Program Identity?

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Rack

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#41
With all due respect, this is nonsensical. You can’t have a creative offensive scheme that’s difficult to defend, as opposed to a plodding, predictable offense, without cheating? I’m not overreacting to this game—didn’t see it, but anyone who’s watched our program over the last few years has seen that we’ve gotten away from the DH/Monken offenses that we once hung our hat on. To suggest that a program has to cheat to have an offensive pulse is ridiculous. Do we also have to cheat to have a decent return game?
I didn't say that...I said that MOST others in front of us cheat and have in massive ways historically. It gave them an huge unfair advantage historically and thus they are now "blue bloods" with enormous monster fanbases. We aren't at that level due to that huge historical advantage built on by, yes, cheating and bending the rules to get ahead. We, at #10,11 in the last decade despite NOT bending the rules is a HUGE honor and something we should enjoy. Complain all you want, it was one game...we are still a good offensive team when at full strength...that and our new defense is why we win so much. Sure we could use some better offense...and we will see it next week. I'm not worried in the slightest because of perspective on this last game. It's one game, we had a ton of guys out, it was MSU's super bowl, they played a bunch of real life spring games, they have a cheater for a coach, they had 15 D1 transfers...lots of reasons why it was like it was...saw it going in.
 

CowboyHoopsPride

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#42
This thread is derailing a little which I was worried about. Not complaining just an observation.

What do you want the identify to be? A balanced attack on offense which we have achieved down to the yard before. High flying throw it all over the yard air raid? Defense first?

Let me rephrase, when the announcers come on, what do you want them to say we're known for as an opponent?

I want people to fear playing us because they know we're trying to, and with a high rate of success can, score on every single play. (Please be nuanced here.) I want people trying to grind out the clock against us because they know their best defense is one that keeps our offense off the field. I like the huge yardage tallies, big points and watching other teams lose their minds because someone is always wide open or if they make one mistake at the line the RB is gone. That's my preference. That is fun to me. I love what our defense is doing the last couple of years but if it's up to me, I want the ball last in a game where last team to touch it wins. It's exciting, crowd is always dialed in because you know something amazing is about to happen. I liked how we opened the MoSt game.

However, if we are going to grind games down and be "boring" (I don't disagree with that term sometimes) why not go all in like Army. Snap it with less than 3 on the play clock every time. Really tighten the screws if you will and take away possessions from the other team. They way the BIG seems to play.

The Wisconsin/PSU game was "boring" if you like offense. Still a fun game with a fun atmosphere. So was UGA/Clemson. None of those teams would slow down Bama or ou right now. The defenses weren't as elite as much as the offenses sucked. But maybe that's who they are.

I loved the FSU/Notre Dame game. That's the one I would have paid money to see.

We seem to be in the middle somewhere which is where the identity question comes into play.

I'll give you another one, I want the other team to know we're coming to physically beat them up. You may beat us, but you're going to have 10 guys in the training room on Sunday and maybe missing a day of practice or two. A hard hat, blue collar as someone said, lunch pail team. Might be 55-45, might be 10-7, win or lose your team walks off saying that is the most physical, tough, mean SOB team they play all year. I would spend all the monies for that. And it would start up front with our o line. They set the tone. Big nasties that choose violence when they wake up and get to the game in a bad mood.

This isn't about doing things the right way and not hiring Art Briles or his kid. I don't think anyone would argue that and it's an emotional unrelated response. It's about who you want to be known as when the other teams and fans see our name on the schedule. It's also not to critique where we are right now, I am asking because of where we are right now. We're somewhere in the middle. Maybe that is the spot people like.

I hope this makes more sense. Feel free to add examples of styles or programs with reputations that fit what you like.
 
