Spencer Sanders = Tony Lindsey

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CTeamPoke

Legendary Cowboy
Jun 18, 2008
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#22
This is not Texas high school any more....

All the players on the field were Mr. Football at each respective school.
All are big, built, quick, fast and hungry.
Well he was Mr. Football for the whole state. Are you insinuating that every college football player was named the best player in their state? Because I'm not sure that's how it works.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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#26
Mark this down. If Sanders learns to anticipate his receivers routes better, learns to see the field better, and develops touch on his passes, he might win the Heisman as a RS-Jr. Its up to him. Is he willing to put in the work on the practice field, time studying film, and develop as a team leader?
 
Jun 12, 2007
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#27
No comparison between Sanders and Lindsey at all. The closest comparison to Sanders is JW Walsh but right now Walsh is the better QB.
 
Mar 17, 2006
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#29
Maybe we should let the talented 19 year old kid who is learning on the job finish the year before we decide who he is or isn’t?
And no, he doesn’t compare good or bad with Tony Lindsay.

Tony did a great job and it one of my all time favorites, but the Qb position is way different now.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#30
Whoever it was that said this is not Texas high school football was 100% correct.

Those offenses have run scheme that is more than just inside and outside Zone.

They have read Zone schemes that are more than just reading the backside defensive end.

They have hots and Pops off of all of their read scheme and they have triggers for pressures.

And, they have pass scheme that incorporates option routes that are meant to read overhang safety players , and a specified scrambling lane that is set up by the route combinations on the play.

OSU does anywhere from very very little to absolutely none of this stuff, and it's stuff Spencer Sanders grew up running and he can do it in his sleep and he's extremely extremely good at it.

It's very frustrating to see what our offense has become, and then for our fans to blame our players for it.

If you went through play-by-play of Saturday, and actually analyzed the plays being ran, and how Sanders read the play, and then how he executed it, you would be shocked to realize how well he actually read and executed.

You'd also be shocked to realize how repetitive, and or, how bad the plays actually were that he was trying to read and execute
 
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Sep 16, 2004
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#31
Whoever it was a said this is not Texas high school football was 100% correct.

Those offenses have run scheme that is more than just inside and outside Zone.

They have read Zone schemes that are more than just reading the backside defensive end.

They have hots and Pops off of all of their read scheme and they have triggers for pressures.

And, they have pass scheme that incorporates option routes that are meant to read overhang safety players , and a specified scrambling lane that is set up by the route combinations on the play.

OSU does anywhere from very very little to absolutely none of this stuff, and it's stuff Spencer Sanders grew up running and he can do it in his sleep and he's extremely extremely good at it.

It's very frustrating to see what our offense has become, and then for our fans to blame our players for it.

If you went through play-by-play of Saturday, and actually analyzed the plays being ran, and how Sanders read the play, and then how he executed it, you would be shocked to realize how well he actually read and executed.

You'd also be shocked to realize how repetitive, and or, how bad the plays actually were that he was trying to read and execute
You know more about Xs and Os than I do (you make that clear). But I don’t think this is about what Spencer knows. I think it’s the speed of the game. In that manner, yes, this is not Texas HS football. Give Sanders some time, and the game will slow down for him. It happened with Rudolph. It happened with ZRob.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#32
The way you build scheme for a guy like Sanders is you take your 4 or 5 best plays, then you start adding prongs to them.

For instance, we love to run outside zone....
Well.... run outside zone until safeties start driving down on it....
Then...With that outside zone, stop blocking the playside defensive end.
If that end chases the outside zone, qb keeps and gets underneath and burns the safety driving on the outside zone and the D end chasing the fast flow outside zone.
If the defensive end stays home and attacks the mesh point, give the ball and now the running back is downhill with a free release to the edge because the D End attacked the mesh instead of setting the edge.

