SCOTUS to overturn Roe v Wade

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steross

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I absolutely 100% believe there should be an exception for rape. I do wonder why someone who was raped wouldn't get the morning after pill.
I'm not saying this to be flippant, but if you did my job or were a woman that volunteered for rape crisis you would understand better. We offer it to all of them but they often are not in a decision-making state of mind. The whirlwind of crap they have to go through at a time when they feel dirty, ashamed, and broken makes those decisions that analytically seem obvious more difficult. They sometimes just start saying no to nearly everything just to get away.
 

CowboyOrangeFan

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What percentage of rape victims are actually able to get help immediately after being raped? I have no idea what the numbers are, but I can easily see a large percentage of women (and young girls) either not being in a position mentally to seek help or in some cases not physically able to seek help. A six week restriction for someone in those situations seems cruel. Although, sometimes I think that is the intention for some who want to exert control over others.
 

CocoCincinnati

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Although, sometimes I think that is the intention for some who want to exert control over others
I don't believe that any more than I would believe that some in the pro choice side just like killing babies. I keep hoping that we can at the very least come to believe that both sides of this issue have good intentions. Maybe that's just not possible.
 

Binman4OSU

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I don't believe that any more than I would believe that some in the pro choice side just like killing babies. I keep hoping that we can at the very least come to believe that both sides of this issue have good intentions. Maybe that's just not possible.
I think it is very hard for some of us to admit that this is a VERY hard question for both sides,. Both sides are working with the best intentions, both sides are fighting for the rights of others , and it is hard for us to admit that in some instances (and more than we like) we can genuinely agree with both sides at some point depending on the situation for an abortion

Yet our politicians believe there has to be a clear black and white cut and dry winner and loser in this question.

The real answer is many times an abortion need/want is situational and NO law will be able to handle all the nuanced situations... politicians use it as a topic for vote getting because they know the question is so tough
 

Cimarron

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If the fetus is a person it is protected. And that is my point. It isn't about when life begins, it isn't about when humanity begins, it is about when personhood begins.
Then it hinges on the definition of "person" or "human being". If a fetus is a "person" then it has all the same protections under the constitution as you and me. An abortion of any kind then would be murder as it would be if you ended the life of any other innocent person protected under the constitution.

If a fetus is not a person, then it becomes a state issue.
 
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OSUCowboy787

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If the fetus is a person it is protected. And that is my point. It isn't about when life begins, it isn't about when humanity begins, it is about when personhood begins.
Definitely the right question to be asking but I think it should be commingled with he laws around when to charge someone for instance with double murder for killing a pregnant woman or someone assaults a woman and it ends in the babies death and not the mothers. Consistency needs to be had with all of these laws that involve the unborn.
 

ramases2112

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What percentage of rape victims are actually able to get help immediately after being raped? I have no idea what the numbers are, but I can easily see a large percentage of women (and young girls) either not being in a position mentally to seek help or in some cases not physically able to seek help. A six week restriction for someone in those situations seems cruel. Although, sometimes I think that is the intention for some who want to exert control over others.
What a ridiculous statement.
 

StillwaterTownie

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If the fetus is a person it is protected. And that is my point. It isn't about when life begins, it isn't about when humanity begins, it is about when personhood begins.
Years ago in Mississippi, voters there said NO to personhood as beginning at the moment of conception. Part of the problem as to why was the fact that frozen embryos couldn't be thrown out without murder charges. Some pro-live people, though, think frozen embryos don't count as full human life because they didn't come from the mother's womb. States that want to vote on personhood better have that as an exception.
 

RxCowboy

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Definitely the right question to be asking but I think it should be commingled with he laws around when to charge someone for instance with double murder for killing a pregnant woman or someone assaults a woman and it ends in the babies death and not the mothers. Consistency needs to be had with all of these laws that involve the unborn.
Exactly right. From my slide on my talk on RvW and PPPvCasey in Bioethics:

1652816327085.png
 

RxCowboy

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Then it hinges on the definition of "person" or "human being". If a fetus is a "person" then it has all the same protections under the constitution as you and me. An abortion of any kind then would be murder as it would be if you ended the life of any other innocent person protected under the constitution.

If a fetus is not a person, then it becomes a state issue.
The mother is always a person. The constitution requires that states provide her both due process and equal protection. The states must do this while not necessarily being required to do this for the fetus. Thus, the central issue isn't when life begins, or whether or not that life that begins is human life, it is when personhood begins, and the person thus has the rights and expectations of due process and equal protection.
 

CowboyOrangeFan

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I don't believe that any more than I would believe that some in the pro choice side just like killing babies. I keep hoping that we can at the very least come to believe that both sides of this issue have good intentions. Maybe that's just not possible.
While I have a enough faith in humanity to not believe that about the majority of the people. I am quite confident that for some, it is all about power.

No, I’m not talking about anyone specifically here. Mostly just assholes I have met over the years that would love to see women back in “their” place.
 

jobob85

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Can you abort to save the mother? If not why? Should the mother be afforded the stand your ground rights to protect herself?
 

oks10

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Can you abort to save the mother? If not why? Should the mother be afforded the stand your ground rights to protect herself?
At least with Oklahoma's law, abortion to save the mother is allowed after 6wks. It looks to be the ONLY instance it's allowed after 6wks which is the issue that many have with the law. If you don't find out your pregnant until week 6 (fairly common) then tough sh*t. There are no non-medical exceptions for getting an abortion at that point, not even rape or incest. But that's ok because our Governor knows it's "super super hard" and expects all of the churches and non-profits will take care of everything.
 

RxCowboy

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Can you abort to save the mother? If not why? Should the mother be afforded the stand your ground rights to protect herself?
Catholics, the most conservative prolife voices, agree that you should be able to choose between which life to save when lives are on the line. It is a medical choice at that point, not an ethical one.