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Rack

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#43
I get where you're coming from, but let me frame it a different way. We've been able to achieve and sustain success at a very high level in wrestling, baseball, and golf, and STILL maintain our integrity and pride; so tell me why fans and the administration cannot expect the same from football?
Colorado did a great job on this already, but I would take it even further as to say it's really hard to overcome the head start that others have in terms of fan interest even if you don't count the "not playing by the rules" part over the past 100 years. Our greatest problem has ALWAYS been ou...ou football was built over 100 years of car dealers (and later others) funding it, media touting it as the states football team, and massive state money thrown at it, while our AD (Iba at the time) refused the funding and sent those offering it away because of amateurism. This set us back in football as the school that didn't agree to the under the table method of funding and held on to the armature status appearance in the sport. Us being in Stillwater and not close to the states largest city, also held us back as we didn't become the states football program of pride and bragging rights on a national stage as set up by local media, government, and business funding. Btw, this was done by the State in order to bring "positive" attention to Oklahoma. This is why we are where we are, and considering these FACTS it's amazing we are where we are at all. This doesn't mean we shouldn't always strive to be the very best...we have and are...that's the point I'm making.
 
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CowboyHoopsPride

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#44
Colorado did a great job on this already, but I would take it even further as to say it's really hard to overcome the head start that others have in terms of fan interest even if you don't count the "not playing by the rules" part over the past 100 years. Our greatest problem has ALWAYS been ou...ou football was built over 100 years of car dealers (and later others) funding it, media touting it as the states football team, and massive state money thrown at it, while our AD (Iba at the time) refused the funding and sent those offering it away because of amateurism. This set us back in football as the school that didn't agree to the under the table method of funding and held on to the armature status appearance in the sport. Us being in Stillwater and not close to the states largest city, also held us back as we didn't become the states football program of pride and bragging rights on a national stage as set up by local media, government, and business funding. This is why we are where we are, and considering these FACTS it's amazing we are where we are at all. This doesn't mean we shouldn't always strive to be the very best...we have and are...that's the point I'm making.
Pat Jones used to say all the time that if OSU was in Sapulpa for examples we'd have a 90K+ seat stadium and things would be completely different. I don't know if that's real and I love Stillwater but I thought it was interesting.
 

Rack

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#45
This thread is derailing a little which I was worried about. Not complaining just an observation.

What do you want the identify to be? A balanced attack on offense which we have achieved down to the yard before. High flying throw it all over the yard air raid? Defense first?

Let me rephrase, when the announcers come on, what do you want them to say we're known for as an opponent?

I want people to fear playing us because they know we're trying to, and with a high rate of success can, score on every single play. (Please be nuanced here.) I want people trying to grind out the clock against us because they know their best defense is one that keeps our offense off the field. I like the huge yardage tallies, big points and watching other teams lose their minds because someone is always wide open or if they make one mistake at the line the RB is gone. That's my preference. That is fun to me. I love what our defense is doing the last couple of years but if it's up to me, I want the ball last in a game where last team to touch it wins. It's exciting, crowd is always dialed in because you know something amazing is about to happen. I liked how we opened the MoSt game.

However, if we are going to grind games down and be "boring" (I don't disagree with that term sometimes) why not go all in like Army. Snap it with less than 3 on the play clock every time. Really tighten the screws if you will and take away possessions from the other team. They way the BIG seems to play.

The Wisconsin/PSU game was "boring" if you like offense. Still a fun game with a fun atmosphere. So was UGA/Clemson. None of those teams would slow down Bama or ou right now. The defenses weren't as elite as much as the offenses sucked. But maybe that's who they are.

I loved the FSU/Notre Dame game. That's the one I would have paid money to see.

We seem to be in the middle somewhere which is where the identity question comes into play.

I'll give you another one, I want the other team to know we're coming to physically beat them up. You may beat us, but you're going to have 10 guys in the training room on Sunday and maybe missing a day of practice or two. A hard hat, blue collar as someone said, lunch pail team. Might be 55-45, might be 10-7, win or lose your team walks off saying that is the most physical, tough, mean SOB team they play all year. I would spend all the monies for that. And it would start up front with our o line. They set the tone. Big nasties that choose violence when they wake up and get to the game in a bad mood.

