Murderer's Row MBB

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Jul 25, 2018
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Boulder, CO
#41
On recent teams, I think the depth concern is the huge drop-off in the "starter" quality and players 6-8. Yor is the only player that we really miss from last year's team and that showed against WV, KU, and TCU.

I agree with @Herecomesbullets about the quality. We have depth when it comes to good players. However we are missing the 3 players that score 60% of the points or 2 players that score around 50%. We don't have the Reeves-Rutherford OR Joey-JL3 w/McFarlin OR Smart-Brown-Nash. We have a lot of contributors, that occasionally have high scoring games.
Doesn't that describe about 120 teams?

How much value do guys 6 through 8 have if you don't have the top end guys?
 

RutherfordFan

Federal Marshal
Feb 5, 2008
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Oklahoma City
#42
At best, we are an average Big 12 team. It is looking more likely we will end up a below average team. And we have what everyone says is the top pick in the upcoming draft.

Is Cade not as good as advertised?
Is the rest of our talent not Big 12 caliber?
Is our coaching not Big 12 caliber?

We will see how we finish, but. What good does it do to have a one and done, top draft pick, and not make the tournament?
We are gonna make the NCAA tournament..do you not look at bracketology? We will get in but Boynton is not a very good in game coach. He needs to improve. Just reality. Also he had lost kids. Can't keep guys. I like him personally but just being real.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Corinth, TX & Graz, Austria
#43
Doesn't that describe about 120 teams?

How much value do guys 6 through 8 have if you don't have the top end guys?
I think having 2 star players is the main difference between having a legitimate shot at the Final 4 and just being a really good team.

It is why Smart-Brown-Nash team was considered an underperformer by many OSU fans, when it came to the NCAA Tournament. That team was mentioned quite a bit over Ford's last few years especially since it had 2 NBA first round picks on it.

As for 6-8 players. I think they provide a lot of stability to the team and development for the future. Stability for in game injuries, foul trouble, match-ups, and fatigue. If the drop-off is too much, then you are limited on what you can do. This year, when a player like Dee Mitchell plays there is a much bigger drop off compared to the last two years, when he played out of necessity.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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Boulder, CO
#44
I think having 2 star players is the main difference between having a legitimate shot at the Final 4 and just being a really good team.

It is why Smart-Brown-Nash team was considered an underperformer by many OSU fans, when it came to the NCAA Tournament. That team was mentioned quite a bit over Ford's last few years especially since it had 2 NBA first round picks on it.

As for 6-8 players. I think they provide a lot of stability to the team and development for the future. Stability for in game injuries, foul trouble, match-ups, and fatigue. If the drop-off is too much, then you are limited on what you can do. This year, when a player like Dee Mitchell plays there is a much bigger drop off compared to the last two years, when he played out of necessity.
I agree, I just find all of the 'building depth' talk somewhat meaningless right now. Given the amount of roster turnover under Boynton, 'building depth' seems to be a yearly cry that's intended to say the program's moving in the right direction. Then a player or 2 leaves & we're 'young' again & the guys just need experience.

If a guy can't turn a basketball program around in 4-5 years, he ain't the guy to do it.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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#45
I think having 2 star players is the main difference between having a legitimate shot at the Final 4 and just being a really good team.

It is why Smart-Brown-Nash team was considered an underperformer by many OSU fans, when it came to the NCAA Tournament. That team was mentioned quite a bit over Ford's last few years especially since it had 2 NBA first round picks on it.

As for 6-8 players. I think they provide a lot of stability to the team and development for the future. Stability for in game injuries, foul trouble, match-ups, and fatigue. If the drop-off is too much, then you are limited on what you can do. This year, when a player like Dee Mitchell plays there is a much bigger drop off compared to the last two years, when he played out of necessity.
I agree, I just find all of the 'building depth' talk somewhat meaningless right now. Given the amount of roster turnover under Boynton, 'building depth' seems to be a yearly cry that's intended to say the program's moving in the right direction. Then a player or 2 leaves & we're 'young' again & the guys just need experience.

If a guy can't turn a basketball program around in 4-5 years, he ain't the guy to do it.
Well next year should be about the lowest turnover this program has seen, with 1 for sure notable exits, and we’ll see what the seniors who have the option for an extra year do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Aug 30, 2018
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Jonesville South Carolina
#46
Next year better bring some inside presence to the table. Boone better be a weight room warrior, MAM too. The guards are plentiful, OSU needs some beef/rim protectors inside or they will be at best right where they are now; .500 in conference play. I really wish Yor was still with this team. The TCU/WVU/KU/UT losses may not have happened.
 
