Official Game Thread: Baylor vs. Oklahoma State

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andylicious

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Don't tell that to every NFL team who's ever drafted a 21 year old QB with 2.25 years of starting experience and 1 year on the bench. They'll be quite irritated to know there was never any room for growth, after all.

On a side note, am I the last one to notice SSanders has almost identical passing stats for 2019 and 2020? It's one of the darndest things I've ever seen, stat related at least. ...exactly 155 for 247 both years. 2065 vs. 2007 total yards, and 145.4 vs. 143.2 rating for 2019 and 2020, respectively. Furthermore, at this season's current yards-per-attempt pace, and in the unlikely scenario that he finishes with exactly 247 passes again, he'll post just over 2000 yards passing, just like the previous two years.
We want balance and consistency, that's consistent
 

Cimarron

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this is what is scary. pretty simple mechanics were horrible. his arm motion is simply bad, very slow release. then, he throws off his back foot. Rattay has to tweak without doing the whole new golf swing thing. picks were all high throws. you cannot adjust the plan for that as it eliminates the middle of the field and then you will not score.

no idea if Shane is better, that is the coaches job. so, if he is not better then that is still on the coaches for bad recruiting.

in the end, SS should be on very short leash. one bad high throw over the middle, pick or not, and he has to be out of the texas game. at that time, you have to give the other guy a chance.


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That's part of the problem. The other guy has had his chances.

2020 and 2021 Sanders has 11 starts, Illingworth has 5 starts.

2020 Oklahoma State.jpg
2021 Oklahoma State.jpg

Illingworth is capable and may have a higher upside than Sanders in regards to passing. I'm not sure we have the depth of receivers we've enjoyed in the past however.

Ball security is a big deal and Sanders seems to struggle with that. Not including fumbles here is an interesting stat for some notable OSU QBs. These stats only include the years they had significant number of starts.

Rudolph for every 10 TD passes he threw 2.6 interceptions, Walsh 3.6, etc.

Rudolph: 2.6
Walsh: 3.6
Weeden: 3.7
Cornelius: 4.1
Chelf: 4.1
Illingworth: 4.4
Sanders 6.6
Garman: 10.0

1633397116398.png
 
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That's part of the problem. The other guy has had his chances.

2020 and 2021 Sanders has 11 starts, Illingworth has 5 starts.

View attachment 92372 View attachment 92373
Illingworth is capable and may have a higher upside than Sanders in regards to passing. I'm not sure we have the depth of receivers we've enjoyed in the past however.

Ball security is a big deal and Sanders seems to struggle with that. Not including fumbles here is an interesting stat for some notable OSU QBs. These stats only include the years they had significant number of starts.

Rudolph for every 10 TD passes he threw 2.6 interceptions, Walsh 3.6, etc.

Rudolph: 2.6
Walsh: 3.6
Weeden: 3.7
Cornelius: 4.1
Chelf: 4.1
Illingworth: 4.4
Sanders 6.6
Garman: 10.0

View attachment 92374
Many may not agree with me. Josh Fields is the most underrated OSU QB of the modern era. He was the QB when OSU unearthed itself from the dark and miserable era. I'd take Fields over Garmen, Sanders, Chelf, Cornelius, Walsh, AND, yes, over Rudolph, any day of the week. Not sure about Shane yet. Go watch his YouTube highlights. He is far too underrated by OSU fans, although it has been a while since he was OSU'S QB, so I get that.
 

llcoolw

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That's part of the problem. The other guy has had his chances.

2020 and 2021 Sanders has 11 starts, Illingworth has 5 starts.

View attachment 92372 View attachment 92373
Illingworth is capable and may have a higher upside than Sanders in regards to passing. I'm not sure we have the depth of receivers we've enjoyed in the past however.

Ball security is a big deal and Sanders seems to struggle with that. Not including fumbles here is an interesting stat for some notable OSU QBs. These stats only include the years they had significant number of starts.

Rudolph for every 10 TD passes he threw 2.6 interceptions, Walsh 3.6, etc.

Rudolph: 2.6
Walsh: 3.6
Weeden: 3.7
Cornelius: 4.1
Chelf: 4.1
Illingworth: 4.4
Sanders 6.6
Garman: 10.0

View attachment 92374
10 for 10 baby!
 

andylicious

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Many may not agree with me. Josh Fields is the most underrated OSU QB of the modern era. He was the QB when OSU unearthed itself from the dark and miserable era. I'd take Fields over Garmen, Sanders, Chelf, Cornelius, Walsh, AND, yes, over Rudolph, any day of the week. Not sure about Shane yet. Go watch his YouTube highlights. He is far too underrated by OSU fans, although it has been a while since he was OSU'S QB, so I get that.
We do under rate Fields. I have thought for a long time the line up is Weeden, Fields, Rudolph, Chelf, Robinson with Chelf and Rudolph being a virtual tie until you consider Rudolph beat the goons at their place.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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I'm not saying they are world beaters, but neither is anyone in this conference. We have an opportunity to win or lose every remaining game sans KU. I expect us to win KU, TCU, Tech, ISU, WVU and maybe Texas...If we do that Katy bar the door for Bedlam in Stillwater in, maybe, the last football meeting between the two schools for a while. However that's getting way ahead of ourselves...let's just enjoy the off week and hope for green pastures in Austin in two weeks.
Well, at least for a week until the CCG.
 
