Russia invades Ukraine

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VaPoke

Wrangler
Oct 14, 2013
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#21
This is what happens when the World's main superpower has disunity, can't ties it's own shoelaces, has a cognitive degenerate as POTUS and an arrogant narcissist as it's previous POTUS (causing the dis-unity). Man we need a Reagan...or at least a GWB..or even an Obama with less socialism. Both parties suck right now, neither has any moral high ground nor standing with the American people who are decent... good...bright...light...friendly...caring... and above all, honorable...yet we continue to elect buffoons' who are none of those things. We need a correction...especially in the area of foreign policy...either lead or lose what you gained after WWII...this is where we stand at this post Afghanistan crossroads.
I don't think it boils down to moral high ground but rather who is sitting in the White House. Do they see weakness or strength with U.S. leadership. With Obama we saw Crimea taken over by Russia. We also saw Iran hold U.S. sailors at gunpoint. You saw these actions stop under the Republican administration.
I think Ukraine and Tiawan are very much at risk with the current administration. Also concerned what other country or territory will come onto the radar if we don't respond correctly.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#23
I don't think it boils down to moral high ground but rather who is sitting in the White House. Do they see weakness or strength with U.S. leadership. With Obama we saw Crimea taken over by Russia. We also saw Iran hold U.S. sailors at gunpoint. You saw these actions stop under the Republican administration.
I think Ukraine and Tiawan are very much at risk with the current administration. Also concerned what other country or territory will come onto the radar if we don't respond correctly.
So let's replace your "strength/weakness" with consequences. What consequences would Putin suffer under a republican admin vs democratic admin?? I can't come up with any good answers to this one, but maybe as Binman suggests, there are a lot of back channel levers that can get pulled that are not for public consumption.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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#26
Rumors of war. There’s a crazy word out that NATO accepted both Ukraine and Georgia. Can’t find any truth to it accept actual Ukrainian telling me. But I do enjoy good rumors.
“NATO has made a decision to admit Ukraine and Georgia into the alliance, but did not set a deadline yet—Stoltenberg said in an interview with Repubblica news.”
https://azeritimes.com/2022/01/14/s...ukraine-and-georgia-to-join-nato-not-set-yet/
Hoooollly poop if true.

Also, this was written literally one day ago. Would be hilarious and one for the history books:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/us/politics/nato-ukraine.html


1642191250944.png
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Dec 10, 2004
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#28
That article really rambled. Also said that decision was made way back in 2008??
“NATO has made a decision to admit Ukraine and Georgia into the alliance, but did not set a deadline yet—Stoltenberg said in an interview with Repubblica news.”
https://azeritimes.com/2022/01/14/s...ukraine-and-georgia-to-join-nato-not-set-yet/
Hoooollly poop if true.

Also, this was written literally one day ago. Would be hilarious and one for the history books:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/us/politics/nato-ukraine.html


View attachment 94146
The NY Times article is an opinion piece.

Also from the Azeri times article:

"The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) has decided to admit Ukraine and Georgia, but didn’t set a deadline, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview published in the La Repubblica newspaper on January 14, Report informs referring to TASS."

So the Azeri Times article seems to be reporting that TASS, the Russian government controlled new agency, said that Stoltenberg said that in La Repubblica (an Italian newspaper).

I'd take accuracy of that with a big giant grain of salt.
 

Duke Silver

Find safe haven in a warm bathtub full of my jazz.
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#29
This is what happens when the World's main superpower has disunity, can't ties it's own shoelaces, has a cognitive degenerate as POTUS and an arrogant narcissist as it's previous POTUS (causing the dis-unity). Man we need a Reagan...or at least a GWB..or even an Obama with less socialism. Both parties suck right now, neither has any moral high ground nor standing with the American people who are decent... good...bright...light...friendly...caring... and above all, honorable...yet we continue to elect buffoons' who are none of those things. We need a correction...especially in the area of foreign policy...either lead or lose what you gained after WWII...this is where we stand at this post Afghanistan crossroads.
Previous 2 administrations. They are the same side of the same coin
 
Nov 6, 2010
3,424
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#30
This is what happens when the World's main superpower has disunity, can't ties it's own shoelaces, has a cognitive degenerate as POTUS and an arrogant narcissist as it's previous POTUS (causing the dis-unity). Man we need a Reagan...or at least a GWB..or even an Obama with less socialism. Both parties suck right now, neither has any moral high ground nor standing with the American people who are decent... good...bright...light...friendly...caring... and above all, honorable...yet we continue to elect buffoons' who are none of those things. We need a correction...especially in the area of foreign policy...either lead or lose what you gained after WWII...this is where we stand at this post Afghanistan crossroads.
I'd really like to see how the country would react to an independent president. I think it would probably be the best thing that could happen to us as far as getting back on track.
 