This isn't about doing things the right way and not hiring Art Briles or his kid. I don't think anyone would argue that and it's an emotional unrelated response. It's about who you want to be known as when the other teams and fans see our name on the schedule. It's also not to critique where we are right now, I am asking because of where we are right now. We're somewhere in the middle. Maybe that is the spot people like.

I hope this makes more sense. Feel free to add examples of styles or programs with reputations that fit what you like.
I want to continue to be known for exactly as we are ALREADY known...we are a great program in a backwoods area. We have maybe the best strength and conditioning program in the country and we get the most out of our less than five star players than likely ANY team in the country. We have perhaps the best suited coach for a program of any program currently nationally. This IS what we are know for...that some of our fans don't realize that is the issue...not that we don't have an identity. It's not an emotional reaction, it's the truth. Our identity is that we are always compared to another school and can't SEE our own identity because of that shadow. Our own fans don't help in this sometimes.

Btw, I absolutely LOVE our identity.
 
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andylicious

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#46
Do you take joy in the program? If not, I suggest you just tailgate and don't go to the game. As fans we are to support the program, we make no changes in the offense or who is even the coach...our job is to be fans and to have a positive attitude and perspective on the program. I'm not being "despairing" I'm just being honest and realistic about how I feel about fans who overreact to one game. It was one game...SO, UNLESS you (or me) are a huge donner like Boone was, we have no say in the matters.
So no one is allowed an opinion even though we show up and pay our donations. What a sad attitude.
 

Rack

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#47
So no one is allowed an opinion even though we show up and pay our donations. What a sad attitude.
I'm allowed mine as well...Didn't say you aren't allowed it...friends can say yours sucks and makes no difference when we don't agree and you can say mine does as well...doesn't really change our opinions but we all get to voice them in this free country. I'm not saying we aren't all fans really, just saying that it might be better to be more positive about things when they are good. Just an opinion like yours.
 

CowboyHoopsPride

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#48
I want to continue to be known for exactly as we are ALREADY known for...we are a great program in a backwoods area. We have maybe the best strength and conditioning program in the country and we get the most out of our less than five star players than likely ANY team in the country. This IS what we are know for...that some of our fans don't realize that is the issue...not that we don't have an identity. It's not an emotional reaction, it's the truth. Our identity is that we are always compared to another school and can't SEE our own identity because of that shadow. Our own fans don't help in this sometimes.

Btw, I absolutely LOVE our identity.
I hear you but are you sure that's how we're seen across the country? I am not sure anyone else outside of Stillwater or the orange family cares about those things. We do for sure and I wouldn't argue that. Hell Thayer Evans attempted a take down saying we were all the things we're not. It was debunked, thousands of people responded from all over the country that is was fake, and then it disappeared. Next game was about how fast the offense would score again.

Flip it around. When we were lighting up the scoreboard and winning games close high scoring games, I could argue our national identity was that we didn't care to or know how to play defense. There were shots of our head coach/OC not even watching his defense play. Was it a fair critique, I don't know but as much as we were known for offense we were laughed at on defense. That's the question I am trying to get to a better understanding of from the fans. Maybe identity is the wrong word, swap it out with style maybe.
 

Rack

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#49
I hear you but are you sure that's how we're seen across the country? I am not sure anyone else outside of Stillwater or the orange family cares about those things. We do for sure and I wouldn't argue that. Hell Thayer Evans attempted a take down saying we were all the things we're not. It was debunked, thousands of people responded from all over the country that is was fake, and then it disappeared. Next game was about how fast the offense would score again.

