PAC 12 Expansion talks again

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OrangeFan69

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#21
Why would anyone in their right mind want to be in the PAC? No one cares about the PAC, and no one watches it.

I get the SEC, but the PAC? lol.

The Big 12's payout is way higher than the PAC. If anything, the Big 12 should raid them for the 2 arz schools, but im not sure they're even a take.
really need to expand east where the eyeballs and cash are.
The Big 12 is Texas’s name and Oklahoma’s accomplishments and 8 other schools that have relegated themselves to Beta roles because they won’t stand up to either.

I’m a strong proponent of joining an actual conference, but still playing non-conference games both in and against Texas.
 
Sep 9, 2013
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#22
The Big 12 is Texas’s name and Oklahoma’s accomplishments and 8 other schools that have relegated themselves to Beta roles because they won’t stand up to either.

I’m a strong proponent of joining an actual conference, but still playing non-conference games both in and against Texas.
I don't get that. Texas does seem to get calls in football, but WVU hasnt been in the conference all that long. WVU actually has a winning record against Texas, and while WVU and the Cowboys were both cheated out of wins against Texas last season, I dont think Texas has any more clout than Ohio State does in the big 10.

The SEC has too many elite programs for any one school to rule the roost, and the SEC would be a huge step up from the Big 12. That said, the PAC is the worst conference, and plays games after kost of America is asleep. They have no fans like Oklahoma State, WVU, Iowa State, or Texas tech.

And you would not be a cultural fit, and that would be far worse than putting up with Texas, who is fun to beat.
Texas may have been a bully before WVU got into the conference, but they are not too bad. The YV deal they have was great 5 years ago, but 15 million a year for 3rd tier rights isnt much more than OU, WVU, and Kansas get. WVU was at 13 last I looked. You add 13 million to the conference payout and it is way more than the ACC or PAC 12. Yeah, Texas gets a bit more, but the fact is they are a huge school with a monstrous fan base.
 

OrangeFan69

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#23
As stated earlier; I’d rather be in the SEC; I’d prefer the ACC if Notre Dame joins. The Big 10 ain’t happening ( and would also be a significant upgrade)

The Big 12 is a coward’s league and by us allowing Texas and Oklahoma to squeeze fellow members out; we have no leverage. If the PAC increases market share; they can renegotiate their TV contracts and live sports are one of the few assets cable carriers can profit from.

If some combination of Oklahoma State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Houston, Oklahoma, Iowa State, Kansas State, New Mexico were to join the PAC-12 and we could gain recruiting inroads to California along with maintaining Texas relationships with a more egalitarian conference we’d be in a much better position.

The Big 12 has very early 2000’s Big East vibes.
 
Sep 9, 2013
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#24
you cant miss what you never had, and WVU was never in a conference with colo. nebraska, mizzou, or Aggies. That said, none of those schools is year in and year out better than Oklahoma State and TCU. shrug.

And how much better is Nebraska and colo than Texas Tech or Kstate?
Nebraska is a shadow of its former self, and that's not going to change. Be careful what you wish for if you're yearning for the PAC 12.

As a WVU fan, I dont think the ACC even with Notre Dame would be that great for WVU. Big 12 makes more money than the ACC, and the ACC splits the pie with a bunch of private schools with no fan bases. At least the Big 12, outside of TCU and Baylor, are all state schools with big fan bases.

Id like for WVU to get a SEC invite, but, while that would mean a better conference, the chances of winning that league are low. And with the CFP expanding, the best bet is to remain in the big 12, win that every 5 years or so, and get a shot at the playoffs.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#26
As stated earlier; I’d rather be in the SEC; I’d prefer the ACC if Notre Dame joins. The Big 10 ain’t happening ( and would also be a significant upgrade)

The Big 12 is a coward’s league and by us allowing Texas and Oklahoma to squeeze fellow members out; we have no leverage. If the PAC increases market share; they can renegotiate their TV contracts and live sports are one of the few assets cable carriers can profit from.

If some combination of Oklahoma State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Houston, Oklahoma, Iowa State, Kansas State, New Mexico were to join the PAC-12 and we could gain recruiting inroads to California along with maintaining Texas relationships with a more egalitarian conference we’d be in a much better position.

The Big 12 has very early 2000’s Big East vibes.
No idea where this is coming from and would like to know who is purportedly "talking about it".

