NCAA threatens pulling Women's College World Series in OKC over Transgender athletes bill

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Mar 11, 2006
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#42
it is estimated that ~1% of all NCAA athletes are Trans and Trans people make up less than 1% of the total US population. Sounds like something Oklahoma should write legislation about and then spend money in court fighting for, while threatening millions of $$ in yearly revenue for the state
I saw a report that the NCAA reported 494K student athletes for the year 2018. I highly doubt there are +4900 transgender NCAA athletes.

But if there gets to be anywhere close to that number, then sports would change dramatically. If NCAA does not alter its stated policy... women wanting to compete in sports would be the loser.
 

StillwaterTownie

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#44
It sounds like another kind of controversial issue in which the government doesn't have enough good sense to deal with, and so should stay out of it and let organizations most impacted by it figure out how to deal with it. As someone who doesn't know a whole lot about transsexual sports issues, I would suggest requiring males, who feel like women, to first be castrated before competing with real women.
 

oks10

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#48
I was telling my wife about this last night and found myself getting more worked up than I thought I would... I'm not sure if my daughter (6) will want to get into sports since my family isn't that big into athletics but the thought of her being limited because of what another person thinks they are gets under my skin. And @Binman4OSU 's e-sports post actually pissed me off a bit. If a woman/girl wants to excel in an athletic sport, they shouldn't be told "too bad, there's always e-sports though" because of people that identify as females who are genetically males blocking them from excelling. Regardless of what you think you are, having male genetics puts you in a physical advantage over those with female genetics. I truly do not understand how people that are feminist or for women's rights aren't up in arms about this. Also, that whole "military capabilities" post seemed like a complete cop out. We still have individual sports that our militaries aged out of before the US military even existed...
 

Binman4OSU

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#49
I was telling my wife about this last night and found myself getting more worked up than I thought I would... I'm not sure if my daughter (6) will want to get into sports since my family isn't that big into athletics but the thought of her being limited because of what another person thinks they are gets under my skin. And @Binman4OSU 's e-sports post actually pissed me off a bit. If a woman/girl wants to excel in an athletic sport, they shouldn't be told "too bad, there's always e-sports though" because of people that identify as females who are genetically males blocking them from excelling. Regardless of what you think you are, having male genetics puts you in a physical advantage over those with female genetics. I truly do not understand how people that are feminist or for women's rights aren't up in arms about this. Also, that whole "military capabilities" post seemed like a complete cop out. We still have individual sports that our militaries aged out of before the US military even existed...
To be clear. The stuff about e-sports is my own opinion and observation. We will see if it plays out that way, but I have sneaking suspicion it will because of the transgender issue. And for what it is worth, I think women themselves will lead the revolution into e-sports and not be forced into it.

As for the transgender issue as it stands now. I don't understand why feminist and women's rights groups aren't up in arms either. The current NCAA standards for trans women do NOT hold up under scientific study and shows that the NCAA requirements do very little to level the playing field between trans athletes and women.

The NCAA is effectively letting trans athletes play on guidelines which scientifically are proven NOT to level the play field. it is insane it is allowed to happen today this way.

I will support Transgender athletes playing women's sports when a treatment method which can be proven to level the playing field is identified and implemented.
 

Binman4OSU

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#50
To be fair, I also think it is insane to create legislation to regulate something that less than 1% of the US population falls into a category of AND participates in sports. It is just over regulation at this point based on a moral viewpoint that will cost the state money to defend in court.
 

oks10

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#51
To be fair, I also think it is insane to create legislation to regulate something that less than 1% of the US population falls into a category of AND participates in sports. It is just over regulation at this point based on a moral viewpoint that will cost the state money to defend in court.
I'm on the fence. I'm more of the opinion that they shouldn't NEED to create legislation and that the NCAA should handle it. But as you pointed out, the NCAA is aiding/worsening the issue, not correcting it. So, I don't know what else there is to do aside from having individuals sue the NCAA which I don't know if they'd have any success with. Legislation might be necessary if the NCAA isn't going to fix it, but like you also said this currently a VERY small scale problem so now is probably not the time to worry about it.
 

Binman4OSU

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#52
I'm on the fence. I'm more of the opinion that they shouldn't NEED to create legislation and that the NCAA should handle it. But as you pointed out, the NCAA is aiding/worsening the issue, not correcting it. So, I don't know what else there is to do aside from having individuals sue the NCAA which I don't know if they'd have any success with. Legislation might be necessary if the NCAA isn't going to fix it, but like you also said this currently a VERY small scale problem so now is probably not the time to worry about it.
yeah, you would think the first step would be for the State AG's to get together who support legislation and approach the NCAA and then threaten them as a group to get better guidelines or they will be forced to consider legislation at each state level to address it. Their argument should be the NCAA guidelines are insufficient.

