Oklahoma legislative branch passes countries first near total abortion ban with jail consequences

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May 4, 2011
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#5
How would Oklahoma charge you for a crime you committed in another state? Are they claiming jurisdiction over abortions outside of Oklahoma?

It's a blatant attempt to get Roe V Wade reviewed by SCOTUS.
Not sure about this bill, but other states have included provisions that make travel for an abortion illegal.
 

CocoCincinnati

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#6
As far as I know a state cannot charge one of their own residents with a crime that is committed in another state (someone correct me if that's wrong).

Roe v Wade is about states rights....and obviously this bill is intended to appear before SCOTUS to challenge that ruling. But asserting jurisdiction in another state goes firmly against the idea of states rights. I don't want to wake up one day and be arrested in New York because I own a semi auto rifle with scary looking attachments back in Oklahoma.

I am pro life but not sure this is the best thing at this time.
 

StillwaterTownie

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Jun 18, 2010
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#8
It's disgustingly political. A Republican state legislator said they have to do it to get votes. But Republican state legislators have misread the public before on controversial Christian Right issues, like when voters rejected their request to change the state constitution, so their Ten Commandments monument could be restored to the state capitol grounds.

I believe the majority of Oklahomans want abortion to be regulated not totally banned or nearly so. I wonder if state Baptist and Catholic heads endorse 612. I know they wouldn't endorse former state senator Silk's bill that would have literally banned ALL abortion. No regulations, whatsoever. With no regulations, a ban means abortions out of control. The more people who disagree with it, the worse out of control it gets. One would have to hope self-directed abortion using abortion inducing drugs is safe. Maybe those drugs will be banned next. It wouldn't make things any safer.

If Roe vs Wade is overturned, then Oklahoma will simply have to wind up voting to put right to abortion in the state constitution. Hopefully, it won't take too many horror stories. Or get enough signatures for a vote to nix abortion bans. I'm pro regulated abortion but also pro-life up to a point. I wouldn't mind regulated abortion laws that allow abortions on demand up to the 12th week, no less. After that permitted only to save the life of the mother or due to fatal abnormality of the fetus.
 

steross

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Mar 31, 2004
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#9
As far as I know a state cannot charge one of their own residents with a crime that is committed in another state (someone correct me if that's wrong).

Roe v Wade is about states rights....and obviously this bill is intended to appear before SCOTUS to challenge that ruling. But asserting jurisdiction in another state goes firmly against the idea of states rights. I don't want to wake up one day and be arrested in New York because I own a semi auto rifle with scary looking attachments back in Oklahoma.

I am pro life but not sure this is the best thing at this time.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/po...w-to-make-illegal-to-aid-or-abet-out-of-state
 

steross

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#10
Texas woman charged with murder for ‘self-induced abortion’
Texas Public Radio | By Pablo De La Rosa, Dan Katz
Published April 8, 2022 at 10:31 PM
EVELYN HOCKSTEIN/REUTERS
Police in Starr County on the Texas-Mexico border have arrested and charged a woman with murder for allegedly performing what they called a “self-induced abortion.”

The Starr County Sheriff's Office arrested 26-year-old Lizelle Herrera on Thursday.

The story was first reported by Valley Central. TPR confirmed Friday night that Herrera remains in the custody of the Starr County Sheriff’s Office with bond set at $500,000.

La Frontera Fund, a Rio Grande Valley-based abortion assistance fund, planned a protest for Saturday morning outside the Starr County Jail.

“This arrest is inhumane. We are demanding the immediate release of Lizelle Herrera.’ said Rockie Gonzalez, founder and board chair of Frontera Fund.

https://www.tpr.org/news/2022-04-08...th-murder-for-self-induced-abortion?_amp=true
 

CowboyJD

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Dec 10, 2004
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#11
As far as I know a state cannot charge one of their own residents with a crime that is committed in another state (someone correct me if that's wrong).

Roe v Wade is about states rights....and obviously this bill is intended to appear before SCOTUS to challenge that ruling. But asserting jurisdiction in another state goes firmly against the idea of states rights. I don't want to wake up one day and be arrested in New York because I own a semi auto rifle with scary looking attachments back in Oklahoma.

I am pro life but not sure this is the best thing at this time.
The theory is that the traveling in State A with the intent to get an abortion in State B is the crime, not the actual getting of the abortion in State B. The actual abortion in State B may be evidence of intent, but the abortion in State B isn’t the crime. Traveling in State A with the specific intent to get an abortion occurs in State A.

A Mann Act Type crime before you actually cross state lines.
 

StillwaterTownie

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#12
Unless Democrats have shot themselves in the foot even worse by stirring up controversial issues of their own, such as child trans rights, defund the police and CRT for starters, Republicans may lose significantly over abortion in November.

Interestingly, Oklahoma Republicans want to try to make it harder to get enough signatures for petitions to vote on issues. Requirements are already plenty difficult to meet, especially if no money is available to pay signature takers. If legislators come up with something, it will be put up for a vote of the people to approve or not. This would be a great way to try to head off votes for a minimum wage increase, to counter their anti-abortion bills or whatever rural Oklahomans don't want imposed upon them from urban voters.
 
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StillwaterTownie

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#13
Texas woman charged with murder for ‘self-induced abortion’
Texas Public Radio | By Pablo De La Rosa, Dan Katz
Published April 8, 2022 at 10:31 PM
EVELYN HOCKSTEIN/REUTERS
Police in Starr County on the Texas-Mexico border have arrested and charged a woman with murder for allegedly performing what they called a “self-induced abortion.”

The Starr County Sheriff's Office arrested 26-year-old Lizelle Herrera on Thursday.

The story was first reported by Valley Central. TPR confirmed Friday night that Herrera remains in the custody of the Starr County Sheriff’s Office with bond set at $500,000.

La Frontera Fund, a Rio Grande Valley-based abortion assistance fund, planned a protest for Saturday morning outside the Starr County Jail.

“This arrest is inhumane. We are demanding the immediate release of Lizelle Herrera.’ said Rockie Gonzalez, founder and board chair of Frontera Fund.

https://www.tpr.org/news/2022-04-08...th-murder-for-self-induced-abortion?_amp=true
She was freed from jail. It was determined that there is no statute in Texas that authorizes the arrest of a woman for a self-managed abortion. I don't expect women to appreciate legislators driving them to resort to self-managed abortions and then be unjustly arrested by LE who don't know the law.

Murder charge over self-induced abortion dismissed in Texas - ABC News (go.com)

Some anti-abortion law supporters in Oklahoma are unhappy that anti-abortion bills currently making progress don't include a ban on self-induced abortion or helping women get abortions.
 
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