Official Game Thread: Texas vs. Oklahoma State

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Jan 14, 2007
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What really irks me is when Gundy wants to act like he's a hard-ass, like Bear Bryant and benches a RB for fumbling. But QBs can play like ass and turn the ball over multiple times and Gundy acts like he's powerless to make a change.

These players are men, they should be able to handle it when they have to sit because they've made mistakes. I don't know how else you teach someone. You don't have to scream and spit and throw things to get your point across but when you have to sit and think about why you aren't playing? That should spark some introspection IMO.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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I personally blame Gundy for the “3 yards and a cloud of dust” offensive mentality that kicks in when we have a lead in the 3rd quarter. I blame Gundy for moving away from the more aggressive spread we had under holgy and monken to what ever the hell it is that we run now. I blame gundy for questionable choices on picking starting quarter backs...

that’s enough for now...
I died laughing out loud when I read this....I needed this and I do agree with your statement well done.
 

Herecomesbullets

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Nov 14, 2010
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We played aggressively in the first half and scored 24 points, but we gave up 13 points off of turnovers. We played conservatively in the second half, but we gave up a kickoff return for a touchdown.

The truth is that neither performance is acceptable if you want to be an elite team. We have to be play aggressively without the turnovers. Spencer Sanders stares down receivers and he’s too loose with the ball. He’s going to have to clean his game up, or he’s going to get replaced.
Well....
Like I said qbs get too much blame when the team loses and too much praise when they win.

But...again....
When you throw a timing route, look off the safety, but then the receiver stumbles out of his cut thats not the qbs fault

Or ...
When a RB is checked out and doesnt know to take a handoff thats not the qbs fault

Or ...
When a qb gets blind sided while throwing because we didnt run a play to get into field position the play before its not his fault.

To Further, the point our qbs have been turning the ball over like this since Monken left

This stuff isnt new

Sanders is just the current qb that OSU fans complain about turning the ball over.

llingsworth, against comparable competion, has a worse int to attempt ratio than Sanders with much less of the upside to it in terms of yards
This is a systemic issue

But, bottom line is, if we just duplicate the first half in the second half, 3 turnovers and all, we win the game.

Sanders didnt turn the ball over 1 time in the 2nd half or OT and we got out scored.

So, staying aggressive, and making plays to overcome the mistakes, is a better way of approaching it then trying to get conservative and eliminate mistakes.

You don't get both with Gundy because his offense is set up to be explosive not efficient.

Far hash sideline timing routes, fade routes, multiple D balls etc...are explosive plays which is what our offense is based off of but they are not necessarily efficient because they have a high level of difficulty and basically no margin for error.

And....when you run plays that have that little of margin for error you're going to have mistakes.

But.. the flip side to that is that you're going to have explosive plays to counter that.

If you eliminate the explosive plays in an attempt to not make mistakes your cutting the nose off of this type of offense.

This is why I dislike our offensive scheme as much as I do because its very difficult for us to be efficient and safe while alsonl being explosive and effective
 
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Oct 30, 2007
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To Further, the point our qbs have been turning the ball over like this since Monken left

This stuff isnt new

Sanders is just the current qb that OSU fans complain about turning the ball over.
Average number of pass attempts per interception:
Mason Rudolph - 56
Shane Illingworth - 49
JW Walsh - 47
Taylor Cornelius - 39
Spencer Sanders - 23

I didn’t look up fumble stats, but Sanders has been a lot looser with the ball than those players as well. I don’t put the entire loss on him yesterday. Special teams played a big role as well. But our ceiling isn’t going to be that high until we get consistent quarterback play without the turnovers.
 

Herecomesbullets

Territorial Marshal
Nov 14, 2010
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Average number of pass attempts per interception:
Mason Rudolph - 56
Shane Illingworth - 49
JW Walsh - 47
Taylor Cornelius - 39
Spencer Sanders - 23

I didn’t look up fumble stats, but Sanders has been a lot looser with the ball than those players as well. I don’t put the entire loss on him yesterday. Special teams played a big role as well. But our ceiling isn’t going to be that high until we get consistent quarterback play without the turnovers.
You have to compare apples to apples

If you give Spencer Sanders 3 non-conference opponents and two of those opponents are absolutely terrible then his numbers will balance out.

He didnt even get Kansas to pad stats

That's why I compared him an illingsworth in the way that I did.

That would give him almost a hundred more attempts just this year against Bad competition in situations that weren't high Leverage

You're also comparing him to guys that were in the program for 4 or 5 years
 

Herecomesbullets

Territorial Marshal
Nov 14, 2010
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For instance.....
In 2015, in the non conference and Kansas Rudolph had 116 pass attempts and just 2 interceptions.

