Official Game Thread: Tulsa vs. Oklahoma State

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Jun 13, 2010
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It's consistently been this way after Monken left. If we play a good team that can defend our outside receiver, we literally have nothing else. Sure, we can win hard-fought battles against Tulsa, run up the score on Kansas, etc...but we'll NEVER have a chance against any legit opponents with this garbage scheme. Frankly, I'm amazed that our fans are ok with how bad it is.
I don't think that the fans are ok with how bad it has gotten. I think after the Chuba ordeal and overall disappointing season last year, overall majority opinion has shifted to replacing Gundy. I think Gundy was on borrowed time via promises made that things would change. Things didn't change and we were lied to. Gundy's forever contract forces only two inevitable outcomes, 1) he gets fired/dismissed, or 2) he leaves or retires and leaves us unprepared in a lurch.

The vocal Gundy Lovers who harass and maim anyone who dares question Gundy are unique to this board, which understandably, is trying to keep a lid on fomenting discontent. We're going to see posts deleted and threads locked on a weekly basis until one of the above eventualities finally happen.

OP however is not real life. In real life, Gundy is on borrowed time already with an ever-growing majority of the fanbase and more importantly the alums. Most of the folks on this board do not donate to the school. For the actual donor community, throwing good money after bad is becoming an issue. Based on extremely cordial discussions I've had with the University, they understand this.

T. Boone is also rolling in his grave right now. RIP to the greatest Cowboy, and hopefully we can fix this mess before it's too late and we're stuck in mediocrity.

USC just fired Clay Helton for losing to a decent Stanford team. Embarrassing move for them in all honesty, and they'll probably still win 8-9 games with their own decent team. We are not in that situation. We are also not Nebraska firing Pellini or Solich. We are our own school repeating the inglorious 1990s Pat Jones Era.

OK State 1990s... meet OK State 2020s... if we don't do something now to fix our trajectory. Doesn't have to be a national championship in the first two years, but the trajectory is not good. We are going to find out how low this can go if we don't fix it, because Gundy isn't capable.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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Gundy isn't going anywhere. OSU would never recover from the buyout. I hope some how some way he gets it turned around. I don't know though, from what I've seen this year, I think it may be a rough year, but the "Gundy" guys keep assuring we are going to be ok and accuse me of being a horrible fan for sounding the alarm. I may be dumb as a post but I know what bad football looks like. Not much any of us can do but to just see what happens.
 
Jun 13, 2010
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OSU could recover from a buyout, football is lucrative and coaches are expensive. OSU cannot recover from keeping Gundy around. Our athletic revenue has been decreasing year after year... we're gradually becoming poorer, less competitive, and the vicious cycle repeats each year Gundy is retained on his forever contract.

At a certain point we have to say enough is enough, this University does not exist for the sake of Gundy... we've given him everything and he's done his best, but we need to go in a different (more upward) direction.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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We just came through the "pandemic year" signifiant revenue was lost, almost every coach had to take a pay cut. We can't go paying off a coach 20M+ on the heels of that. Also we are fixing to be playing in the "farm team" league, coaches are going to be passing though the Big 12 faster than you can blink, may be a good thing to have some stability. I'm as frustrated as everyone else, I just want Gundy to get it turned around FAST, ultimately he is our best bet. I just want to see some good football
 
Jun 13, 2010
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We just came through the "pandemic year" signifiant revenue was lost, almost every coach had to take a pay cut. We can't go paying off a coach 20M+ on the heels of that. Also we are fixing to be playing in the "farm team" league, coaches are going to be passing though the Big 12 faster than you can blink, may be a good thing to have some stability. I'm as frustrated as everyone else, I just want Gundy to get it turned around FAST, ultimately he is our best bet. I just want to see some good football
This is still the only good argument for retaining Gundy... maybe he can turn the shipwreck around in an even-lesser conference than the current Big 12. I appreciate your post and your point. The only thing you're wrong about is that the decreasing AD revenue has been a trend since Mason graduated...

Ultimately I agree that we have to be delicate about how and with whom we replace Gundy... Texas Tech and others schools do provide an excellent road map for what NOT to do. I really do want to be wrong about Gundy but I know that unless EXTREME pressure is put on him, he won't change anything. Ie Boone forcing him to hire Dana, and then Monken, which bought us an excellent (albeit incomplete) run. It's clear that Gundy wants to be Pat Jones... we just can't allow that.

F^%$ Pat Jones amirite? Y'all Gundy Lovers are like the 2020s equivalent of someone saying we can't fire PJ bc he is "responsible" for Barry... (the flipside, and correct, argument being that NOT winning a NC let alone conf champ with Barry or even Thurman was a crime in and of itself)
 
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Dec 2, 2008
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OSU could recover from a buyout, football is lucrative and coaches are expensive. OSU cannot recover from keeping Gundy around. Our athletic revenue has been decreasing year after year... we're gradually becoming poorer, less competitive, and the vicious cycle repeats each year Gundy is retained on his forever contract.

At a certain point we have to say enough is enough, this University does not exist for the sake of Gundy... we've given him everything and he's done his best, but we need to go in a different (more upward) direction.
Bring in Mike Leach!


