Roundabouts. Stossel right again.

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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#4
In general, I like them. Stillwater sticking one on main street? STUPID!!
and there's one in Hays Kansas that I just dealt with this weekend that is just dumb. Called a roundabout but it's in the shape of an 8?? No crossing in the middle just the outline. Was very annoying.

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steross

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#5
In general, I like them. Stillwater sticking one on main street? STUPID!!
and there's one in Hays Kansas that I just dealt with this weekend that is just dumb. Called a roundabout but it's in the shape of an 8?? No crossing in the middle just the outline. Was very annoying.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Why is it more stupid than all those stupid stoplights on Main Street?
 

Boomer.....

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#6
They are safer and generally operate better than signals. However, they can be confusing to some and require a significant amount of right-of-way which isn't always available making them cost prohibitive.
 

oks10

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#8
I think they're nice when built large enough. The ones in midtown? Those are too small and with not enough visibility for people to enter and exit without having to slam their brakes as they approach. I spent some time in Maine a couple years ago and there was a much larger one on a 50mph state highway that was part of my drive every day and you could confidently and safely enter and exit that thing without having to drop below 40mph because there was not tall obstructions inside or out of it. You could clearly see the entire roundabout traffic from a decent distance before you even got to it.
 

steross

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#9
They are safer and generally operate better than signals. However, they can be confusing to some and require a significant amount of right-of-way which isn't always available making them cost prohibitive.
They are confusing because we do not have them. They are not confusing to the people that drive them everyday.
when built in the US, they often place a large middle garden/landscaping which is nice but does take up real estate. It doesn’t have to be that way for all.
 

steross

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#10
I think they're nice when built large enough. The ones in midtown? Those are too small and with not enough visibility for people to enter and exit without having to slam their brakes as they approach. I spent some time in Maine a couple years ago and there was a much larger one on a 50mph state highway that was part of my drive every day and you could confidently and safely enter and exit that thing without having to drop below 40mph because there was not tall obstructions inside or out of it. You could clearly see the entire roundabout traffic from a decent distance before you even got to it.
When do you go through a stop sign without slamming your brakes? Low visibilty stoplights are the deadly intersections.
 

Boomer.....

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#11
They are confusing because we do not have them. They are not confusing to the people that drive them everyday.
when built in the US, they often place a large middle garden/landscaping which is nice but does take up real estate. It doesn’t have to be that way for all.
I'm a traffic engineer, so know quite a bit about roundabouts. Cities around here are very hesitant to adopt them and in fact I made a push for one in Stillwater which didn't get much consideration at all. A properly designed roundabout must accommodate large vehicles including busses and large trucks. This can be handled by raised inner mountable aprons, but it still increases the diameter and right-of-way. You must have properly designed splitter islands to direct traffic and provide for pedestrians. Without all of these things, you essentially have poorly executed traffic circle which give roundabouts a bad name.
 
Dec 11, 2011
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#12
Yeah, I've dragged my dump trailer through the Stillwater Main street roundabout. It takes some skill & planning...
 

oks10

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#13
When do you go through a stop sign without slamming your brakes? Low visibilty stoplights are the deadly intersections.
I'm not making an argument against them, just stating what I observe of the ones in midtown, specifically that one next to Fassler. The point of a roundabout is to not always have to stop but I always end up behind the people that think those yield signs mean "if a single car is in the roundabout you must stop". Like you said, people that use them and know how to use them have no problem with them. It's the people that aren't used to them that make them a hassle. I'd love to see them more widely used.
 

steross

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#14
I'm a traffic engineer, so know quite a bit about roundabouts. Cities around here are very hesitant to adopt them and in fact I made a push for one in Stillwater which didn't get much consideration at all. A properly designed roundabout must accommodate large vehicles including busses and large trucks. This can be handled by raised inner mountable aprons, but it still increases the diameter and right-of-way. You must have properly designed splitter islands to direct traffic and provide for pedestrians. Without all of these things, you essentially have poorly executed traffic circle which give roundabouts a bad name.
Ok, i did t know your background. But, most people picture huge roundabouts like on the movies and that isn’t necessary. If it can be done in a small congested country like the UK, it could be done here. Not every intersection, of course.
 
Dec 11, 2011
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#15
I'm not making an argument against them, just stating what I observe of the ones in midtown, specifically that one next to Fassler. The point of a roundabout is to not always have to stop but I always end up behind the people that think those yield signs mean "if a single car is in the roundabout you must stop". Like you said, people that use them and know how to use them have no problem with them. It's the people that aren't used to them that make them a hassle. I'd love to see them more widely used.
Hell, Stillwater is the stoplight capital of the world, and you can still encounter people daily who have no idea how they work, so...

I love the new turn lane from Richmond onto 177N (Washington) between the two golf courses. That is the perfect example of something that should work wonderfully, but still gets screwed by dumbasses that pull up to the corner & stop to look for merge traffic (with at least 1/4 mile of their own private merge lane RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM)
 

oks10

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Ok, i did t know your background. But, most people picture huge roundabouts like on the movies and that isn’t necessary. If it can be done in a small congested country like the UK, it could be done here. Not every intersection, of course.
lol. I actually just pulled up both roundabouts I was referencing in my previous post on google maps and it looks like they're both actually the same size (Maine one is only slightly bigger)... For some reason that one in Maine is just so much easier to get through. It probably also doesn't help that the midtown one actually has 5 entrances to it instead of 4.

Midtown:
1622650095943.png

Maine:
1622650164252.png
 
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oks10

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Hell, Stillwater is the stoplight capital of the world, and you can still encounter people daily who have no idea how they work, so...

I love the new turn lane from Richmond onto 177N (Washington) between the two golf courses. That is the perfect example of something that should work wonderfully, but still gets screwed by dumbasses that pull up to the corner & stop to look for merge traffic (with at least 1/4 mile of their own private merge lane RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM)
Same thing happens here every single day... People coming from Downtown will stop right here (red X) if people are turning left onto the on ramp even there there's 2 lanes ALL THE WAY DOWN... I'd be so frustrated if I were coming from downtown everyday but luckily I come from the south.
1622649986753.png
 
Sep 12, 2008
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#18
Yeah, I've dragged my dump trailer through the Stillwater Main street roundabout. It takes some skill & planning...
A perfect example of a poorly done roundabout.

I lived in the greater Seattle area when they put in the very first roundabout. I didn't dig it a first, but they work great and are everywhere now.
 

TrevB11

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#19
Hell, Stillwater is the stoplight capital of the world, and you can still encounter people daily who have no idea how they work, so...

I love the new turn lane from Richmond onto 177N (Washington) between the two golf courses. That is the perfect example of something that should work wonderfully, but still gets screwed by dumbasses that pull up to the corner & stop to look for merge traffic (with at least 1/4 mile of their own private merge lane RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM)
I'm gonna guess you have never been to Enid?
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#20
I’ve lived with both. They are way better.
Hey!!! Carmel is where I lived for years and will be moving back to from AZ next year.

1) Roundabouts are awesome
2) It's pronounced "Car-mull", not "Car-mell"
3) They are safer, more efficient, and more beautiful than an intersection.
4) Watching newbies navigate them is hilarious.

1622651287294.png


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But the best part about Carmel is that it's crazy pedestrian and bike friendly.

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And yes... if you've watched Parks and Rec, Eagleton really is loosely based on Carmel.