Instead we and other states just jumped in and started making legislation. Legislation doesn't solve everything and they need to work together to solve this and instead are creating conflict via legislation. It is a horrible approach to the issue.
 

cowboyinexile

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#53
I was telling my wife about this last night and found myself getting more worked up than I thought I would... I'm not sure if my daughter (6) will want to get into sports since my family isn't that big into athletics but the thought of her being limited because of what another person thinks they are gets under my skin. And @Binman4OSU 's e-sports post actually pissed me off a bit. If a woman/girl wants to excel in an athletic sport, they shouldn't be told "too bad, there's always e-sports though" because of people that identify as females who are genetically males blocking them from excelling. Regardless of what you think you are, having male genetics puts you in a physical advantage over those with female genetics. I truly do not understand how people that are feminist or for women's rights aren't up in arms about this. Also, that whole "military capabilities" post seemed like a complete cop out. We still have individual sports that our militaries aged out of before the US military even existed...
What if your daughter was born male and track was the only thing that made her feel like life was worth living?

This is a complicated issue and I don't know what to make of it. On one hand I think everyone who talks about how this negatively impacts women who were born that way have a great and logical point. On the other, I don't know that any of us has a child who isn't sure who they really are and I don't know that I would want to limit experiences if it were my kid just because someone else says it isn't fair.

None of this is an easy decision.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#54
What if your daughter was born male and track was the only thing that made her feel like life was worth living?

This is a complicated issue and I don't know what to make of it. On one hand I think everyone who talks about how this negatively impacts women who were born that way have a great and logical point. On the other, I don't know that any of us has a child who isn't sure who they really are and I don't know that I would want to limit experiences if it were my kid just because someone else says it isn't fair.

None of this is an easy decision.
There is NOTHING prohibiting a daughter born male from participating in men’s sports. It would be discrimination if teams were not allowing trans students to compete in a sport of their biological birth —- but I have not heard of any case like that. They are not having a limit on experiences.
 

OrangeFan69

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#55
I'm sure the nonbinary sports will be a huge income stream to the universities.
Sports aren’t a revenue stream. The schools are registered as non-profits. They are scholarship opportunities to promote the university through athletic competitions.

No one is getting rich of amateur athletics you silly goose, just because most of the BMWs and Mercedes you find on college campuses employee lots are in the athletic facilities.
 

cowboyinexile

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#56
There is NOTHING prohibiting a daughter born male from participating in men’s sports. It would be discrimination if teams were not allowing trans students to compete in a sport of their biological birth —- but I have not heard of any case like that. They are not having a limit on experiences.
That's a good point. And maybe the best answer on this.
 
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#57
Go watch the youtube videos of Fallon Fox beating up women in MMA without telling them that she spent 30 years as a man. Look at the runners in Connecticut who now hold all of the state records for sprinting who were average male runners a couple of years ago. If you want women's sports to exist, you need to keep genetically male people out of them.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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#58
There is NOTHING prohibiting a daughter born male from participating in men’s sports. It would be discrimination if teams were not allowing trans students to compete in a sport of their biological birth —- but I have not heard of any case like that. They are not having a limit on experiences.
what you do see is a female transitioning to male, getting on testosterone, and then competing in womens sports. Basically getting away with using PEDs to win.
 

Binman4OSU

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#59
what you do see is a female transitioning to male, getting on testosterone, and then competing in womens sports. Basically getting away with using PEDs to win.
the crazy thing is. the NCAA guidelines right now ALLOW for a bio women to get on to Testosterone treatment as long as they have a detailed treatment plan with a doctor, those transgender people can play on a Male NCAA team, even though they are taking a NCAA banned substance that is considered a PED.
 

OSUCowboy787

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#60
what you do see is a female transitioning to male, getting on testosterone, and then competing in womens sports. Basically getting away with using PEDs to win.
Would still be more fair for a couple years on testosterone versus an entire childhood. I'm of the opinion though trans SHOULD be allowed to compete in Mens events but not women's. Have you ever seen a PGA tour player compete in the LPGA? You have seen a woman on a PGA tour event though. And if that is considered unfair then create their own Trans league and hope they can have enough to field an event.