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Apr 27, 2006
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This is still the only good argument for retaining Gundy... maybe he can turn the shipwreck around in an even-lesser conference than the current Big 12. I appreciate your post and your point. The only thing you're wrong about is that the decreasing AD revenue has been a trend since Mason graduated...

Ultimately I agree that we have to be delicate about how and with whom we replace Gundy... Texas Tech and others schools do provide an excellent road map for what NOT to do. I really do want to be wrong about Gundy but I know that unless EXTREME pressure is put on him, he won't change anything. Ie Boone forcing him to hire Dana, and then Monken, which bought us an excellent (albeit incomplete) run. It's clear that Gundy wants to be Pat Jones... we just can't allow that.

F^%$ Pat Jones amirite? Y'all Gundy Lovers are like the 2020s equivalent of someone saying we can't fire PJ bc he is "responsible" for Barry... (the flipside, and correct, argument being that NOT winning a NC let alone conf champ with Barry or even Thurman was a crime in and of itself)
As an organization we have a history of keeping coaches until most of the gains realized are lost thus always starting over from near or at the bottom.
 
Feb 12, 2010
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This is a quote from Gundy in TODAY’s press conference.

“How we try to attack it in recruiting? We would probably get a feel for how young men in Central Florida or in Ohio would feel about coming to school here and get a barometer and a feel for it because I don’t want to fly all the way across the country if I can get the same product within a four-hour drive. And there’s a lot of players within a four-hour drive of us now. So we would have to feel the water, get a good idea of what the interest level is before we make that decision. A little easier to Houston because you get a direct flight right? And a little easier to Salt Lake City because you get a direct flight. The other ones are a little bit more of a risk but we’ll see.“

Maybe I’m reading to much into it but the way I read this is that he still has no desire to recruit harder. Our overall talent level has been decreasing the last 5-6 years and with this attitude it’s not going to get better. I’ve been ready to move on from Gundy since his last extortion round with Tennessee.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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This is a quote from Gundy in TODAY’s press conference.

“How we try to attack it in recruiting? We would probably get a feel for how young men in Central Florida or in Ohio would feel about coming to school here and get a barometer and a feel for it because I don’t want to fly all the way across the country if I can get the same product within a four-hour drive. And there’s a lot of players within a four-hour drive of us now. So we would have to feel the water, get a good idea of what the interest level is before we make that decision. A little easier to Houston because you get a direct flight right? And a little easier to Salt Lake City because you get a direct flight. The other ones are a little bit more of a risk but we’ll see.“

Maybe I’m reading to much into it but the way I read this is that he still has no desire to recruit harder. Our overall talent level has been decreasing the last 5-6 years and with this attitude it’s not going to get better. I’ve been ready to move on from Gundy since his last extortion round with Tennessee.
The 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes are both looking really strong so the latest data points there don’t agree with you.


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Sep 12, 2021
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Let me first say that as poorly that we have played on offense I am delighted that we are 2-0. We could just as easily be 0-2. There were a couple of mistakes from the TU game that I have not heard anyone bring up.

1.) Poor game management as 2x we tried to sub on defense and were penalized for illegal participation. The second time it happened with TU inside the 5 yard line and it cost us a TD. Why would you not call a timeout to at least give your defense another chance at a goal line stand? In my mind a coach or player should have been calling for a TO before TU snapped the ball.

2.) Bad penalties - with the above combined with for the second week in a row we committed a personal foul by a veteran player with the game on the line that contributed to another opposing team TD. Where is the discipline, especially when this should have been hammered on from the week before?

Would love to hear your thoughts as maybe I missed something in watching these plays unfold. Thanks!
 
Feb 12, 2010
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Tulsa, OK
The 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes are both looking really strong so the latest data points there don’t agree with you.


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The 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes are both looking really strong so the latest data points there don’t agree with you.


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I have no idea what really strong looks like to you but I think the past two years illustrate my point perfectly.
247 rankings: 2020 - 40th, 2021- 30th (best we’ve had in a long time)
ESPN rankings: 2020- 44th, 2021- 36th
Rivals: 2020- 43rd, 2021-34th

Do you really not feel like we could be recruiting better than getting classes in the 30-45 range?
I personally feel we should be consistently in the 20-30 range.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
The 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes are both looking really strong so the latest data points there don’t agree with you.


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The 2020 and 2021 recruiting classes are both looking really strong so the latest data points there don’t agree with you.


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I have no idea what really strong looks like to you but I think the past two years illustrate my point perfectly.
247 rankings: 2020 - 40th, 2021- 30th (best we’ve had in a long time)
ESPN rankings: 2020- 44th, 2021- 36th
Rivals: 2020- 43rd, 2021-34th

Do you really not feel like we could be recruiting better than getting classes in the 30-45 range?
I personally feel we should be consistently in the 20-30 range.
Sorry I should have said 2021 and 2022 (the current cycle), got mixed up cuz recruiting years are one year ahead.