Nov 27, 2007
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Tulsa
#48
Let's review why we have lost games and think this through.

Bonehead plays down the stretch
Too many turnovers in crucial moments
Getting off to slow starts
Foul trouble
Lack of depth in the front court

We have lost games because of lack of experience and youth. We average second in scoring per game in the best basketball league in America.

NBA drafts on potential and measurables. Cade is still raw and still a freshmen. He is a 6'8 point guard with a 7'2 wingspan that facilitates to a young team. We could have Kobe Bryant in 1996 on this team and perform about the same. Even Kobe was very raw coming into the NBA finals that year. Cade is his same age...
All that is true. All of that happens with a young, inexperienced club with a limited offseason.

The other interesting thing is that we are 4 baskets away from being 16-2, #2 in the Big12 and probably top 10 in the country. Hopefully as the season comes to a close, they can figure out how limit the bonehead plays, tighten up the turnovers, and stay out of foul trouble.

Honestly, this is one of those teams that when they are playing a good clean game... They could beat anyone. However, if they continue to do what you mentioned, there is not a team in the tourney that couldn't beat them.

Just keep getting better, Just keep winning! Go Pokes!
 
Mar 7, 2020
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Oklahoma City
#49
IMO the season being a success hinges on winning a tournament game. You have the projected top pick on your roster and haven't won a tournament game in many years. It's time. You go one and done...I feel most fans will call the season a failure. Win some games down the stretch and avoid the 8/9 matchup would be ideal.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#50
My wish is that the NCAA either upholds the postseason ban for this year or we win the appeal and there is no postseason ban. Having the ban for next year can be very detrimental. How do we convince transfers with only one year left to come to our team? And those type of guys are going to be a premium from now on because now they don't have to be graduate transfers. Everyone gets a 1 time transfer with no penalty. Think about Ice jumping on a contender next year if so chooses. He wouldn't transfer to a school with a postseason ban.

Many have mentioned our team has struggled to "get old". If we had some quality seniors to compliment Cade that would be great. A Mitchell Solomon type guy would be great for this team. My concern is we can't get old if the postseason ban carries to next year, not to mention if we get scholarship limitations.
 
Aug 29, 2004
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#51
Heres my concern for next year....
I think it's a very plausible scenario that our appeal doesn't get addressed until after this year so Cunningham, the #1 pick in the draft, gets to play in the NCAA tournament.

Then, we get banned for next year.

At that point one would have to assume that there will be a good chance that Ice would need to leave for his Senior year.

I think that cloud is hanging over this year's Recruiting class as well.

Without Ice next year, OSU would be a very average team.

I don't see Ice leaving this team, even if the post season ban is instituted next season. He has a very strong relationship with Boynton, so I doubt he'd transfer out for his last season.
Prior to this season he had a good shot of being a 2nd round pick in the draft, but his lingering foot injury probably eliminates that possibility. I think he needs a strong showing his senior year to reinstate his draft status.
 
Aug 29, 2004
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#52
I agree with everything you said.

We lose the top pick in the NBA draft this year.

Will we be better next year without Cunningham?
I don't think there will be much of a dropoff next season without Cunningham. There are a lot of examples this season where the offensive flow has been better when Cunningham hasn't played (2 missed games for Covid, couple of games where he had 2 early fouls and sat most of first half). This isn't a shot at Cunningham - he's still a lottery pick and more than likely will have a solid NBA career - but unfortunately it's obvious the team relies on him offensively when trailing in games, and that leads to a stagnant offense as the rest of the team watches Cunningham.
If Ice, Boone, Anderson, Walker and Moncrief keep improving, that's a solid starting 5. If Williams and Flavors return, and the coaching staff could find a big man with some bulk somewhere, the 2021-2022 team should be more than competitive.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#53
I don't think there will be much of a dropoff next season without Cunningham. There are a lot of examples this season where the offensive flow has been better when Cunningham hasn't played (2 missed games for Covid, couple of games where he had 2 early fouls and sat most of first half). This isn't a shot at Cunningham - he's still a lottery pick and more than likely will have a solid NBA career - but unfortunately it's obvious the team relies on him offensively when trailing in games, and that leads to a stagnant offense as the rest of the team watches Cunningham.
If Ice, Boone, Anderson, Walker and Moncrief keep improving, that's a solid starting 5. If Williams and Flavors return, and the coaching staff could find a big man with some bulk somewhere, the 2021-2022 team should be more than competitive.
I agree if we keep the roster in tact and add a piece we will have similar performance level as this season for next. Adding that big man piece with a postseason ban could be difficult. We certainly are not in on any impact freshmen for next year, so it's going to be the transfer route. That's my concern with this postseason ban next year.
 
