Oklahoma State University hosts "Drag Queen Story Hour" for 2-year-olds

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Donnyboy

Lettin' the high times carry the low....
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Oct 31, 2005
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#61
Personally, when I see a flamboyant man in a dress reading a children's book I don't feel anything sexual at all but to each his own. I doubt little children would either.

But, if we are going to chose what other people's kids are exposed to, we need to make a list and not just stop at what some find as sexual. Violence, religion, politics for sure. Any other adult themes that we should all agree that other people's kids should not be allowed to see?
What about the one where the people live naked in a garden till meet a talking snake….
Or the one where the guy offers his daughters to the mob to have their way with in orgy town then his wife turns to salt….
Or the one where the people fight over who is chosen because a really old guy knocked up his wife and servant…..
Or the one where the kid kills a giant and becomes king but he peeping Toms his captains wife and she was so thicc he sent the dude to his death so he could smash…

Sex and violence type stuff
 
May 4, 2011
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#62
What about the one where the people live naked in a garden till meet a talking snake….
Or the one where the guy offers his daughters to the mob to have their way with in orgy town then his wife turns to salt….
Or the one where the people fight over who is chosen because a really old guy knocked up his wife and servant…..
Or the one where the kid kills a giant and becomes king but he peeping Toms his captains wife and she was so thicc he sent the dude to his death so he could smash…

Sex and violence type stuff
If you're going that route, you did miss a kind of big one where the deity impregnated a virgin without consent and pressured her fiance to go through with the marriage anyway.

I should probably clarify that I'm agnostic and still attend church. I also think it's healthy to be humble about our own beliefs (or lack of beliefs in my case).
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#63
This event was done by person's that normally perform in an adult only activity, in adult only venues. While not all, many of the performances done have a sexual connotation to them.
In the past, some of these story hours contained books promoting this activity to young children.
If OSU promoted this event, or any books like that were involved, then I don't think it was appropriate to have on campus, or done in public libraries either.

Promoting adult only activities like this, to children, should not be allowed by civil society.

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So I understand your point, adults who do things that only adults should do should not be seen doing something like reading to children as that would be promoting the adult activities to the kid?

So, if an MMA fighter wanted to read to kids you would have just as strong of a reaction? Or is violence OK to promote (without being violent) but sexuality isn’t (without being sexual).
Would they be reading a book specifically promoting the violence they take part in?

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Rack

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#64
What about the one where the people live naked in a garden till meet a talking snake….
Or the one where the guy offers his daughters to the mob to have their way with in orgy town then his wife turns to salt….
Or the one where the people fight over who is chosen because a really old guy knocked up his wife and servant…..
Or the one where the kid kills a giant and becomes king but he peeping Toms his captains wife and she was so thicc he sent the dude to his death so he could smash…

Sex and violence type stuff
All those stories would have been kept out of a book if the author wanted to write fiction and set people up as saints only, but they wanted to portray people as fallen, which they are, and portray a "God" as forgiving, as I believe the Christian God is. The stories you mentioned give hope to the hopeless and a way of redemption for even the worst of crimes. These stories are most typically not told to children, or at least not in a direct way as you mention above.
 

Rack

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#67
If you're going that route, you did miss a kind of big one where the deity impregnated a virgin without consent and pressured her fiance to go through with the marriage anyway.

I should probably clarify that I'm agnostic and still attend church. I also think it's healthy to be humble about our own beliefs (or lack of beliefs in my case).
I love that you are attending church, my hope is that you can see the difference between those going through the motions, those acting in the law, and those living grace filled lives. No doubt religion is humanities way to attempt to figure out our two distinct natures and the war we fight within ourselves with moral choices. I suggest you search out virgin consent and read the multitude of selections on it when dealing with that issue of the virgin conception. Personally I think it's beautiful that, in my view, God perhaps chose a very messed up situation to bring redemption to the Earth. One that points to the fact that our most significant flaws don't keep us from forgiveness. In his line were sinner after sinner, women, a prostitute, and other people like the aforementioned David, all flawed and broken.

