, everyone would be so much better off!":rolleyes:
 

jobob85

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Our daughter was on a Bernie rant awhile back about how it's time for the rich to pay their share-you know, because they have more & all...

I explained that our Federal Budget was $4.48 trillion in 2019.

Also, that there are a thousand million in a billion. A thousand billion in a trillion.

So if you took every cent that Musk, Bezos, Gates, etc... have, it's a drop in the bucket.

It still means nothing to her, though. She lives in a world of 'if the rich just paid more, everyone would be so much better off!":rolleyes:
The slightly over 600 billionaires in the US have just over 4.1 trillion in wealth. So, if you clipped all but a billion from each billionaire you could end up with about 3.5 trillion. Not a bad haul with the stroke of an EO pen. Your daughter may be on to something.
 
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Here’s an idea. How about we start holding people accountable again. If you take out a loan pay the damn thing back. If you break the law pay the penalty and accept the consequences. If a cop orders you to stop how about ya just friggin’ stop. We have a bunch of people that took loans out to finance a crappy degree given to them by an institution (the government) that has no concept of how finance works. I played no part and had no say in this fraudulent transaction and you’ll have to forgive me for my reluctance to help them cure their mistake. It’s beyond insane.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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The slightly over 600 billionaires in the US have just over 4.1 trillion in wealth. So, if you clipped all but a billion from each billionaire you could end up with about 3.5 trillion. Not a bad haul with the stroke of an EO pen. Your daughter may be on to something.
It looks to me like our government has pumped at least $10 trillion into this pandemic (likely closer to double that). With 400k ? dead that computes to about $25 million per death. Mind blowing mismanagement and it will go down as one of the most colossal failures in history.
 

jobob85

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It looks to me like our government has pumped at least $10 trillion into this pandemic (likely closer to double that). With 400k ? dead that computes to about $25 million per death. Mind blowing mismanagement and it will go down as one of the most colossal failures in history.[/QUOT E]

Not be sure where those 10-20 trillion numbers come from. Still, I don’t think they were paying for deaths.

You have to decide if this is a serious pandemic and required shutting the economy to stop the spread/deaths. If so, do you let those companies fail by government decree or do you support them to prevent total collapse.