Flip it around. When we were lighting up the scoreboard and winning games close high scoring games, I could argue our national identity was that we didn't care to or know how to play defense. There were shots of our head coach/OC not even watching his defense play. Was it a fair critique, I don't know but as much as we were known for offense we were laughed at on defense. That's the question I am trying to get to a better understanding of from the fans. Maybe identity is the wrong word, swap it out with style maybe.
"College football 2021 stability rankings -- Rating all 130 FBS teams by coaches, roster and performance (espn.com)

3. Oklahoma State: 40.2 (20.0 coach stability, 11.7 roster stability, 8.5 performance stability)
Mike Gundy took over in Stillwater in 2005 and has led the Cowboys to unprecedented levels of sustained success. He brings both coordinators back, and while they do have some key pieces to replace on offense, they've lost only eight players to the portal over the past year, which is tied for 25th-fewest. The culture and roster are in solid shape, even if it's been a few years since they threatened for a conference title. Nothing in the Big 12 could be considered genuinely stable these days, but for the 2021 season, OSU is as close as it gets."


This is what I want for our program. As far as style I want us to win a lot more than lose and to go to bowls and win them...this is what builds long term stability in football. I want us viewed nationally as a long term always stable program and always argue for stability over flash. Flash might get you a 1976 or a 1988 (followed by probation), but it didn't build 2011...stability built 2011 and continues to build what we have had nearly every year of the Gundy tenure. So, I'd say I want our identity to be Stability and Long Term success.. which is what we are building and have been for 15 years.

You said you want to get a feel for the fans and an understanding, I'd say half of us are like me and just love the fact we are stable...others who weren't raised on OSU football or are younger may say they want more flash...I'd say the fans are split somewhat on this with many perpetually upset with Gundy while others of us are so thrilled we don't understand those that are upset. Neither is 100% wrong or 100% right...we both have our points. We are just two sides to the identity coin of Cowboy football, but I argue it's why we struggle, in our own minds, with identity. All that said, I'm proud of the above...and I bet every fan can agree that's something to be somewhat proud of...our levels of pride however very from person to person.
 
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#50
Do you take joy in the program? If not, I suggest you just tailgate and don't go to the game. As fans we are to support the program, we make no changes in the offense or who is even the coach...our job is to be fans and to have a positive attitude and perspective on the program. I'm not being "despairing" I'm just being honest and realistic about how I feel about fans who overreact to one game. It was one game...SO, UNLESS you (or me) are a huge donner like Boone was, we have no say in the matters.
That is so far removed from reality I'm not sure where to begin.
 

Rack

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#53
I'm not saying it's entirely up to the fans, but they most certainly have the ability to influence decisions by the suits.
Sure they do, I'm just typically not in favor of the ways they attempt to do it by boycotting the very thing they think they are helping...IMHO, that's counter productive. I'm a big believer in letting those hired do their jobs until their bosses decide they are not. I don't really see it as my place...now If I was a HUGE donor like Boone I would likely feel differently....
 

CowboyHoopsPride

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#54
"College football 2021 stability rankings -- Rating all 130 FBS teams by coaches, roster and performance (espn.com)

3. Oklahoma State: 40.2 (20.0 coach stability, 11.7 roster stability, 8.5 performance stability)
Mike Gundy took over in Stillwater in 2005 and has led the Cowboys to unprecedented levels of sustained success. He brings both coordinators back, and while they do have some key pieces to replace on offense, they've lost only eight players to the portal over the past year, which is tied for 25th-fewest. The culture and roster are in solid shape, even if it's been a few years since they threatened for a conference title. Nothing in the Big 12 could be considered genuinely stable these days, but for the 2021 season, OSU is as close as it gets."


This is what I want for our program. As far as style I want us to win a lot more than lose and to go to bowls and win them...this is what builds long term stability in football. I want us viewed national as a long term always stable program and always argue for stability over flash. Flash might get you a 1976 or a 1988 (followed by probation), but it didn't build 2011...stability built 2011 and continues to build what we have had nearly every year of the Gundy tenure. So, I'd say I want our identity to be Stability and Long Term success.. which is what we are building and have been for 15 years.

