Russia invades Ukraine

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
May 4, 2011
3,841
1,699
1,743
Charleston, SC
You never know where things can lead, did people think at the time the killing of Archduke Ferdinand would cause WWI?

Edit: just found this article after posting

U.S. considers China sanctions to deter Taiwan action; Taiwan presses EU
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/exc...ions-to-deter-taiwan-action-taiwan-presses-eu
European wars that engulfed much or even most of the continent were not odd prior to ww1. You had prior European wars where alliances dragged major powers in, that reshaped the map of the continent, and with several parties involved. This one was just bigger and really a culmination of conflict across Europe over the previous century. Probably the most unexpected part is that it pulled us in. Otherwise, much of ww1 could have been anticipated. Now, had Russia been more successful in Ukraine (more like WW2), we'd be having a different conversation.
 

SLVRBK

Johnny 8ball's PR Manager
Staff
A/V Subscriber
Oct 16, 2003
16,709
6,012
1,743
Katy, TX
Ukrainian ballet dancer Oleksandr Shapoval is killed on the battlefield

One of Ukraine's leading ballet artists is being remembered as a "courageous romantic" after being killed on the battlefield.

The National Opera of Ukraine announced, with "indescribable sadness," the death of Oleksandr Shapoval, one of the company's former principal dancers and a teacher at Kyiv State Choreographic College.

Shapoval died Monday at the age of 48 "under enemy mortar shelling," according to the statement.

Within days of Russia's invasion, Shapoval volunteered to serve in Ukraine's territorial defense, helping to protect Kyiv's Left Bank. He then learned how to launch grenades. According to The National Opera of Ukraine, his unit was recently transferred to one of "the hottest zones" in the war-torn country. Citing the media outlet Ukraina Moloda, The Kyiv Independent reports that Shapoval was killed in the battle of Majorsk in the Donetsk region.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/13/1122...eksandr-shapoval-is-killed-on-the-battlefield
 
Sep 12, 2008
1,384
423
1,713
Interesting take on the US involvement in Ukraine..

Main points is that US wins no matter what
-“Money” being sent to Ukraine is mostly in form of arms/weapons
-They’re sent via “lend-lease” meaning Ukraine will have to pay it back

-The US is passing off older, strategically obsolete weapons which would eventually be replaced (HIMARS)
-The US didn’t part with any of their most effective and technologically advanced systems (helicopers, planes)
-NATO is strengthened under US leadership

-America will achieve all its strategic objectives on the cheap
-Europe will need to invest in their military which will mean big business for the US
-Russian armaments have been exposed as inferior so Russia will lose global marketshare to the US military industry

-Europe is essentially decoupled from the Russian energy tit, creating a huge opportunity for US LNG
-Europe falls completely out of Russian influence
-The Russian military is grounded down by Ukraine with no American soldiers dying-Russia finished as a threat to US influence

-The US can now focus all military attention towards containing China
-This is also a wakeup call for EU to take China seriously as a military adversary
-EU-China relations have been set back decades in terms of cooperation

-The days of the US having to twist the EU’s arm to not let Huawei build their 5G system are over
-China’s slow moving influence campaign into Europe is essentially done
-China now needs to think much harder about invading Taiwan…both militarily and strategically (sanctions)

The conclusion was that whatever the actual costs to the US, it’s peanuts compared to the accomplishment of these strategic objectives which will be reaping dividends for years to come. Ultimately the EU will shoulder most of the suffering while the US reaps the benefits
 

ramases2112

Federal Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Jun 28, 2008
11,547
5,606
1,743
31
Inside the Basket of Deplorables
www.reddit.com
https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1572263514500374528
Definitely a move to full mobilization though I dont think that will actually accomplish anything. By the time Russia is able to train and equipment their conscripts(big if here), they will have lost most of the current territory they hold. Russia is already having difficulty equipping and maintaining the skeleton crew they have now. Let's not even take into account that conscripts are low morale poorly trained meat bags that will be running into fully trained by NATO Ukrainians equipped with the best gear. Russia is on the path to collapse and there are little to no off ramps available.
 

ramases2112

Federal Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Jun 28, 2008
11,547
5,606
1,743
31
Inside the Basket of Deplorables
www.reddit.com
Before anyone says "Oh what about russia in WW2? They just threw bodies at the problem and beat the Germans!" That only worked because they were literally supplied with American steel and the fact that the Germans ran out of ammo and were fighting a two front war. If the Germans fought them on one front and the Americans didnt help the Russians, they would have conquered Russia with relative ease. The days of "throwing" bodies at the problem are long long past. This wont work with modern weapons. As long as NATO continues to supply arms, the Ukrainians will continue on the path toward complete liberation of held territories and victory.
 

Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
39,043
10,957
1,743
Stupid about AGW!!
Definitely a move to full mobilization though I dont think that will actually accomplish anything. By the time Russia is able to train and equipment their conscripts(big if here), they will have lost most of the current territory they hold. Russia is already having difficulty equipping and maintaining the skeleton crew they have now. Let's not even take into account that conscripts are low morale poorly trained meat bags that will be running into fully trained by NATO Ukrainians equipped with the best gear. Russia is on the path to collapse and there are little to no off ramps available.
I don't see how they get out of this without at least an attempt at full mobilization which would be humiliating for Russia if that is the case.

Only off ramp I see is if the people of the Govt come together and rebuke and remove Putin and end this and get a new leader.

Replace Putin or Full Mobilization. I think those are about the only two realistic options on the table. Either way, both spell the beginning of the End of Russia as a viable Global Power.
 

ramases2112

Federal Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Jun 28, 2008
11,547
5,606
1,743
31
Inside the Basket of Deplorables
www.reddit.com
I don't see how they get out of this without at least an attempt at full mobilization which would be humiliating for Russia if that is the case.

Only off ramp I see is if the people of the Govt come together and rebuke and remove Putin and end this and get a new leader.

Replace Putin or Full Mobilization. I think those are about the only two realistic options on the table. Either way, both spell the beginning of the End of Russia as a viable Global Power.
They havent been a global power since the 80s. After the Soviet Union broke up they are a fake power and frankly only a regional threat. The only reason they are threat to the US is because of their nuclear weapons. It's why we need to finish Russia off and get Ukraine into NATO. We need complete focus and all military assests move to the far east. We also need Germany and Japan to remove constitutional restrictions and build their militaries up to modern levels and even greater. The only way to stop future wars and continue the American hegemony is complete military and economic dominance.
 

Duke Silver

Find safe haven in a warm bathtub full of my jazz.
A/V Subscriber
Sep 17, 2004
32,504
14,586
1,743
Cozy's Bar
Before anyone says "Oh what about russia in WW2? They just threw bodies at the problem and beat the Germans!" That only worked because they were literally supplied with American steel and the fact that the Germans ran out of ammo and were fighting a two front war. If the Germans fought them on one front and the Americans didnt help the Russians, they would have conquered Russia with relative ease. The days of "throwing" bodies at the problem are long long past. This wont work with modern weapons. As long as NATO continues to supply arms, the Ukrainians will continue on the path toward complete liberation of held territories and victory.
Agree with almost all.
Always remember the germans used the wrong gun oil and their guns froze. Without that, the germans still either hold or advance.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
4,252
2,069
1,743
Phoenix, AZ
Definitely a move to full mobilization though I dont think that will actually accomplish anything. By the time Russia is able to train and equipment their conscripts(big if here), they will have lost most of the current territory they hold. Russia is already having difficulty equipping and maintaining the skeleton crew they have now. Let's not even take into account that conscripts are low morale poorly trained meat bags that will be running into fully trained by NATO Ukrainians equipped with the best gear. Russia is on the path to collapse and there are little to no off ramps available.
Got a good chuckle reading that article. Turning the separatists regions into Russia proper makes Ukraine the aggressor and using that as your excuse for conscription. I don't buy it. If they want to do a conscription, they can just do it. This is just a last ditch effort to claim some kind of victory as the Russians head out the door.

That said, it's also incredibly dangerous. I still fear a parting nuclear shot. Even if no one responded in kind, from a humanitarian perspective it would be devastating. It would also be the ultimate full circle.

"We have to save Ukraine from the Nazi's!"
"We have to nuke Ukraine to save it from the Nazi's."