I also respect the honesty with your agnosticism, as it is truly impossible, in my view, to be 100% sure of much of any faith. That's what "faith" is, trusting in something unseen and unknown and maybe even unknowable. That being said, I trust in this faith and it's Christ due to personal, emotional, and yes, for me, even logical reasons. I love the story of Jesus...I just don't care for many of those who profess him wrongly and twist the faith into something it stood squarely against. So, good on you for questioning.
 

andylicious

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#68
What about the one where the people live naked in a garden till meet a talking snake….
Or the one where the guy offers his daughters to the mob to have their way with in orgy town then his wife turns to salt….
Or the one where the people fight over who is chosen because a really old guy knocked up his wife and servant…..
Or the one where the kid kills a giant and becomes king but he peeping Toms his captains wife and she was so thicc he sent the dude to his death so he could smash…

Sex and violence type stuff
You must be descended from one of Noah's daughters
 

PF5

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Jan 3, 2014
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#69
growing up, I was a fan of Boy George, Elton John, Queen, Wham, Twisted Sister, David Bowie, KISS, Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, etc (you get the idea)...amazingly, I stayed heterosexual, have never wanted to wear makeup, have never bitten the head off of a bat, etc (you get the idea)...
While my kids were growing up, I dressed them in my favorite pro sports teams clothing, and NONE of them became fans of my teams...we raised all our kids the same way, in the same church, schools, teachings, and one of them is married to a person of the same sex (gasp) AND my grandkid is being raised in this home (what will become of this poor kid?!)...lastly, our kids all grew up to be graduates of OSU...aha, I did it, I brainwashed/groomed them and it worked!!
 
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steross

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#74
Would they be reading a book specifically promoting the violence they take part in?

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Are you saying that the drag queens read books promoting sex to kids or are you saying that even mentioning that drag queens exist is like talking about violence?
 

bleedinorange

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#75
If you're going that route, you did miss a kind of big one where the deity impregnated a virgin without consent and pressured her fiance to go through with the marriage anyway.

I should probably clarify that I'm agnostic and still attend church. I also think it's healthy to be humble about our own beliefs (or lack of beliefs in my case).
Hmmmm. And yet (by your moniker) you believe in a "science" which has few or no empirical elements or constants? (imho) You're a person of faith and don't know it. You've simply chosen a different narrative to support. Faith being believing in the unbelievable/unprovable and psychology exists largely in that realm. The definable observed "cure rate" of both the subjects in question tells the story. Interesting.
 
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wrenhal

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#76
Would they be reading a book specifically promoting the violence they take part in?

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk
Are you saying that the drag queens read books promoting sex to kids or are you saying that even mentioning that drag queens exist is like talking about violence?
I'm saying that these story hours usually include books specifically talking about sexual identity, drag queens and such. Adult subjects and situations, in which the adult reading the story, partakes.

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#77
Hmmmm. And yet (by your moniker) you believe in a "science" which has few or no empirical elements or constants? (imho) You're a person of faith and don't know it. You've simply chosen a different narrative to support. Faith being believing in the unbelievable/unprovable and psychology exists largely in that realm. The definable observed "cure rate" of both the subjects in question tells the story. Interesting.
I touched a nerve I see. Also, I'm agnostic not atheist. Sure, psychological science has lots of flaws and my agnosticism actually stems from the same place where I approach evidence in my field, including my own research, with caution and skepticism. Nothing is ever fully proven, but you go with what the best evidence indicates. If we're being honest, I dislike arguments that boil down to "well, you can't prove anything so I'm going to believe whatever I want." That does sometimes happen in scientific fields, but I take the stance that empirical evidence means something.
 

Rack

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#78
I touched a nerve I see. Also, I'm agnostic not atheist. Sure, psychological science has lots of flaws and my agnosticism actually stems from the same place where I approach evidence in my field, including my own research, with caution and skepticism. Nothing is ever fully proven, but you go with what the best evidence indicates. If we're being honest, I dislike arguments that boil down to "well, you can't prove anything so I'm going to believe whatever I want." That does sometimes happen in scientific fields, but I take the stance that empirical evidence means something.
I admire the agnostics ability to ask questions about God and have no problem with that. Their thought that they can look and discover truth. Their typical desire to treat people fairly and their desire to be good people. I don't think we 'Christians' should argue with them on their journey of life discovery, but I have done that a number of times and hurt my own ability to convince them of God's existence and perhaps made things worse and even more biased in their journey of discovery about God.