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Birry

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Spencer can’t be fixed, at least not to the point that he’ll reach his potential. His mechanics are horrible and he hasn’t shown the ability to go thru progressions. Fans just need to sit back and cheer for the occasional success. The reality is he’s the best we have on campus.
I agree with you if we're talking about making him a game manager or a pocket passer. Neither of those things are his strength. His strength would be running the Zac Robinson style offense, but right now we're running some weird hybrid thing that really doesn't have much of an identity. It will be less effective as we play stronger teams, and can't just hand it to our RB 35+ times.

Oddly enough, SS reminds me a lot of Johnny Manziel. The only difference is that they let Manziel play his style, he seemed a little more aggressive than SS, and they likely had better WRs at A&M at that time. Watching Manziel's highlights, you see that he got incredibly lucky time after time, and it was just a matter of time before it caught up with him. So many of his crazy plays were terrible decisions that just ended up going the right way for whatever reason. SS just hasn't had the same luck that Manziel had, but I DO think he would have a higher ceiling if we just let him play all-out, and we lived with the inevitable INTs.

SS's true ceiling would be at WR or safety.
 
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Maybe so but I don’t think we have a better QB on the roster. For this season or next.
I doubt we do. However, his TO's kinda negate the positives. Obviously, the staff didn't trust him to throw after his third one the other night. We can't keep handing off 50 times a game. Seems like it would be worth giving SI another chance to see if he could open up the offense a bit.
 
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For all the people who criticized Gundy over and over for having no balls and playing it safe, how about everybody give it up to him going for it on fourth down to ice the game!
Gundy definitely has no balls, and plays it safe. It's actually the reason we had to go for it in that situation in the first place! He made the correct call to go for it, but it wasn't all some super gutsy call to go for it, nor would that one call nullify his ridiculously terrible game plan that put us in that position.
Gundy (mostly) plays the percentages, which most often results in what you call playing it safe.

Wonder what Gundy’s record is in one-score games in the 4th qtr? Record in one-score games?


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I won't be surprised if Sanders throws for 400 and 4TDs against Texas.

I think they'll fix the ball floating issue, what concerns me is that Baylor had free rushers in the backfield way too often. That cost us an int and a wide open TD.
 
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this is what is scary. pretty simple mechanics were horrible. his arm motion is simply bad, very slow release. then, he throws off his back foot. Rattay has to tweak without doing the whole new golf swing thing. picks were all high throws. you cannot adjust the plan for that as it eliminates the middle of the field and then you will not score.

no idea if Shane is better, that is the coaches job. so, if he is not better then that is still on the coaches for bad recruiting.

in the end, SS should be on very short leash. one bad high throw over the middle, pick or not, and he has to be out of the texas game. at that time, you have to give the other guy a chance.


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Unfortunately it's not that simple because the two are so different. You can't just interchange them, you have to tailor the whole game plan around which one is going to start. So making a switch would have to happen well before the game was played. Remember how reluctant Gundy was to play Weeden over Zac? If there were any idea to make the switch, now would be the time with a bye week to make the changes and practice them, and I just don't see it. This year is Sanders' year as the starter barring injury.
 

TheMonkey

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Unfortunately it's not that simple because the two are so different. You can't just interchange them, you have to tailor the whole game plan around which one is going to start. So making a switch would have to happen well before the game was played. Remember how reluctant Gundy was to play Weeden over Zac? If there were any idea to make the switch, now would be the time with a bye week to make the changes and practice them, and I just don't see it. This year is Sanders' year as the starter barring injury.
Let alone snap exchanges. Watch any game where a backup has to play unexpectedly. There’s usually at least one bad snap or handoff that often results in a turnover. They just don’t get enough reps unless you plan ahead to use them.
 
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I agree with you if we're talking about making him a game manager or a pocket passer. Neither of those things are his strength. His strength would be running the Zac Robinson style offense, but right now we're running some weird hybrid thing that really doesn't have much of an identity. It will be less effective as we play stronger teams, and can't just hand it to our RB 35+ times.

Oddly enough, SS reminds me a lot of Johnny Manziel. The only difference is that they let Manziel play his style, he seemed a little more aggressive than SS, and they likely had better WRs at A&M at that time. Watching Manziel's highlights, you see that he got incredibly lucky time after time, and it was just a matter of time before it caught up with him. So many of his crazy plays were terrible decisions that just ended up going the right way for whatever reason. SS just hasn't had the same luck that Manziel had, but I DO think he would have a higher ceiling if we just let him play all-out, and we lived with the inevitable INTs.

SS's true ceiling would be at WR or safety.
Sanders is nothing like Manziel besides the fact they both play QB. Manziel was a rare cat who had speed and made peps miss. He made things happen because he never dropped his head on any play. He would run around always looking for a receiver. He didn’t have the strongest of arms but he’s much more accurate than SS. I just watched some highlights of Manziel and I had forgot just how incredible he played. It’s to bad he a 2 cent head. Kyler Murray is Manziel with a stronger arm.
 

Birry

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Sanders is nothing like Manziel besides the fact they both play QB. Manziel was a rare cat who had speed and made peps miss. He made things happen because he never dropped his head on any play. He would run around always looking for a receiver. He didn’t have the strongest of arms but he’s much more accurate than SS. I just watched some highlights of Manziel and I had forgot just how incredible he played. It’s to bad he a 2 cent head. Kyler Murray is Manziel with a stronger arm.
I guess what I meant is that SS could have developed into a Manziel-ish player. More of a back yard, scramble drill type guy if he could get into that style of play, and was allowed to play his game. I think we're trying to make him a game manager, not a gamer, and its actually limiting his potential to an extent.