llcoolw

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Feb 7, 2005
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#36
Statement by the NATO Secretary General on cyber attacks against Ukraine
I strongly condemn the cyber attacks on the Ukrainian Government.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg
NATO has worked closely with Ukraine for years to help boost its cyber defences. NATO cyber experts in Brussels have been exchanging information with their Ukrainian counterparts on the current malicious cyber activities. Allied experts in country are also supporting the Ukrainian authorities on the ground. In the coming days, NATO and Ukraine will sign an agreement on enhanced cyber cooperation, including Ukrainian access to NATO’s malware information sharing platform. NATO’s strong political and practical support for Ukraine will continue.
 

llcoolw

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#37
"Direct clash with NATO military": Lavrov named "red lines" and talked about the war in Donbas
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said about Ukraine's accession to NATO that Moscow "categorically does not accept the appearance of NATO on the Russian borders." He called it "a real red line."

"Even if Ukraine does not join NATO, the appearance there of U.S. strike weapons and military bases on the Sea of Azov is the second red line," he said at a briefing at the department on Friday.

Lavrov echoed Russian Defense Minister Shoigu and said there are "several hundred U.S. and British military personnel in Ukraine."

"The participation of Western instructors in the conflict in Donbas would cross all red lines and mean a direct clash between Russian people and NATO troops," he threatened.

Before this Lavrov said that "Russia's patience has come to an end" and threatened to respond to the refusal to close NATO's doors to Ukraine.
 

llcoolw

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#38
Patience with West has come to an end – Moscow
Russia is becoming increasingly weary with the actions of Western powers, Moscow’s top diplomat has warned, following negotiations this week with Washington and NATO on European security concerns.

Speaking at a press conference on Friday, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stressed that Moscow’s “patience has come to an end. We are very patient…we have been harnessing [burdens] for a very long time, and now it’s time for us to go.”

According to the veteran official, the Russian side is waiting for the West to give “a concrete answer” to its security proposals.

Lavrov also slammed Washington’s recent demands, that Russia send its troops allegedly poised at the Ukrainian border back to their barracks, as “barking up the wrong tree.” According to him, “the time that this has been chosen [to be discussed] simply reflects a period when the West gets mad, let’s be frank.”

READ MORE: Russia not intimidated by threat of ‘crippling’ sanctions – ambassador
“We categorically cannot be satisfied with this – these are unacceptable approaches,” he remarked.

The diplomat also took aim at Brussels, claiming that the EU is “now actively promoting their plans to send a military coaching mission to Ukraine.” He accused the bloc of wanting to “contribute to the training of…anti-Russian units.”

Lavrov’s remarks come amid increasingly strained relations between East and West. On Wednesday, NATO representatives and Russian diplomats met to discuss security on the European continent, which was preceded by talks between officials from Washington and Moscow.

Russia ‘spoon-fed’ security proposals to US at summit – media
Read more

Russia ‘spoon-fed’ security proposals to US at summit – media
The US-led military bloc’s Secretary General, Jens Stoltenberg, said on Wednesday that the organization was ready to schedule “a series of meetings on various topics, including restrictions on missile weapons in Europe,” with the Russian side. However, he made it clear NATO would not would not back down, and compromise on what it considers to be its core values, to meet Moscow’s demands.

Stoltenberg insisted that “only Ukraine and 30 allies can decide when Ukraine becomes a member ... Russia does not have a veto,” referring to one of its requests to guarantee that Kiev will not join NATO’s ranks.

Last month, Moscow handed over two draft treaties – one to Washington and the other to NATO – which included a request for assurances from NATO concerning the movement of military personnel and hardware, as well as calls on the organization to refrain from further enlargement close to Russia’s borders.

https://www.rt.com/russia/546060-lavrov-kremlin-loosing-patience/
 

TheMonkey

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Sep 16, 2004
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#39
This is what happens when the World's main superpower has disunity, can't ties it's own shoelaces, has a cognitive degenerate as POTUS and an arrogant narcissist as it's previous POTUS (causing the dis-unity). Man we need a Reagan...or at least a GWB..or even an Obama with less socialism. Both parties suck right now, neither has any moral high ground nor standing with the American people who are decent... good...bright...light...friendly...caring... and above all, honorable...yet we continue to elect buffoons' who are none of those things. We need a correction...especially in the area of foreign policy...either lead or lose what you gained after WWII...this is where we stand at this post Afghanistan crossroads.
Nothing creates unity like an existential threat. If only we had something threatening our lives and livelihood…. Oh wait, we politicized that and it polarized us even more.