Random Thoughts... and a Rant or Two... and Probably a Dead Horse Beating As Well

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Birry

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We’ve leveraging RB screens brilliantly so far this season, the 1 that sticks out the most was the first play vs Kstate. The other tips are all things we’re already doing.
Agreed. This is the first season I can remember in a while where we've run traditional RB screens effectively.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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What does the light coming on mean?


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It means not turning the ball over multiple times per game. It means not throwing the ball directly to defenders. That kind of stuff.
First multi-interception game this year and it’s coming off one of his best games ever. He’s still also making plays to actually win the game too, hence the 3 big time throws he had in the game after his 2nd interception mistake.

College kids can continue to improve throughout their entire career. Hence why NFL teams don’t think who they draft are finished products, and Joe Burrow broke out in his 5th college season.



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Sep 29, 2011
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We’ve leveraging RB screens brilliantly so far this season, the 1 that sticks out the most was the first play vs Kstate. The other tips are all things we’re already doing.
Agreed. This is the first season I can remember in a while where we've run traditional RB screens effectively.
FWIW there are and have always been a few NFL teams incapable of running an effective screen.


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Apr 12, 2020
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So here’s what defenses will do against SI. Press coverage with 6-7 rushing the QB. Press coverage because it reduces the options through progressions, is tougher on our overall inexperienced receivers, not worried about the QB run/s scramble and will force an inexperienced QB into mistakes. Further, SS running/scramble abilities almost forces the defense to play some sort of zone pass defense which opens up the shorter pass routes. Overall, going with SI is a worse option than sticking with SS. SI arm strength marginally if at all better than Sanders. SI height also really very little advantage. Also, we can assume SS is better and certainly more experienced reading defenses.

I’d also bet my paycheck the coaches know more than you or I, thus SS is at the top of the depth chart.


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This is actually 100% false.
Every single defense we play is going to run cover 1/3 and cover 0 on us with SS at QB. That’s exactly what Baylor did, the first int SS threw was because the corner was playing the flat in zone, SS thought it was cover 1 so he threw the out to the sideline.
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I don’t think that’s what happened. We have motion on the play, so the QB knows it’s zone. It looks like cover 2 to me, I mean the safety is just there hanging over the whole thing and the backers are in zone. I think what happened is that we expected the corner was supposed to play the down flat to cut the crossing route off and but the guys just sitting there watching Sanders eyes and backs up. Usually, that’s just a checkdown to the crosser because that CB vacated but Sanders wasn’t able to get there **on the progression fast enough because of the pressure.

It’s an absolutely abhorrent looking throw by Spence, but it’s never good when just a 4 man rush gets there quite that quick. Sanders panicked when he’s just gotta take a sack, but I think that CB just read it beautifully if he realized how fast the rush is getting there.


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Jan 15, 2017
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I don’t think that’s what happened. We have motion on the play, so the QB knows it’s zone. It looks like cover 2 to me, I mean the safety is just there hanging over the whole thing and the backers are in zone. I think what happened is that we expected the corner was supposed to play the down flat to cut the crossing route off and but the guys just sitting there watching Sanders eyes and backs up. Usually, that’s just a checkdown to the crosser because that CB vacated but Sanders wasn’t able to get there **on the progression fast enough because of the pressure.

It’s an absolutely abhorrent looking throw by Spence, but it’s never good when just a 4 man rush gets there quite that quick. Sanders panicked when he’s just gotta take a sack, but I think that CB just read it beautifully if he realized how fast the rush is getting there.


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The camera angle is absolutely awful on this play so I agree it’s hard to tell, you’re right the motion should have clued Sanders into knowing it’s zone but it looks like cover 3 to me. #8 is playing the boundary deep 1/3, #4 is playing the middle 1/3, and #22 is playing the field 1/3. It’s actually a bad choice by Presley in the slot, when you are running an out route you have to peek at the corner, when he is in zone, either 2 or 3, you have to shut down and sit instead of running towards the defender. That opens up a hole for the outside receiver to get the ball between the CB and the Safety over the top. It’s hard to tell who SS was throwing to because the throw was that bad. Rewatching it looks like Baylor pre snap looks like they are running cover 2 several times but their safety’s are always staggered instead of straight on line which is a clue that one is dropping deep and one is crashing. And post snap they definitely run almost exclusively cover 1/3.
 