If the D End stays home and attacks the mesh point, but then they start driving play side safety on the stretch, but then rolling backside safety to replace, run a hot from the backside H back right down the backside seam.

Sanders knows how to read an unblocked player in the read game in his sleep. He's done it since he was 5.

Everyone already knows how to run outside zone, and your H already knows how to run a hot/pop.

So.... You're not adding new plays for kids to learn, you're just adding a prong combining things kids already know how to do and are good at.

Then, you slightly tweak the prongs of each concept each week based on how the defense plays.

For instance...
That concept the next week might be run off of inside zone instead of outside zone which flops who the fast flow player is and who the full flow player is for the defense.

Meaning, Back attacks the unblocked D End on the inside zone. If D End attacks mesh point, qb pulls on the stretch. If D End chases the q stretch, give underneath to the back. Instead of having a hot on the back side, run a drag by the tight end, then run it to the tight end side and boot. Or run it to the tight end side and run a corner route by the tight end and once qb keeps read the safety. If he drives, throw to the tight end. If he stays home, scramble.

So...
There are a couple zone beater concepts, so let's talk about a man beater concept

Out of 3x1, against man coverage....
Have the single run a cross....
If corner chases in man coverage, qb pulls the ball down and scrambles to that side.

If they start keeping a safety to the backside because you've beat them on the scramble, now just release back straight down the seam and put that safety in conflict. He either chases the seam by the back and qb scrambles, or he stays home to cover the scramble and the back is wide open.

OU uses this concept all the time and usually their back is completely uncovered.

Not to mention, by having to keep a safety back the single, now the defense has one less player to line up the the trips which should be a bonanza for the RPO's back to that side.

Again.... You're not adding new plays.... You're just adding and or modifying your prongs with things everyone already knows how to do based on what the defense does.

This is the stuff OU, Baylor, Clemson etc... are doing and that's why they are so plug and play.

It really simplifies everything for all your players, and it makes it to where the defense can't be right.

We used to run offense like that, but Gundy didn't like it because he couldn't dictate who was going to get the ball from down to down.

And... he doesn't like qb run game because of the injury factor. He's said that many times.

So... Now.... We have what we have which is the current version of our offense, and it's a shame.
 
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Nov 14, 2010
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#33
Here's a specific example at how good Spencer Sanders is at this type of offense, using a play that we ran Saturday.

We ran a hook/wheel/arrow route combo Saturday out of trips.
The #3 ran an arrow diagonally across the field to occupy backside safety.
The #2 ran a wheel
The #1 ran a hook. It's actually more of a drive then comeback route, but for simplicity sake, let's call it a hook.

Okay....
The idea is for the qb to read the corner.
The wheel from the #2 wheels around the hook from #1

If the corner chases the wheel, then the qb throws the hook which is what happened.
Actually, the corner and the 1/2 player both chased the wheel.

Sanders read it very quickly and delivered a high RPM accurate ball to the hook.

Since Iowa State plays the extra robber safety, it took the extra robber safety to drive on the hook.

Now, instead of running that play and just leaving it, like we did, add to it.
Let Sanders roll and give him a run/pass option. Since the extra robber safety was the only player left to cover the hook we had him in conflict if we threaten that side by Sanders rolling with a run option. The safety would either cover the hook and Sanders scrambles, or he drives on the scramble and Sanders throws the hook.

Iowa State had no answer to this concept and we just simply left it and started re treading all the plays we had already run without adding prongs to them.

I simply don't understand how someone in our booth couldn't see how Iowa State was having to use their robber player and how that was a conflict for them and how we didn't go back to it and add elements to it that they couldn't defend based on how they were playing it.

It's like... Great....
We just ran a combo route concept and it looked great.
Wait.... Why are we not going to go back to it or adding to it?

So...
We started re treading plays, only scored 6 points in the 2nd half because of it, now our fans are calling out our Qb.
 
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Nov 14, 2010
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#35
What color is the sky in your world?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I just explained my stance with great detail using examples of things that have actually happened in games.

