NCAA threatens pulling Women's College World Series in OKC over Transgender athletes bill

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andylicious

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So you're admitting to the latter.

Cool.

You're dismissed.



As are you.

Have a fantastic weekend, the both of you.
I wish I could buy your
So you're admitting to the latter.

Cool.

You're dismissed.



As are you.

Have a fantastic weekend, the both of you.

Just because you want a fact to change doesn't mean it will.
 

bleedinorange

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Jan 11, 2010
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Close, very close
So no accommodation whatsoever for trans athletes for you.

Got it.

Btw, are you a physician or endocrinologist with your professional medical opinion?
No accommodation whatsoever for trans athletes for me. The basis of professional opinion? Certainly not my BS Biology, MS +30 Biological Science with an emphasis on anatomy and physiology, 20yrs private school teacher, 5yrs adjunct professor in biology at the University of Tulsa. All of which means nothing. The inherent physical differences excepting anecdotal instances are what separates sporting records. Track and field, powerlifting, worlds strongest man competition, UFC, the list is long and conclusive. How many female professional basketball players can dunk?

The argument is silly and fraught with passion and opinion. Neither of which is ruled by empirical evidence only by who complains the loudest.. Imo
 

CowboyJD

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No accommodation whatsoever for trans athletes for me. The basis of professional opinion? Certainly not my BS Biology, MS +30 Biological Science with an emphasis on anatomy and physiology, 20yrs private school teacher, 5yrs adjunct professor in biology at the University of Tulsa. All of which means nothing. The inherent physical differences excepting anecdotal instances are what separates sporting records. Track and field, powerlifting, worlds strongest man competition, UFC, the list is long and conclusive. How many female professional basketball players can dunk?

The argument is silly and fraught with passion and opinion. Neither of which is ruled by empirical evidence only by who complains the loudest.. Imo
Cool.
 

CowboyJD

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Not much of a response for someone who challenges most things you disagree with. You're free to have at me since I've been warned by friends I have a "target on my back" to be permanently banned for having opinions contrary to the left wing echo chamber. I won't respond beyond what I've already posted. Enjoy.
I’m good. Not interested in wasting my time.

Left wing echo chamber? Here?

Lol.

Sounds like you’ve got a healthy victim complex working right now.

Best of luck with that.
 
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Jostate

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I don't know that there are really ever going to be enough trannies to destroy women's sports. There is another change in the works that will do more damage. It's the "pay the poor college athletes" story.

Not trying to derail the debate, but we all know these high end athletes in the high visibility sports generate the revenue that pays for non revenue (often women's) sports. If you suddenly have to give that money to the top athletes to compete, women's sports will loose their sugar daddy. That's the real risk to women's sports. Not the small percentage of men who have their genitals surgically altered, and throw on a sports bra.
 
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I don't know that there are really ever going to be enough trannies to destroy women's sports. There is another change in the works that will do more damage. It's the "pay the poor college athletes" story.

Not trying to derail the debate, but we all know these high end athletes in the high visibility sports generate the revenue that pays for non revenue (often women's) sports. If you suddenly have to give that money to the top athletes to compete, women's sports will loose their sugar daddy. That's the real risk to women's sports. Not the small percentage of men who have their genitals surgically altered, and throw on a sports bra.
If I was a fan of women’s sports I don’t think the numbers would be the concern. I think it’s more about relative dominance. Like say if the next Marion Jones, Serena Williams, Annika Sorenstam, Ronda Rousey, etcetera of their relative sport was trans. In that case that sport is effectively done for women as it would no longer be about who the best woman is.
 

Cimarron

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A non-partisan organization representing collegiate athletics (many of whom are public universities) attempts to strong arm American cities and states to bend to their political agenda.
 

Donnyboy

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No way Florida would risk losing all those Bowl games
Also no way the sport doesn’t play them. Regardless your stance this is the “battle ground” needed to test both sides resolve. Football drives everything if Florida put their heels in the sand I bet the NCAA would back off. Softball which loses money (although it’s rapidly growing) in a state that is irrelevant media wise is an easier hill to take. It appears Florida is blinking first.
 

andylicious

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Why in the heck would the NCAA hate women so much that they would push this? My favorite line in Oklahoma debate occurred yesterday when a guy on the House floor stated emphatically that biology could not determine how many sexes humans have. You can't fix stupid.
 
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The results show clearly that women are still not receiving an equal opportunity in sports like their male counterparts 33 years after the passage of Title IX in 80 percent of all schools and colleges.

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/title-ix-college-athletics-5.htm
interesting read..

"It is clear that women’s sports are growing at the expense of male sports. From 1992–1997 approximately 5,800 female athletes have been added to sports teams. During that same period over 20,000 male athletes were cut (Hoornstra 2002). While female athletes have gained a little, male athletes have lost a lot."

"Between 1981 and 1999, NCAA institutions have eliminated 40 percent of their wrestling teams. Most cited Title IX for the reason the program was cut. "
 

wrenhal

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Here is the actual NCAA rule on Transgender athletes....

The following policies clarify participation of transgender student-athletes undergoing hormonal treatment for gender transition:

1. A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who has received a medical exception for treatment with testosterone for diagnosed Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for purposes of NCAA competition may compete on a men’s team, but is no longer eligible to compete on a women’s team without changing that team status to a mixed team.

