Russia invades Ukraine

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Nov 6, 2010
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Any public servant defending Putin openly needs to be voted out immediately. Absolutely insanity that they would do that. I assume they are so far up Trump's (Putin's?) butt that they have no choice but to toe that line, but still.... get them out ASAP.
I don't understand the strategy.
 

steross

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Mar 31, 2004
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This seems wrong. The Met Opera is stopping shows of this performer. She has made several comments condemning the Russian invasion, but the Met wanted her to further condemn Putin by name.
I certainly don’t know the risks to her, but I can see how publicly condemning Putin might not be wise for her family.

https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1499501141075406850?s=21
Maybe if she had not been a long term Putin supporter and still appearing to do so. This is not a war between nations. This is a war brought on by the lunacy of a man. He needs to be condemned:

In the days leading up to Thursday's announcement, Gelb had indicated publicly that it was unlikely that the Met would reach a resolution with Netrebko. In an interview published Tuesday, Gelb told The New York Times, "In the case of somebody who is so closely associated with Putin, denouncing the war is not enough."


Over the past several days, Netrebko made several posts and stories on Instagram that had varied in tone. In one post, she said she opposed the invasion, but in an accompanying story (which vanished within 24 hours), she called people from the West seeking repudiations of Putin hypocrites and "human s***s" who "are as evil as blind agressors [sic]."


In another recent Instagram post, she published a photo of herself with conductor Valery Gergiev, who mentored her and helped introduce her to international audiences. Gergiev has been an active supporter and friend of Putin since the early 1990s.


Since then, Netrebko has made her Instagram profile private.


https://www.npr.org/sections/decept...rebko-metropolitan-opera-russia-putin-ukraine
 

steross

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Curious. Who’s “defending” Putin?


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I posted it above.

Putin is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets. A former American official was interviewed saying that Putin is being "too gentle" while murdering civilians. Then he said that Zelensky should just bend to Putin's demands and that he is not doing anything heroic when he is staying where there is a good chance he will be killed when he could have easily fled. That is blatantly defending Putin against the position of the vast majority of the Western world.

I'm sure you can try to make some ticky-tack "that isn't really defending" argument if that is the side you want to be on.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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Curious. Who’s “defending” Putin?


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I posted it above.

Putin is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets. A former American official was interviewed saying that Putin is being "too gentle" while murdering civilians. Then he said that Zelensky should just bend to Putin's demands and that he is not doing anything heroic when he is staying where there is a good chance he will be killed when he could have easily fled. That is blatantly defending Putin against the position of the vast majority of the Western world.

I'm sure you can try to make some ticky-tack "that isn't really defending" argument if that is the side you want to be on.
Nah, I won’t be ticky tack. He’s just describing what’s happened, and that Russian forces could have been more aggressive. He’s not defending the invasion. But he is a punk.


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TheMonkey

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I posted it above.

Putin is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets. A former American official was interviewed saying that Putin is being "too gentle" while murdering civilians. Then he said that Zelensky should just bend to Putin's demands and that he is not doing anything heroic when he is staying where there is a good chance he will be killed when he could have easily fled. That is blatantly defending Putin against the position of the vast majority of the Western world.

I'm sure you can try to make some ticky-tack "that isn't really defending" argument if that is the side you want to be on.
What’s his game? Is he trying to undermine Biden’s administration? Do the Russians have kompromat on him? I’m just trying to understand why he even says these things.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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I posted it above.

Putin is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets. A former American official was interviewed saying that Putin is being "too gentle" while murdering civilians. Then he said that Zelensky should just bend to Putin's demands and that he is not doing anything heroic when he is staying where there is a good chance he will be killed when he could have easily fled. That is blatantly defending Putin against the position of the vast majority of the Western world.

I'm sure you can try to make some ticky-tack "that isn't really defending" argument if that is the side you want to be on.
What’s his game? Is he trying to undermine Biden’s administration? Do the Russians have kompromat on him? I’m just trying to understand why he even says these things.
Just looking for something to dis. Sorta like a message board.


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steross

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Nah, I won’t be ticky tack. He’s just describing what’s happened, and that Russian forces could have been more aggressive. He’s not defending the invasion. But he is a punk.

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Saying exactly the type of things I knew you would say but claiming they are not ticky-tack before you do it doesn't make it not ticky-tack.

The guy is saying that murdering innocent civilians is "Too gentle." The fact that a madman in control of a nuclear power could do more does not mean that terrorizing innocent civilians is too gentle. He then said the Ukrainian president should give in to Putin's demands. Agreeing with Putin and saying that Ukraine should acquiesce to the Russian demands is exactly what a defense would be.