The PAC12 makes no sense. Throw some numbers at you.

Average distance to the PAC12 schools from Stillwater = 1170 miles
Average distance to the B12 schools from Stillwater = 354 miles (277 miles if you throw out WVU). A little fun fact too, it is only 40 more miles from Stillwater to Ames as it is to Austin)

Distance to WVU from Stillwater which everyone agrees is a stupid conference member to have in regard to geography = 965
Meanwhile every PAC12 school in California, Oregon and Washington are a minimum of 300 miles MORE than from Stillwater to WVU.

Geography matters.

Fans have to travel and we all know from experience how few people used to travel to Boulder.

We would be the only school in the Central Time Zone and during daylight savings time, ten of the schools are in the Pacific Time Zone. Two hours difference from the OSU market. As such, we would have ZERO say in when games are played because we would be the smallest market with the possible exception of the Pullman/Moscow region. FOX runs a PAC 12 game every Saturday that begins anywhere between 7:00-9:00 here. OSU fans at home would be watching games that do not get over until 1:00 AM or later.

And as for money, according to USA Today, in 2019 (not counting the last two years because Covid screwed them up), revenue was
B10 --- $55.6M/team
SEC --- $45.3M/team
B12 --- $38.2-$42M/team
PAC12 --- $32.2M/team
ACC --- $27.6-34M/team

You can postulate all you want about future contracts, but no contract is going to be significantly increased because a team a thousand miles away that 99% of the market could not care less about is now part of the package.

As for the kids, we will never seriously draw a significant amount of talent from PAC12 country because the kids have so many local options. Yes, there are some notable exceptions, but let us stick to the norms, not the anomalies. Hell, we get very few Top 50 kids out of Texas and it is right next door. Location is a HUGE draw for kids, not all, but most. They want family to be able to attend and since it is on their nickel, be able to hop in a car and drive a couple hours to get home, not have to pay over $1000 a trip to hop a plane home. Furthermore, OSU is not even a blip on the radar for most kids on the West Coast. They have grown up dreaming of playing for their local favorites they see on TV every weekend. Put it to you this way, when was the last time you saw a PAC12 game here that does not have a big name playing? We will not be considered a big name and would be lucky to get 1-2 games a year on national TV.

Yeah, brilliant!!! Let us join a conference half a continent away, be the proverbial red-headed step kid, reduce our media exposure and make less money.
 
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oSuAusTex

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#27
I still laugh at Nebraska.

Growing up in the Big 8 then Big 12 time, Nebraska was almost always in the national spotlight football wise.

Now a days, it is amazing how small they are on the national football stage.
 

OrangeFan69

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#28
I still laugh at Nebraska.

Growing up in the Big 8 then Big 12 time, Nebraska was almost always in the national spotlight football wise.

Now a days, it is amazing how small they are on the national football stage.
They haven't been the same since firing Solich for Callahan. I thought at the time leaving Bo Pellini as head coach was the right move. I am surprised Scott Frost has had so much trouble there. He had a legitimate pedigree and local support.

I feel they were adversely hurt by joining the Big 12 in a collateral damage move; by diminishing their co-big dog status enjoyed in the Big 8. But firing Solich too early hurt them even more.

I don't know they are salvageable to become a major college football brand again. If Scott Frost can't do it; I am not sure who can re-energize that program. It takes a while to turn a ship like that. Texas has had a similar run of bleh most of the 2010's; But they are padded by a more recent national championship. much more fertile recruiting grounds, and ransom proceeds from the Longhorn Network (at the expense of he rest of the Big 12)
 

OctaviusRexLTH

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#29
They haven't been the same since firing Solich for Callahan. I thought at the time leaving Bo Pellini as head coach was the right move. I am surprised Scott Frost has had so much trouble there. He had a legitimate pedigree and local support.

I feel they were adversely hurt by joining the Big 12 in a collateral damage move; by diminishing their co-big dog status enjoyed in the Big 8. But firing Solich too early hurt them even more.

I don't know they are salvageable to become a major college football brand again. If Scott Frost can't do it; I am not sure who can re-energize that program. It takes a while to turn a ship like that. Texas has had a similar run of bleh most of the 2010's; But they are padded by a more recent national championship. much more fertile recruiting grounds, and ransom proceeds from the Longhorn Network (at the expense of he rest of the Big 12)
Texas could probably be as bad as Kansas for a decade and still reel in more cash than anyone else.