I mean 247 and every other site plays up recruit rankings for business reasons and the best way to play them up are to put teams in a list. When we signed the both of the Green twins, Ty Williams, and Collin Oliver all were 4 stars. I don’t think 247 is biased against OSU that’s a bit conspiratorial but it’s well known that all the uncommitted kids late in a cycle see their ratings jump and the boring commits are often the downside from that. The way I see it, we brought in 6 blue chippers, they were 6 of the biggest targets the staff identified early, and as someone that follows recruiting pretty closely, that’s pretty good, and a lot better than 2 blue chippers (the 2nd one being Eli Russ even tho the aggregate ranking is lower on him).

Honestly, my opinion is that we’re already seeing the results of the poor recruiting and the poor luck in regard to our top prospects of 18,19,20. Yet, this is the best defensive stability we’ve seen in Gundy’s era. We’re still getting the QB recruits we want as we essentially handpicked Sanders, Shane, and Rangel. Gundy’s response to the poor skill position recruiting has been pretty clearly to empower the youth and i think that’s going to work out well for him based on what we’ve seen so far, plus Shretton is coming and we’re still in on Thompson.

We’ve got 2 clear problems. Playcalling, schematics, and QB development. You can’t blame the recruiting when you sign guys as highly desired as Sanders and Shane. It’s a coaching issue. The OL recruiting. Every good recruit is a Henson recruit and we have not seen the miracles in development we were led to believe with Dicky.

Gundy’s stability and ability to beat everyone but OU when OU is leaving means he should absolutely have the inside track to be at OSU for the foreseeable future. But I do want to see those signs that the program is staying hungry. We should be looking longingly at familiar but expensive names like Josh Henson and Graham Harrell for our OC spot.


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Nov 8, 2007
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If anyone doesn’t think this is largely a playcalling issue I will refer you to the following:

https://twitter.com/oktxarpoke/status/1437525896819265545?s=10



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Came to post this as well...that is truly pathetic.

Who knows though...maybe the coaches are playing the long game. Give all of our "big time" opponents lots of film of us running every second and long and then when they least expect it...BAM! Throw a bomb downfield....oh wait, it was intercepted.
 
Feb 12, 2010
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Tulsa, OK
Sorry I should have said 2021 and 2022 (the current cycle), got mixed up cuz recruiting years are one year ahead.

I mean 247 and every other site plays up recruit rankings for business reasons and the best way to play them up are to put teams in a list. When we signed the both of the Green twins, Ty Williams, and Collin Oliver all were 4 stars. I don’t think 247 is biased against OSU that’s a bit conspiratorial but it’s well known that all the uncommitted kids late in a cycle see their ratings jump and the boring commits are often the downside from that. The way I see it, we brought in 6 blue chippers, they were 6 of the biggest targets the staff identified early, and as someone that follows recruiting pretty closely, that’s pretty good, and a lot better than 2 blue chippers (the 2nd one being Eli Russ even tho the aggregate ranking is lower on him).

Honestly, my opinion is that we’re already seeing the results of the poor recruiting and the poor luck in regard to our top prospects of 18,19,20. Yet, this is the best defensive stability we’ve seen in Gundy’s era. We’re still getting the QB recruits we want as we essentially handpicked Sanders, Shane, and Rangel. Gundy’s response to the poor skill position recruiting has been pretty clearly to empower the youth and i think that’s going to work out well for him based on what we’ve seen so far, plus Shretton is coming and we’re still in on Thompson.

We’ve got 2 clear problems. Playcalling, schematics, and QB development. You can’t blame the recruiting when you sign guys as highly desired as Sanders and Shane. It’s a coaching issue. The OL recruiting. Every good recruit is a Henson recruit and we have not seen the miracles in development we were led to believe with Dicky.

Gundy’s stability and ability to beat everyone but OU when OU is leaving means he should absolutely have the inside track to be at OSU for the foreseeable future. But I do want to see those signs that the program is staying hungry. We should be looking longingly at familiar but expensive names like Josh Henson and Graham Harrell for our OC spot.


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I can certainly agree with that. Last year's class had more top-end guys than we have had in way way to long. That's what's frustrating though, Gundy's stubbornness/complacency caused almost all the issues we see now.

We have always gotten some skill players here and there but the O-line hasn't been fixed in 6-7years and he squandered all the momentum we had from the new facilities and run we had from 2010-2013. Those two things combined should have been able to give us a boost in recruiting but Gundy didn't like the risk associated with higher-end recruits.

He also didn't want to work/recruit as hard as other schools and wanted a work-life balance for his coaches (he has said as much). I agree with work-life balance 100% BUT they chose this profession and are making millions to do the job. They don't get to make the same pay as others and take it easy while other coaches are out there busting their butts to recruit.

I also agree with the playcalling being a very big issue. I would not consider Gundy an offensive mind at all at this point (I'm sure he would tell you differently). He needs to get someone in here and let them run the offense with ZERO input from him. Gundy needs to be CEO only at this point.

I think we can all agree that Gundy is the best option for us long-term as coach if he will get some fire in him to compete again and hire an aggressive offensive coordinator that has a killer instinct that Gundy has lost.