I've explained OSU's scheme and how limited it is and how it is hampering Sanders progress.

You're more than welcome to challenge any of it in a back and forth about it.

Sarcasm is always the biggest indicator of not having any idea what else to say.
 
Oct 7, 2015
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#37
I just explained my stance with great detail using examples of things that have actually happened in games.

I've explained OSU's scheme and how limited it is and how it is hampering Sanders progress.

You're more than welcome to challenge any of it in a back and forth about it.

Sarcasm is always the biggest indicator of not having any idea what else to say.
I agree with most of your argument with the exception of sarcasm.
Sarcasm can be a most effective tool in the right hands.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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#38
I just explained my stance with great detail using examples of things that have actually happened in games.

I've explained OSU's scheme and how limited it is and how it is hampering Sanders progress.

You're more than welcome to challenge any of it in a back and forth about it.

Sarcasm is always the biggest indicator of not having any idea what else to say.
The old "no matter what you say I win" strategy! Well played!

I see Sanders doing things he ought not to do. They are instinctual, they happen when he is pressed or is pressing, like locking on to the primary receiver and forcing balls into spaces where there is no window, running with the ball and holding it like a loaf of bread, holding on to the ball too long before getting rid of it or taking off running. This was not so evident in the first 3 games against lesser competition. In conference play it has produced turnovers. Coaching can fix these things, play calling cannot. But the coaching is going to take time and isn't likely to happen with the course of the season. I think we'll see improvement next year.

Btw, you excoriated the coaches for simplifying the play calling for Sanders, and then said the play calling needs to be simplified for him. You can't have it both ways.

Your move Vizzini. Which drink contains the iocaine powder?
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#39
The old "no matter what you say I win" strategy! Well played!

I see Sanders doing things he ought not to do. They are instinctual, they happen when he is pressed or is pressing, like locking on to the primary receiver and forcing balls into spaces where there is no window, running with the ball and holding it like a loaf of bread, holding on to the ball too long before getting rid of it or taking off running. This was not so evident in the first 3 games against lesser competition. In conference play it has produced turnovers. Coaching can fix these things, play calling cannot. But the coaching is going to take time and isn't likely to happen with the course of the season. I think we'll see improvement next year.

Btw, you excoriated the coaches for simplifying the play calling for Sanders, and then said the play calling needs to be simplified for him. You can't have it both ways.

Your move Vizzini. Which drink contains the iocaine powder?
It's called having a stance and having real evidence to support it, and providing it in numerous different examples and explaining it all.

If you disagree with any of the breakdowns I've given with the examples I've used, then lets get on the grease board and hash it out.

If you'd like to break down some instances in games to support your assertions and want to have a back and forth on it, let's do it.

You're making blanket statements while providing 0 evidence, then being sarcastic with someone who has.

I've explained all this and you haven't

Go back and read what I think the coaches should be doing schematically by taking the plays we're good at and adding prongs. Go back and read what I've described what we are doing. It's all there and It's very detailed. You have to try very hard to misrepresent any on it.

I've stated what I think we're doing wrong and how to correct it and given examples of both.

You can keep doubling down on sarcasm to deflect the fact that you're not going back and forth on any of my points, but I'd rather actually have a back and forth discussion about the content that has been provided.
 
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Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
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Jun 24, 2005
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#40
The way you build scheme for a guy like Sanders is you take your 4 or 5 best plays, then you start adding prongs to them.

.
We all make comments on what the coach should or shouldn't have done, knowing that he really has infinitely more knowledge of the game than we do. If you could only judge the head coach when you have a greater or equal grasp of the game, this would be a pretty quiet message board. But I get the feeling you really do think you have a superior knowledge of the game than Gundy.

If you were a Big 12 head coach, where would you fall in your own ranking? Where would you rank Gundy? He usually comes in around 4th on the lists I've seen.