I never really understood how Nebraska was so dominant in the 80s and 90s. They are in the middle of nowhere, farther away from fertile recruiting grounds than even Iowa State. Just a bunch of big cornfed dudes? I know OU and Alabama aren't in the very middle of a recruiting hotbed, but they're much closer to Florda/Texas/Georgia etc than Nebraska is to anything at all
 

OrangeFan69

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#30
Texas could probably be as bad as Kansas for a decade and still reel in more cash than anyone else.

I never really understood how Nebraska was so dominant in the 80s and 90s. They are in the middle of nowhere, farther away from fertile recruiting grounds than even Iowa State. Just a bunch of big cornfed dudes? I know OU and Alabama aren't in the very middle of a recruiting hotbed, but they're much closer to Florda/Texas/Georgia etc than Nebraska is to anything at all
They got by in tradition, old scholarship limits and being an early TV team from their OU games and Orange Bowl games. Their annual trips to Miami helped them stockpile skill position guys and offering 100+ scholarships allowed them to build their linemen on an as-needed basis
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#31
So I actually read the article.

Lo and behold, this "talk" is nothing more than newspaper fodder by Pete Fiutak following the first press conference to introduce the P12's new commissioner (which in itself could turn out to be intriguing as the guy does not have a sports background but a digital media background in addition to most recently being the entertainment--not gaming--director for MGM Resorts). After listening to the webcast, the new P12 commissioner said nothing about expansion of the P12 one way or the other during his initial press conference with his clearly stated three priorities being NIL, CFB expansion and sports betting. Fiutak's article, that he is busy making the rounds on podcast interviews to promote, even states he has no validation as to expansion being on the table one way or another. To add further credence to the ignorance of the speculation is #1 on his list of candidates to target...OU. Ain't gonna happen.

And if you watch the video, I could swear the UO President is Ben Stein's long-lost brother.
 
Sep 6, 2012
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#32
Why wouldn't Oklahoma State want to be in the Pac 12?
If there is an SEC or even ACC invite, we should absolutely take it! (there won't be a Big 10 invite)
What about the non revenue sports. Football and Basketball is where most of the revenue in generated for all sports. You would add a ton to travel increases for the programs and the fans. I know you said 2 texas games, but would that not hurt Texas recruiting? I mean , sure we could draw from the west coast. Do we have the stroke to pull a west coast kid from Cal and the likes? I think that would hurt recruiting, Moms and Dads want to see their kids play. Sure they can watch it on TV, but that is not the same as watching your kids live in any sporting event.
 
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#33
Giving UT the middle finger sounds great, but the SEC is the only conference that makes any kind of sense geographically. They aren't calling, but if they brought us and OU, we'd have four schools either in the same state or a neighboring one (Mizzou, OU, Arkansas, and A&M). Assuming we'd play in a reshaped west division, with LSU and the two Mississippi schools, that could be workable. The better situation would be texas making some concessions so that we could add to the Big 12, but no major school wants to join us now and that school in austin isn't making concessions either. We're likely stuck next to the Pac 12 as a bottom feeder for a while.
 

OrangeFan69

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#35
What about the non revenue sports. Football and Basketball is where most of the revenue in generated for all sports. You would add a ton to travel increases for the programs and the fans. I know you said 2 texas games, but would that not hurt Texas recruiting? I mean , sure we could draw from the west coast. Do we have the stroke to pull a west coast kid from Cal and the likes? I think that would hurt recruiting, Moms and Dads want to see their kids play. Sure they can watch it on TV, but that is not the same as watching your kids live in any sporting event.
Non revenue sports don't have to be in the same conference. I mean it's cool, but frankly nobody really cares about them. It's something to talk about, but who really cares who we play tennis against.

I'm all for playing super regionally (3-4 hours drive) in non-revenue sports (Arkansas, Wichita State, Oral Roberts, OU, Tulsa, KU, KSU, SMU, TCU, UTArlington, North Texas, etc. )

Also there would be no non revenue sports without football, baseball and mens basketball (and for Title 9 sake, I suppose you should include softball, womens basketball)

We wrestle against Wyoming, Northern Iowa and North Dakota St in Wrestling; We're even bringing in Mizzou
We compete against Univ of Denver in Women's Gymnastics
We compete against Fresno State in Equestrian