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I don’t think that’s what happened. We have motion on the play, so the QB knows it’s zone. It looks like cover 2 to me, I mean the safety is just there hanging over the whole thing and the backers are in zone. I think what happened is that we expected the corner was supposed to play the down flat to cut the crossing route off and but the guys just sitting there watching Sanders eyes and backs up. Usually, that’s just a checkdown to the crosser because that CB vacated but Sanders wasn’t able to get there **on the progression fast enough because of the pressure.

It’s an absolutely abhorrent looking throw by Spence, but it’s never good when just a 4 man rush gets there quite that quick. Sanders panicked when he’s just gotta take a sack, but I think that CB just read it beautifully if he realized how fast the rush is getting there.


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The camera angle is absolutely awful on this play so I agree it’s hard to tell, you’re right the motion should have clued Sanders into knowing it’s zone but it looks like cover 3 to me. #8 is playing the boundary deep 1/3, #4 is playing the middle 1/3, and #22 is playing the field 1/3. It’s actually a bad choice by Presley in the slot, when you are running an out route you have to peek at the corner, when he is in zone, either 2 or 3, you have to shut down and sit instead of running towards the defender. That opens up a hole for the outside receiver to get the ball between the CB and the Safety over the top. It’s hard to tell who SS was throwing to because the throw was that bad. Rewatching it looks like Baylor pre snap looks like they are running cover 2 several times but their safety’s are always staggered instead of straight on line which is a clue that one is dropping deep and one is crashing. And post snap they definitely run almost exclusively cover 1/3.
I’m pretty certain he’s throwing to Owens, he just doesn’t have the arm to get it there cuz of his form in the face of pressure.

If it’s cover 3, wouldn’t #53 on Baylor be going to the flat?

I also don’t really understand how both #4 and #22 were so close by.


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Sep 29, 2011
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So here’s what defenses will do against SI. Press coverage with 6-7 rushing the QB. Press coverage because it reduces the options through progressions, is tougher on our overall inexperienced receivers, not worried about the QB run/s scramble and will force an inexperienced QB into mistakes. Further, SS running/scramble abilities almost forces the defense to play some sort of zone pass defense which opens up the shorter pass routes. Overall, going with SI is a worse option than sticking with SS. SI arm strength marginally if at all better than Sanders. SI height also really very little advantage. Also, we can assume SS is better and certainly more experienced reading defenses.

I’d also bet my paycheck the coaches know more than you or I, thus SS is at the top of the depth chart
Not sure if you're aware of this (seems like you aren't), but there are actually plays you can run to counter such an aggressive defense. Otherwise every pocket passer in the history of football could simply be shut down by rushing 6-7 players at them on every play.

A simple RB screen would gain massive yards against that defense.
Running vertical pass routes would put WRs in one-on-one everywhere, and could be a huge gain.
Inside WRs beating the man off the line with a slant could also be devastating.
Even a draw could work well if the RB got through the trash.
It’s our inexperience at WR combined with an OL that struggles at pass pro combined with SI inexperience combined with SI immobility that will result in a very large dose of 6-7 man rushes and press coverage.

Sure there are plays that can and will work, but our current personnel would struggle or be downright incapable even more so with SI at QB.


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Sep 29, 2011
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So here’s what defenses will do against SI. Press coverage with 6-7 rushing the QB. Press coverage because it reduces the options through progressions, is tougher on our overall inexperienced receivers, not worried about the QB run/s scramble and will force an inexperienced QB into mistakes. Further, SS running/scramble abilities almost forces the defense to play some sort of zone pass defense which opens up the shorter pass routes. Overall, going with SI is a worse option than sticking with SS. SI arm strength marginally if at all better than Sanders. SI height also really very little advantage. Also, we can assume SS is better and certainly more experienced reading defenses.