2. A trans female (MTF) student-athlete being treated with testosterone suppression medication for Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for the purposes of NCAA competition may continue to compete on a men’s team but may not compete on a women’s team without changing it to a mixed team status until completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment.

Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender.


• A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who is not taking testosterone related to gender transition may participate on a men’s or women’s team.

• A trans female (MTF) transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatments related to gender transition may not compete on a women’s team.

I don't know that many 17-18-19 year old dudes that are gonna be willing to go on hormone suppression therapy for a year to get a softball scholarship with the idea that they'll just get off them when they are done. It's just not going to happen with anybody or anything other than outliers.

IMO, this is another incredibly political, deliberately divisive issue being promoted (by both sides) to distract from real problems and real issues we have so they can stay in power without working on those issues. Passing an "assigned sex competition" law isn't going to wreck thousands of lives, IMO. The rules of NCAA allowing the transgender athletes under the circumstances of their rule also isn't going to wreck women sports either, IMO. It looks to me that the NCAA policy has been in place since 2010 based upon this link and I don't see women sports being wreck in the ensuing ten years. I'm not asking you to read all of it in anyway, but if you are actually interested, this document explains the rule and the thinking behind the rule.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Transgender_Handbook_2011_Final.pdf

IMO, the NCAA rule is a pretty good....not perfect, but pretty good...compromise on the situation.
Most of these rules in states are for state level competitions. The NCAA should not be weighing in on this. This is because of incidences similar to Connecticut girls track. Records being broken and bids to state championships being handed out to biological males.

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CowboyJD

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Most of these rules in states are for state level competitions. The NCAA should not be weighing in on this. This is because of incidences similar to Connecticut girls track. Records being broken and bids to state championships being handed out to biological males.

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THE NCAA should be allowed to weigh in on anything they want to weigh in on.

Particularly with regards to what conditions the NCAA athletes can or cannot compete.

You're sounding like you're not a big fan of free speech right now.
 

wrenhal

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Schuyler Bailar is a transgender male that transitioned during a gap year and then swam on the men's team, not the woman's team.

Schuyler Bailar is the guy that was interviewed by 60 minutes.

But you bring up an interesting rule of unintended consequences situation that can occur with these having to compete in the assigned sex at birth laws.

Mack Beggs, was an assigned female sex at birth that is a transmale at this point. He wanted to wrestle on the men's team in High School, but because Texas's rules only allow you to compete in the league for your assigned sex which was female. So he wrestled as a transmale against CIS-gendered females.

A gap year of transition and per se levels of established and documented hormone levels for a required period of time before competing seems the fairest way to handle all of these issues rationally and logically rather than emotionally...at least to me.
No it's not the fairest way forward. Males should not compete against females. There are two biological sexes, no amount of legalism can break that fact down. Even in the extremely rare hermaphrodite there is a genetic sex. It doesn't really matter how one wishes to "identify" the gene code still gives musculature advantages to genetic males no matter how much chemical you pump in them. Female hormone therapy is reversible, male hormone therapy is not.
Everyone tries to bring up intersex on this type of debate. Every discussion I see about it. (No one here yet so I guess I am). Only actual study on that shows they are . 00018%(I think that's the correct number of 0's) of the general population.
That is not a reason to fundamentally change girls sports at the high school level.

Puberty blockers are other medicines, not originally meant for this use. I believe that experimentation on children that can fundamentally alter their body chemistry, is cruel. After puberty, the fundamental changes have occurred though. I am a father of a girl and plenty of boys, and I can tell you that especially in high school, these boys that are transitioning, should not compete against girls. Even if you believe hormone therapy can somehow reverse several years of muscle and bone density growth; to remove the advantages, they would have to be on them for years. High school is not the place for them to be competing in girl's sports.

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CowboyJD

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Everyone tried to bring up intersex on this type of debate. Only actual study on that shows they are . 00018%(I think that's the correct number of 0's) of the general population.

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Non sequitur is very non sequitury.

Nobody was bringing up intersex in this debate here.

And I guess that small number of the general population isn't due fair consideration or access because it's so small. :rolleyes:
 

wrenhal

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So you're admitting to the latter.

Cool.

You're dismissed.



As are you.

Have a fantastic weekend, the both of you.
You just cant stop, I love it! Keep patronizing your way to victory! You started the antagonist behavior, I have behaved civilly toward you and now you want to bow out, but not before you have the last word, and im the one getting dismissed? Seriously, thank you for the smiles on a gloomy day.
He's not bowing out. He's telling you to bow out basically.

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wrenhal

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Most of these rules in states are for state level competitions. The NCAA should not be weighing in on this. This is because of incidences similar to Connecticut girls track. Records being broken and bids to state championships being handed out to biological males.

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THE NCAA should be allowed to weigh in on anything they want to weigh in on.

Particularly with regards to what conditions the NCAA athletes can or cannot compete.

You're sounding like you're not a big fan of free speech right now.
Ok, they can weigh in, but I honestly think they are being the normal paper tiger they usually are. If Florida or states with "blue blood" basketball/football programs challenged them, they would back down because they are already on the proverbial hot seat. It wouldn't surprise me that a decent majority of member schools want the ncaa gone and replaced.

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