NCAA threatens pulling Women's College World Series in OKC over Transgender athletes bill

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CowboyJD

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Here is the actual NCAA rule on Transgender athletes....

The following policies clarify participation of transgender student-athletes undergoing hormonal treatment for gender transition:

1. A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who has received a medical exception for treatment with testosterone for diagnosed Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for purposes of NCAA competition may compete on a men’s team, but is no longer eligible to compete on a women’s team without changing that team status to a mixed team.

2. A trans female (MTF) student-athlete being treated with testosterone suppression medication for Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for the purposes of NCAA competition may continue to compete on a men’s team but may not compete on a women’s team without changing it to a mixed team status until completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment.

Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender.


• A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who is not taking testosterone related to gender transition may participate on a men’s or women’s team.

• A trans female (MTF) transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatments related to gender transition may not compete on a women’s team.

I don't know that many 17-18-19 year old dudes that are gonna be willing to go on hormone suppression therapy for a year to get a softball scholarship with the idea that they'll just get off them when they are done. It's just not going to happen with anybody or anything other than outliers.

IMO, this is another incredibly political, deliberately divisive issue being promoted (by both sides) to distract from real problems and real issues we have so they can stay in power without working on those issues. Passing an "assigned sex competition" law isn't going to wreck thousands of lives, IMO. The rules of NCAA allowing the transgender athletes under the circumstances of their rule also isn't going to wreck women sports either, IMO. It looks to me that the NCAA policy has been in place since 2010 based upon this link and I don't see women sports being wreck in the ensuing ten years. I'm not asking you to read all of it in anyway, but if you are actually interested, this document explains the rule and the thinking behind the rule.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Transgender_Handbook_2011_Final.pdf

IMO, the NCAA rule is a pretty good....not perfect, but pretty good...compromise on the situation.
 

andylicious

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Schuyler Bailar is a transgender male that transitioned during a gap year and then swam on the men's team, not the woman's team.

Schuyler Bailar is the guy that was interviewed by 60 minutes.

But you bring up an interesting rule of unintended consequences situation that can occur with these having to compete in the assigned sex at birth laws.

Mack Beggs, was an assigned female sex at birth that is a transmale at this point. He wanted to wrestle on the men's team in High School, but because Texas's rules only allow you to compete in the league for your assigned sex which was female. So he wrestled as a transmale against CIS-gendered females.

A gap year of transition and per se levels of established and documented hormone levels for a required period of time before competing seems the fairest way to handle all of these issues rationally and logically rather than emotionally...at least to me.
No it's not the fairest way forward. Males should not compete against females. There are two biological sexes, no amount of legalism can break that fact down. Even in the extremely rare hermaphrodite there is a genetic sex. It doesn't really matter how one wishes to "identify" the gene code still gives musculature advantages to genetic males no matter how much chemical you pump in them. Female hormone therapy is reversible, male hormone therapy is not.
 

CowboyJD

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No it's not the fairest way forward. Males should not compete against females. There are two biological sexes, no amount of legalism can break that fact down. Even in the extremely rare hermaphrodite there is a genetic sex. It doesn't really matter how one wishes to "identify" the gene code still gives musculature advantages to genetic males no matter how much chemical you pump in them. Female hormone therapy is reversible, male hormone therapy is not.
Cool.

You’re in the “ no trans access”....”assigned sex only” group.

Got it.

I’M NOT LOOKING TO CHANGE ANYONE’S MIND....I just don’t feel a need to spend any time discussing the issues further with folks like you.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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Cool.

You’re in the “ no trans access”....”assigned sex only” group.

Got it.

I’M NOT LOOKING TO CHANGE ANYONE’S MIND....I just don’t feel a need to spend any time discussing the issues further with folks like you.
Then why are you discussing it with people like us still. If you have no interest in this topic and it is pointless to discuss things with us then why are you replying to people?
 
Jul 10, 2009
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Here is the actual NCAA rule on Transgender athletes....

The following policies clarify participation of transgender student-athletes undergoing hormonal treatment for gender transition:

1. A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who has received a medical exception for treatment with testosterone for diagnosed Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for purposes of NCAA competition may compete on a men’s team, but is no longer eligible to compete on a women’s team without changing that team status to a mixed team.

2. A trans female (MTF) student-athlete being treated with testosterone suppression medication for Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for the purposes of NCAA competition may continue to compete on a men’s team but may not compete on a women’s team without changing it to a mixed team status until completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment.

Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender.

• A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who is not taking testosterone related to gender transition may participate on a men’s or women’s team.

• A trans female (MTF) transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatments related to gender transition may not compete on a women’s team.

I don't know that many 17-18-19 year old dudes that are gonna be willing to go on hormone suppression therapy for a year to get a softball scholarship with the idea that they'll just get off them when they are done. It's just not going to happen with anybody or anything other than outliers.