You said you want to get a feel for the fans and an understanding, I'd say half of us are like me and just love the fact we are stable...others who weren't raised on OSU football or are younger may say they want more flash...I'd say the fans are split somewhat on this with many perpetually upset with Gundy while others of us are so thrilled we don't understand those that are upset. Neither is 100% wrong or 100% right...we both have our points. We are just two sides to the identity coin of Cowboy football, but I argue it's why we struggle, in our own minds, with identity. All that said, I'm proud of the above...and I bet every fan can agree that's something to be somewhat proud of...our levels of pride however very from person to person.
I do like the culture references. In my book Breese Hall stole that last year after ISU beat texas with his 5* culture reference.
 
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#55
To be clear Gundy didn’t bring the uptempo offense. OSU got beat by Houston at home and the offensive coordinator for Houston that day was Dana Holgerson. Gundy hired Holgy and Brandon Weeden was the perfect fit. Rudolph was able to run that type of offense, Chelf ran it pretty well. If your watching the ole Miss game tonight that’s what OSU used to be. The offense right now looks confused on who they want to be.
Pretty sure Gundy hired Fedora to run a no-huddle, spread offense here.
 
Jun 13, 2010
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#56
Why must you label people disparingly? I walked the same halls you did around the time you did, my family are proud alumni of the State's university, but we have a boring offensive football program. I don't want to fire Gundy but he needs to step it up.
The Gundy lovers are out for blood anytime fans complain en masse...

You're gonna take Gundy and like it.
 

andylicious

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#58
I am of the opinion that Gundy has done a good job, but Gundy loves him some Gundy. In his presser he said "it's the same set of plays we have ran forever". That's arrogance and laziness with zero innovation. The opinion that the people spending their hard earned money and time to show up, give donations, and support a football team don't have any right to expect to be listened to really makes me wonder why I do those things.

If someone is saying that on a message board then the attitude in the offices is similar. I don't donate millions, but I donate alot. Now the question is do I give the double bird and put more in my Roth or do I keep showing up? The double bird and Roth is sounding better all the time. Thanks Rack, you may have cost OSU a booster cause I will not be a shorn lamb.
 
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#59
I am of the opinion that Gundy has done a good job, but Gundy loves him some Gundy. In his presser he said "it's the same set of plays we have ran forever". That's arrogance and laziness with zero innovation. The opinion that the people spending their hard earned money and time to show up, give donations, and support a football team don't have any right to expect to be listened to really makes me wonder why I do those things.

If someone is saying that on a message board then the attitude in the offices is similar. I don't donate millions, but I donate alot. Now the question is do I give the double bird and put more in my Roth or do I keep showing up? The double bird and Roth is sounding better all the time. Thanks Rack, you may have cost OSU a booster cause I will not be a shorn lamb.
Yea, that quote was a little off-putting to me as well. Made me think back to the walk out of the stadium back to the car after the 2010 Cotton Bowl. It's not the first time he's said that either, so it does make you think the opposing DC's aren't going to be challenged much by our offense.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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#60
I think everybody here is confusing identity with our own observations. I’m not saying anyone is wrong when they say we’re boring, but I would tell them we as diehard fans are a little too close to see the big picture.

Our on-the-field football identity is without a doubt being one of the premier air it out teams in the country. Neutrals think of us and they think of outstanding WRs, really good QBs, and games with a final score of 60-50. That’s the type of ball we’ve played at our highest heights.

If you’re one of the people who answered that we’re boring, this isn’t to counter you. At times we have been boring in the last 2 years and I think greatly to our detriment. Teams are better when they lean into their identity and we need to lean into ours. Dramatically reduce the run plays on first down. No more 2 Cowboyback formations, and let Sanders cook cuz if you try to hold him back he’ll just push against the restraint.


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