But against Texas he had 2 interceptions in 34 pass attempts and was sacked 3 times.

Against the 3 non conference opponents Sanders has faced and the 1 time he played against Kansas he has just 1 int in 74 pass attempts.

Again....It has to be apples to apples
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2007
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You have to compare apples to apples

If you give Spencer Sanders 3 non-conference opponents and two of those opponents are absolutely terrible then his numbers will balance out.

He didnt even get Kansas to pad stats

That's why I compared him an illingsworth in the way that I did.

That would give him almost a hundred more attempts just this year against Bad competition in situations that weren't high Leverage

You're also comparing him to guys that were in the program for 4 or 5 years
The only true apples to apples comparison we have between Sanders an Illingworth is the Kansas game this year and the Kansas game last year.

Spencer Sanders against KU:
12-18 for 168 yards, 1 TD, & 0 Int.

Shane Illingworth against KU:
17-23 for 265 yards, 3 TD, & 0 Int.

I’m not arguing that we should write Sanders off. He’s got a lot of talent. All I’m saying is that the turnovers have to stop, or we should consider getting Illingworth on the field.
 

andylicious

Territorial Marshal
Nov 16, 2013
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Well....
Like I said qbs get too much blame when the team loses and too much praise when they win.

But...again....
When you throw a timing route, look off the safety, but then the receiver stumbles out of his cut thats not the qbs fault

Or ...
When a RB is checked out and doesnt know to take a handoff thats not the qbs fault

Or ...
When a qb gets blind sided while throwing because we didnt run a play to get into field position the play before its not his fault.

To Further, the point our qbs have been turning the ball over like this since Monken left

This stuff isnt new

Sanders is just the current qb that OSU fans complain about turning the ball over.

llingsworth, against comparable competion, has a worse int to attempt ratio than Sanders with much less of the upside to it in terms of yards
This is a systemic issue

But, bottom line is, if we just duplicate the first half in the second half, 3 turnovers and all, we win the game.

Sanders didnt turn the ball over 1 time in the 2nd half or OT and we got out scored.

So, staying aggressive, and making plays to overcome the mistakes, is a better way of approaching it then trying to get conservative and eliminate mistakes.

You don't get both with Gundy because his offense is set up to be explosive not efficient.

Far hash sideline timing routes, fade routes, multiple D balls etc...are explosive plays which is what our offense is based off of but they are not necessarily efficient because they have a high level of difficulty and basically no margin for error.

And....when you run plays that have that little of margin for error you're going to have mistakes.

But.. the flip side to that is that you're going to have explosive plays to counter that.

If you eliminate the explosive plays in an attempt to not make mistakes your cutting the nose off of this type of offense.

This is why I dislike our offensive scheme as much as I do because its very difficult for us to be efficient and safe while alsonl being explosive and effective
What was Illingworth's win percentage? That's the only number that matters
 
Sep 12, 2013
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When you throw a timing route, look off the safety, but then the receiver stumbles out of his cut thats not the qbs fault
The interception was totally Sanders fault. You throw the pass to the outside AWAY from coverage, not inside into coverage. The ball was behind the receiver and the defender didn't even have to make a play, simply catch the ball that was thrown right to him.


When a qb gets blind sided while throwing because we didnt run a play to get into field position the play before its not his fault.
Totally Spencer's fault. He has to be able to feel the pressure so he can tuck the ball and run OR throw it away. You can't stand back there holding the ball up just waiting for someone to knock it out of your hand. He wasn't even close to throwing the ball yet.

Dude you need to take off the Spencer colored glasses. He has issues that need to be resolved. You can't fix a problem till you first recognize the problem. He thinks he can sling the ball into the smallest of openings, instead of recognizing that its a really low percentage throw and he needs move on to the next read.

I’m not arguing that we should write Sanders off. He’s got a lot of talent. All I’m saying is that the turnovers have to stop, or we should consider giving Illingworth a shot.
This all day long. I thought Gundy should have sat Sanders at the beginning of the second half. I would have given Illingworth two series and let Sanders think about taking better care of the ball.

LD Brown also needs to play more.

We had 4 turn overs. Sanders also threw one pass that hit two different defenders in the hands. It could have been 5. Maybe six as I heard we almost turned it over when I was out of the room for a bit.
 

wrenhal

Federal Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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So is being out of your return lanes...and the kid goes UNTOUCHED!!! 100 yards untouched shouldn't happened and that's not on gundy....that's mental mistakes on the players that can't happen, but it did!!
Of course its on Gundy

He chose to try to pin them to the sideline with the kick instead of kicking the ball out of the endzone.

If the kick is not returned there is 0 chance of it being returned for a TD.