IMO, this is another incredibly political, deliberately divisive issue being promoted (by both sides) to distract from real problems and real issues we have so they can stay in power without working on those issues. Passing an "assigned sex competition" law isn't going to wreck thousands of lives, IMO. The rules of NCAA allowing the transgender athletes under the circumstances of their rule also isn't going to wreck women sports either, IMO. It looks to me that the NCAA policy has been in place since 2010 based upon this link and I don't see women sports being wreck in the ensuing ten years. I'm not asking you to read all of it in anyway, but if you are actually interested, this document explains the rule and the thinking behind the rule.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Transgender_Handbook_2011_Final.pdf

IMO, the NCAA rule is a pretty good....not perfect, but pretty good...compromise on the situation.

Thank you for sharing that. I think those rules allay most of my concerns. We hear about the Connecticut situation where there are basically no rules and that it the situation I was concerned about.
 

CowboyJD

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Then why are you discussing it with people like us still. If you have no interest in this topic and it is pointless to discuss things with us then why are you replying to people?
You might want to check into the fact that it's you and andy responding to my opinion that I expressed instead of the other way around that led to our entire engagement.

Then I told both of you I disagree, am not trying to change your mind, but am looking for discussion with folks that aren't already "sex assigned at birth competition only" set in stone opinion holders....which both of you clearly are.

To which you responded as you have here.....seemingly triggered you for some reason and trying to engage further with someone that just told you that he understands where you stand, doesn't agree with you, isn't going to try to change your opinion, and is good with leaving it there.

I don't see why that is a problem....unless you're just wanting to argue ad nauseum....restating our opinions over and again knowing there will be no resolution or further valuable engagement....which inevitably turns into name calling on this board.
 

CocoCincinnati

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I'm waiting for some clever lawyer to sue the ncaa claiming that their policy on trans athletes might violate title 9. That would be entertaining.

At the end of the day, this issue effects such a small percentage of the population that I find it amazing both parties are able to convince us they are actually doing their job by focusing on it instead of on issues that effect all of us so much more.
 

OSUCowboy787

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I'm waiting for some clever lawyer to sue the ncaa claiming that their policy on trans athletes might violate title 9. That would be entertaining.

At the end of the day, this issue effects such a small percentage of the population that I find it amazing both parties are able to convince us they are actually doing their job by focusing on it instead of on issues that effect all of us so much more.
Because the more divisive the issue the more anger people will have with the opposing view. The more angry someone is the more focused they get on a subject or event and are easier to manipulate.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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You might want to check into the fact that it's you and andy responding to my opinion that I expressed instead of the other way around that led to our entire engagement.

Then I told both of you I disagree, am not trying to change your mind, but am looking for discussion with folks that aren't already "sex assigned at birth competition only" set in stone opinion holders....which both of you clearly are.

To which you responded as you have here.....seemingly triggered you for some reason and trying to engage further with someone that just told you that he understands where you stand, doesn't agree with you, isn't going to try to change your opinion, and is good with leaving it there.

I don't see why that is a problem....unless you're just wanting to argue ad nauseum....restating our opinions over and again knowing there will be no resolution or further valuable engagement....which inevitably turns into name calling on this board.
And now you are arguing about an argument that you dont want to have, im in it for the chuckles at this point, please continue.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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I'm waiting for some clever lawyer to sue the ncaa claiming that their policy on trans athletes might violate title 9. That would be entertaining.

At the end of the day, this issue effects such a small percentage of the population that I find it amazing both parties are able to convince us they are actually doing their job by focusing on it instead of on issues that effect all of us so much more.
Good luck.
 

CowboyJD

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Thank you for sharing that. I think those rules allay most of my concerns. We hear about the Connecticut situation where there are basically no rules and that it the situation I was concerned about.
You are welcome.
 
May 31, 2007
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Then why are you discussing it with people like us still. If you have no interest in this topic and it is pointless to discuss things with us then why are you replying to people?
Because you don't believe in biology?
I don’t really have a dog in the fight because I don’t watch nor really care about women’s sports. It’s an interesting topic to discuss but at the end of the day destroying women’s sports doesn’t really bother me. But as far as I can tell you guys sound like you are both pro women’s sports and aren’t “anti” anything.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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So you're admitting to the latter.

Cool.

You're dismissed.



As are you.

Have a fantastic weekend, the both of you.
You just cant stop, I love it! Keep patronizing your way to victory! You started the antagonist behavior, I have behaved civilly toward you and now you want to bow out, but not before you have the last word, and im the one getting dismissed? Seriously, thank you for the smiles on a gloomy day.
 

Cimarron

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I'm waiting for some clever lawyer to sue the ncaa claiming that their policy on trans athletes might violate title 9. That would be entertaining.

At the end of the day, this issue effects such a small percentage of the population that I find it amazing both parties are able to convince us they are actually doing their job by focusing on it instead of on issues that effect all of us so much more.
It's time for the NCAA to be dismantled and start over with a new slat of people and a re-write of the rules.