I’d also bet my paycheck the coaches know more than you or I, thus SS is at the top of the depth chart.


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This is actually 100% false.
Every single defense we play is going to run cover 1/3 and cover 0 on us with SS at QB. That’s exactly what Baylor did, the first int SS threw was because the corner was playing the flat in zone, SS thought it was cover 1 so he threw the out to the sideline. The second int SS threw was an overthrow to Presley running across the field with the Safety hanging in the middle of the field. This is the exact reason we CANNOT throw the ball across the middle BECAUSE the safety is in the middle and our big plays are throws to the boundaries or deep throws away from the middle safety.

You have it backwards, the absolutely ONLY way to get the defense into cover 2/4 is to have the ability to consistently throw deep balls down BOTH sides of the field. As our offense is right now, defenses are shading the safety to Tay Martins side of the field. Now you could argue that it has a lot to do with the fact that we haven’t established a #2 outside receiver on the opposite side of Martin in combination with SS’s limited arm strength and accuracy and that is valid. That is why the deep pass to Owens was open and that play may actually help open up our offense against future defenses.

This notion that a running QB “OPENS” up the defense more is only true if he can throw the ball to both sides of the field, otherwise you just bring a safety down in your run fits, play one safety deep, and you are covered.

I’m not saying SI is 100% a better downfield thrower than SS but that’s because we have no idea because SI has only played a limited number of games usually with only a week or two’s notice, obviously Gundy limits the playbook when SI starts because he doesn’t want to overwhelm him. For that reason I think we simply don’t know if SI would open the defense better or not. I think the only reason people question this is because Gundy has proved several times that he is reluctant to make any switch at QB even with the QB is hurt or the backup is better.
Do you not remember how we were told that Brandon Weeden was a terrible practice player and that was the reason he never moved up the depth chart? I think he turned out to be a pretty good player.
What’s false? Please explain


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Jan 15, 2017
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I’m pretty certain he’s throwing to Owens, he just doesn’t have the arm to get it there cuz of his form in the face of pressure.

If it’s cover 3, wouldn’t #53 on Baylor be going to the flat?

I also don’t really understand how both #4 and #22 were so close by.


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52? if it was a 4-3

B9E7A478-8152-4989-B620-276287690DF5.png

Looks like to me the corners are playing the flats, 2 linebackers in the middle and the 3 safety’s are playing 1/3.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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I’m pretty certain he’s throwing to Owens, he just doesn’t have the arm to get it there cuz of his form in the face of pressure.

If it’s cover 3, wouldn’t #53 on Baylor be going to the flat?

I also don’t really understand how both #4 and #22 were so close by.


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52? if it was a 4-3

View attachment 92403
Looks like to me the corners are playing the flats, 2 linebackers in the middle and the 3 safety’s are playing 1/3.
I’m pretty certain he’s throwing to Owens, he just doesn’t have the arm to get it there cuz of his form in the face of pressure.

If it’s cover 3, wouldn’t #53 on Baylor be going to the flat?

I also don’t really understand how both #4 and #22 were so close by.


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52? if it was a 4-3

View attachment 92403
Looks like to me the corners are playing the flats, 2 linebackers in the middle and the 3 safety’s are playing 1/3.
That’s a way better angle, is that from a replay?
Yeah 52. Okay, I see what you’re saying. I saw 4 rushers but it’s not an even front.

So, the right throw there is to check down to Tay on the crosser, correct? Looks like a pretty good amount of YAC space there. Sanders just didn’t get there cuz of pressure, and probably should have just taken the sack.


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Jan 15, 2017
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That’s a way better angle, is that from a replay?
Yeah 52. Okay, I see what you’re saying. I saw 4 rushers but it’s not an even front.