How many kickoff returns did we have today?
Question how do you know they tried to pin them? could it possibly be that the kicker just didn't get enough power behind it and it go into the end zone? I mean if gundy admitted this I haven't had a chance to watch any of his post-game stuff so you tell me.

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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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No....
You cant take away the bad and expect to also get the good

The 2nd half shows that

We made less mistakes turnover wise in the 2nd half and got outscored

If we played "not to make mistakes" in the first half, the 2nd half is evidence that we would have been ourscored then too.

We had 3 turnovers in the first half and ourscored Texas

We had 1 in the 2nd half and got outscored.

That shows that we lost because we stopped making enough plays in the 2nd half.
We played aggressively in the first half and scored 24 points, but we gave up 13 points off of turnovers. We played conservatively in the second half, but we gave up a kickoff return for a touchdown.

The truth is that neither performance is acceptable if you want to be an elite team. We have to be play aggressively without the turnovers. Spencer Sanders stares down receivers and he’s too loose with the ball. He’s going to have to clean his game up, or he’s going to get replaced.
Main difference is that to play conservative in the 2nd half is to put more pressure on the defense at the time when the defense is going to begin tiring from the effort. The defense pushed hard and kept going and never gave up, but the ultimately allowed enough texas offense to win the game.

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Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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Rack, I agree that SS is not a championship QB. However, you present a false dilemma that SI is. Most likely, neither are, but in your mind the problem is Gundy.
I love Gundy and think he is the best thing that has ever happened to Oklahoma State Football...but he has trouble picking QB's correctly the first time. He's loyal, very loyal, to his players and gives them a chance to right the ship...Maybe Sanders will right that ship...He's a good kid from what I've seen, I just like the arm and style of SI and him being from Riverside where I spent much of my youth around March Airforce base...he's a favorite. Look at this senior stats...I think he had two ints. 40 touchdown passes and 3,081 yards in 11 games. Not a bad year in California football. The kid just has everything you want in a QB IMHO. In three years of varsity HS football he had 6,433 yards, 79 touchdowns and 9 interceptions...I like those odds.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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You have to compare apples to apples

If you give Spencer Sanders 3 non-conference opponents and two of those opponents are absolutely terrible then his numbers will balance out.

He didnt even get Kansas to pad stats

That's why I compared him an illingsworth in the way that I did.

That would give him almost a hundred more attempts just this year against Bad competition in situations that weren't high Leverage

You're also comparing him to guys that were in the program for 4 or 5 years
I'm just going to tell you right now my friend...Illingworth is the future. His size, his stats in high school, and he's poise under pressure has already been shown in a few games and it's only going to get better and better...but he has to play. I don't know what position SS will play in our future, but IMHO it's likely not QB1. We will see, but my opinion is we need to make a change...and that it WILL happen THIS year.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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And the play on the field says completely the opposite. Even the visually impaired could see the OL was totally manhandled today.
because illingworth makes a throw in under 3 seconds. sanders takes way too long to throw. your football knowledge sucks stop commenting
I saw several times yesterday, where Wallace it another receiver was wide open for about 4 seconds, instead of throwing to them, sanders didn't even look and either tucked and ran into a tackle or threw into a miss. By the 4th second the cover man had caught up to Wallace. This included a route into the endzone that would have easily resulted in a touchdown. He stared down receivers and didn't even go into any kind of progression that included Wallace those times.
I believe Shane would have not only looked to Wallace first, if for no other reason than to draw off some coverage on the other side of the field, but if he threw to Wallace he would have made it before the cover man got there.

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andylicious

Territorial Marshal
Nov 16, 2013
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I saw several times yesterday, where Wallace it another receiver was wide open for about 4 seconds, instead of throwing to them, sanders didn't even look and either tucked and ran into a tackle or threw into a miss. By the 4th second the cover man had caught up to Wallace. This included a route into the endzone that would have easily resulted in a touchdown. He stared down receivers and didn't even go into any kind of progression that included Wallace those times.
I believe Shane would have not only looked to Wallace first, if for no other reason than to draw off some coverage on the other side of the field, but if he threw to Wallace he would have made it before the cover man got there.

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We noticed the same thing, we have had the wrong guy back there the last two weeks. We have no chance against the goons with SS, we do with SI because their d-backfield still sucks.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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We noticed the same thing, we have had the wrong guy back there the last two weeks. We have no chance against the goons with SS, we do with SI because their d-backfield still sucks.
It's not all Sanders' fault. He does have a super weak O-line. The problem is that Gundy is too committed to a run-first offense, and he flat-out REFUSES to adjust, even if it's not working. It's the Daxx Garman offense with a more talented QB, and it has no chance to get us to elite levels without an elite O-line.