It is like saying that a rape victim shouldn't have worn that short skirt and she might not have gotten hurt if she would not have tried to fight back. You can add "but I'm not defending the rape by the punk" to those statements but it doesn't matter 'cause you are.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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Nah, I won’t be ticky tack. He’s just describing what’s happened, and that Russian forces could have been more aggressive. He’s not defending the invasion. But he is a punk.

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Saying exactly the type of things I knew you would say but claiming they are not ticky-tack before you do it doesn't make it not ticky-tack.

The guy is saying that murdering innocent civilians is "Too gentle." The fact that a madman in control of a nuclear power could do more does not mean that terrorizing innocent civilians is too gentle. He then said the Ukrainian president should give in to Putin's demands. Agreeing with Putin and saying that Ukraine should acquiesce to the Russian demands is exactly what a defense would be.

It is like saying that a rape victim shouldn't have worn that short skirt and she might not have gotten hurt if she would not have tried to fight back. You can add "but I'm not defending the rape by the punk" to those statements but it doesn't matter 'cause you are.
Listen, I get it. Anyone associated with Trump is a horrible human, I generally agree. This guy included. But he’s not defending the invasion. He’s merely describing the voracity, or lack thereof of Putins tactics thus far. While I disagree with his view of Zelinskyy, only time will tell if opposing the Russians is a wise move in terms of casualties. Maybe you’ll have a different opinion if there are 5 million new graves. Who knows?

Maybe we should just institute a no-fly zone and put the issue to rest. Oh wait, that might not be a good idea since it would mean we’d have to engage Russian military units that are IN RUSSIA!

Oh, and your “it’s like saying” example is just dumb.


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TheMonkey

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Oh, and your “it’s like saying” example is just dumb.
You proved his point when you said this, which focuses on opposing Putin resulting in x number of deaths, instead of focusing on Putin’s attack itself.
While I disagree with his view of Zelinskyy, only time will tell if opposing the Russians is a wise move in terms of casualties. Maybe you’ll have a different opinion if there are 5 million new graves. Who knows?
Was it wise for the victim to resist the rape? She would have fewer bruises if she complied.
 

SLVRBK

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US officials travel to Venezuela, a Russia ally, as the West isolates Putin

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...ela-a-russia-ally-as-the-west-isolates-putin/

If the United States curtails the imports of Russian oil, Venezuela would be able to replace some of the lost supplies, said Francisco Monaldi, an expert on Venezuelan energy at Rice University in Houston.

Maduro appeared open to discussing oil deals with the United States.

“Here lies the oil of Venezuela, which is available for whomever wants to produce and buy it, be it an investor from Asia, Europe or the United States,” he said in a public speech Thursday.
 

steross

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Listen, I get it. Anyone associated with Trump is a horrible human, I generally agree. This guy included. But he’s not defending the invasion. He’s merely describing the voracity, or lack thereof of Putins tactics thus far. While I disagree with his view of Zelinskyy, only time will tell if opposing the Russians is a wise move in terms of casualties. Maybe you’ll have a different opinion if there are 5 million new graves. Who knows?

Maybe we should just institute a no-fly zone and put the issue to rest. Oh wait, that might not be a good idea since it would mean we’d have to engage Russian military units that are IN RUSSIA!

Oh, and your “it’s like saying” example is just dumb.


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No, you don't get it at all. This is just your same ticky-tack argument, repeated. You simply do not have a good understanding of human nature. He is not "describing the voracity". Words have meaning and he easily could have said, "While Putin has killed many civilians needlessly he could have been even more ruthless" THAT would have been a description. But, using the words "too gentle" is not a description. It is a defense wrapped in a veiled threat of more. He could have said, "Yes, the actions of Zelensky have been heroic but I believe a better course of action would have been....." But, no, again, he took the dictator's side and gave the ukr leader no credit whatsoever. The same words coming from a Russian government spokesman would not be a surprise.

Stick to barrels, geography or whatever it is you are good at reading because reading humans you are not doing very well.

And, my "it's like saying" is only dumb because, you just don't get it.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Why isn’t the Biden Administration supporting sanctioning Russia oil? This is quite baffling as even many in his party, with exception of progressives, and the media support stopping Russian oil purchases. Oil is what drives their economy. It seems extremely odd that Biden would sanction most everything else, but continue to allow Russian oil purchase.
 

SLVRBK

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Why isn’t the Biden Administration supporting sanctioning Russia oil? This is quite baffling as even many in his party, with exception of progressives, and the media support stopping Russian oil purchases. Oil is what drives their economy. It seems extremely odd that Biden would sanction most everything else, but continue to allow Russian oil purchase.
Russian oil accounts for approx 11% of the global export market, I think the hesitation is because we haven’t figured out how to replace that from other producers. US is in Venezuela now trying to make a deal with Maduro, I read that Biden will visit the Middle East soon and assume increases Saudi production will be a primary goal.

https://www.axios.com/biden-saudi-trip-oil-b7a91070-8045-4155-9120-a35d59fd7603.html