So, the right throw there is to check down to Tay on the crosser, correct? Looks like a pretty good amount of YAC space there. Sanders just didn’t get there cuz of pressure, and probably should have just taken the sack.


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Ya like a minute after the int they show a replay from that angle. Another second or so and I think SS would have seen Tay coming across, it was a 3rd and 6 but I’m sure he would have made it or got pretty close.
 
Nov 12, 2007
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Again, SS has been here FOUR years. When is the light going to come on?
You say that as if he's been here, healthy and playing for four years. The way you develop as a quarterback is by consistently starting, year-over-year.

In his four years here, Sanders has dealt with:
  • Three different offensive coordinators.
  • Missed multiple games due to injury.
  • Missed and entire Spring practice session (and likely many other practices) and a shortened season due to Covid.
All of these things would be a problem for any young QB trying to build rhythm and confidence. Sanders has shown what he can do when he gets consistent starts and stays healthy. He's the best option we have right now. Period.

If - and I know that's a big "if" - he can stay healthy and string togehter a full season of starts this year, you'll see him really blossom.
 
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I don’t think that’s what happened. We have motion on the play, so the QB knows it’s zone. It looks like cover 2 to me, I mean the safety is just there hanging over the whole thing and the backers are in zone. I think what happened is that we expected the corner was supposed to play the down flat to cut the crossing route off and but the guys just sitting there watching Sanders eyes and backs up. Usually, that’s just a checkdown to the crosser because that CB vacated but Sanders wasn’t able to get there **on the progression fast enough because of the pressure.

It’s an absolutely abhorrent looking throw by Spence, but it’s never good when just a 4 man rush gets there quite that quick. Sanders panicked when he’s just gotta take a sack, but I think that CB just read it beautifully if he realized how fast the rush is getting there.


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Great analysis. It's easy just to point at the QB1 and say a different QB is the answer to all our problems. But if an offense is sputtering, it's usually more than one thing. Is the offense line protecting the QB or moving bodies for the ground game? Are the running backs (not just Warren) keeping the backers honest? Are the receivers running good routes and catching the ball? Is the OC identifying tendencies and weaknesses in the defense and taking advantage of them? Is he learning about these things as the game develops? All these things and more need to work for an offense to matriculate the ball up the field. Sanders has made some mistakes, yes, but it's not just him. And we're 5-0.
 
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1. Never said we can’t win with SI. We just happen to be on a 7-game win streak with SS. Further, IMO, he gives us the best chance to win.

2. Did someone in authority tell you that, or is that just wild ass speculation? Oh, every team needs a couple of backups.

3. We are run heavy, but not at QB - which is what I was describing. SS is averaging about 10 runs a game - only a little over half are designed QB runs.


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We been winning with the D .
 

PokeJ

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1. Never said we can’t win with SI. We just happen to be on a 7-game win streak with SS. Further, IMO, he gives us the best chance to win.

2. Did someone in authority tell you that, or is that just wild ass speculation? Oh, every team needs a couple of backups.

3. We are run heavy, but not at QB - which is what I was describing. SS is averaging about 10 runs a game - only a little over half are designed QB runs.


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We been winning with the D .
“Not that there’s anything wrong with that”


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Jul 9, 2011
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Yes there was one play where the RB cut inside the tackle instead of pickup up the edge rusher. I don't remember which play was which, but there was also one where the play was going to the right, everyone was focused to the right, and the DB came in unimpeded from the left.
I've seen this several times - it appears to me we have some plays schemed so that we leave somebody unblocked, a LB (or even a DL) on the side the play is not going in order to have a blocking advantage at the point of attack. If that unblocked player crashes in and is quick enough they can blow up the play from the back side. Especially for LB's, this blocking scheme will work only if there is enough of a pass threat to force the LB to hold for a bit, just a second or two, in case it's fake handoff and ultimately a passing play.