You know the drill I'm sure...we believe that nature in it's complexity couldn't have happened by itself and took some outside force to start. We don't all 100% agree on that creation story and it's literalness in the Bible rather some of us see it as a figurative story to explain a complex subject to a primitive people. We cannot "save" anyone, that can only be done internally in our minds/souls by a, hard to understand, outside force that enters our conscious state when we ONLY partially understand even when we are "called" by it...sometimes that's emotionally, sometimes it's in fear of ourselves and the problems involved with our own actions, and sometimes it's logical and involves knowing we aren't in control. It's a prosomal surrender of control and yet it's still a struggle even after it's obtained....I will say the comfort it provides for true believers is something hard to understand, I'm not 100% there as I struggle mightily with anxiety, but have seen it in a few. Btw, many of us still struggle with belief even as we also seek truth...it does take faith and experience combined with logic.

I'm not sure that helps understand us better at all, especially when so many of us, myself included, try to convince you in wrong and sometimes even hateful ways. Once again, I truly love searchers because it's honest and it's pure.
 
May 4, 2011
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#79
I admire the agnostics ability to ask questions about God and have no problem with that. Their thought that they can look and discover truth. Their typical desire to treat people fairly and their desire to be good people. I don't think we 'Christians' should argue with them on their journey of life discovery, but I have done that a number of times and hurt my own ability to convince them of God's existence and perhaps made things worse and even more biased in their journey of discovery about God.

You know the drill I'm sure...we believe that nature in it's complexity couldn't have happened by itself and took some outside force to start. We don't all 100% agree on that creation story and it's literalness in the Bible rather some of us see it as a figurative story to explain a complex subject to a primitive people. We cannot "save" anyone, that can only be done internally in our minds/souls by a, hard to understand, outside force that enters our conscious state when we ONLY partially understand even when we are "called" by it...sometimes that's emotionally, sometimes it's in fear of ourselves and the problems involved with our own actions, and sometimes it's logical and involves knowing we aren't in control. It's a prosomal surrender of control and yet it's still a struggle even after it's obtained....I will say the comfort it provides for true believers is something hard to understand, I'm not 100% there as I struggle mightily with anxiety, but have seen it in a few. Btw, many of us still struggle with belief even as we also seek truth...it does take faith and experience combined with logic.

I'm not sure that helps understand us better at all, especially when so many of us, myself included, try to convince you in wrong and sometimes even hateful ways. Once again, I truly love searchers because it's honest and it's pure.
I grew up in these same Christian environments and once argued a lot like you do. I don't have harsh judgment for those who see their faith with more certainty. I just see things as far more gray and unclear. The concept of an infinite being that can be comprehended by humans is also tough for me to digest. I mostly see people anthropomorphizing an entity that according to their own faith is limitless. Still I fully understand that framing and those symbols are comforting and give people purpose. As long as their purpose mostly points them toward helping their fellow humans and kindness, I'm good with it.
 

bleedinorange

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#80
I touched a nerve I see. Also, I'm agnostic not atheist. Sure, psychological science has lots of flaws and my agnosticism actually stems from the same place where I approach evidence in my field, including my own research, with caution and skepticism. Nothing is ever fully proven, but you go with what the best evidence indicates. If we're being honest, I dislike arguments that boil down to "well, you can't prove anything so I'm going to believe whatever I want." That does sometimes happen in scientific fields, but I take the stance that empirical evidence means something.
Thank you for the relatable response. No nerve touched at all here, I just found your position interesting. I have my own issues with the oxymoron "organized religion" while being a believer. My undergrad and graduate degrees are in biological science with an emphasis on anatomy and physiology. My minor (yes I'm that old) is in Psychology. I have found much value in both while recognizing the obvious contradictions. I totally agree that the "can't prove anything" argument is useless and imo, little more than an excuse to remain ignorant.