Aug 29, 2004
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Austin, TX
#54
I agree if we keep the roster in tact and add a piece we will have similar performance level as this season for next. Adding that big man piece with a postseason ban could be difficult. We certainly are not in on any impact freshmen for next year, so it's going to be the transfer route. That's my concern with this postseason ban next year.
I agree if we keep the roster in tact and add a piece we will have similar performance level as this season for next. Adding that big man piece with a postseason ban could be difficult. We certainly are not in on any impact freshmen for next year, so it's going to be the transfer route. That's my concern with this postseason ban next year.
Agree that it won't be easy - for some reason we've always had a difficult time attracting big men. I'm hopeful that will change with the new transfer rules. Probably our best bet is to find one at the end of the season after a coaching change on his end.
 
Mar 27, 2008
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#55
My wish is that the NCAA either upholds the postseason ban for this year or we win the appeal and there is no postseason ban. Having the ban for next year can be very detrimental. How do we convince transfers with only one year left to come to our team? And those type of guys are going to be a premium from now on because now they don't have to be graduate transfers. Everyone gets a 1 time transfer with no penalty. Think about Ice jumping on a contender next year if so chooses. He wouldn't transfer to a school with a postseason ban.

Many have mentioned our team has struggled to "get old". If we had some quality seniors to compliment Cade that would be great. A Mitchell Solomon type guy would be great for this team. My concern is we can't get old if the postseason ban carries to next year, not to mention if we get scholarship limitations.
This is an excellent point and something I hadn't thought about. My mind just went from hoping the ban is next year to hoping it is this year. Crazy
 
Dec 21, 2008
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#56
Big 12 Coaches:
Self HOF
Huggins HOF LOCK
Krueger HOF LOCK
S Drew- HOF LOCK
Beard- Assumed HOF if he continues his path
Dixon- Assumed HOF
Smart- any postseason success & prob HOF
Weber- on track to HOF but recent woes could cost him his job. Next 2 yrs will determine his projected path

ISU- no

OSU- inexperienced
“This” is why it feels like he’s not a good in-game coach. There’s things that drive me crazy also.

I use to love when Eddie would snap a TO when a guy bricked a hero ball 3 or drove into triple coverage and turned it over selfishly. Guys learned from that. I’m not sure if timeout #s have changed since they get all the TV timeouts now but Eddie sent big messages that stupid selfish stuff wouldn’t be tolerated. That’s how guys developed.

I still don’t understand our defense either. If you have no offense you still should be an elite defender. All it is is effort, toughness and hustle. Seems like our guys pace themselves so they don’t have to come out for being tired. I use to love watching Eddie’s teams when John Lucas III would slap the court after a big make. Those dudes were TOUGH year after year. I figured having Scott on staff we would get to a tougher image but we haven’t gotten even close...yet
 

POPOKE

Territorial Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Feb 7, 2007
6,264
4,269
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South Carolina
#57
Big 12 Coaches:
Self HOF
Huggins HOF LOCK
Krueger HOF LOCK
S Drew- HOF LOCK
Beard- Assumed HOF if he continues his path
Dixon- Assumed HOF
Smart- any postseason success & prob HOF
Weber- on track to HOF but recent woes could cost him his job. Next 2 yrs will determine his projected path

ISU- no

OSU- inexperienced
“This” is why it feels like he’s not a good in-game coach. There’s things that drive me crazy also.

I use to love when Eddie would snap a TO when a guy bricked a hero ball 3 or drove into triple coverage and turned it over selfishly. Guys learned from that. I’m not sure if timeout #s have changed since they get all the TV timeouts now but Eddie sent big messages that stupid selfish stuff wouldn’t be tolerated. That’s how guys developed.

I still don’t understand our defense either. If you have no offense you still should be an elite defender. All it is is effort, toughness and hustle. Seems like our guys pace themselves so they don’t have to come out for being tired. I use to love watching Eddie’s teams when John Lucas III would slap the court after a big make. Those dudes were TOUGH year after year. I figured having Scott on staff we would get to a tougher image but we haven’t gotten even close...yet
Kruger and Scott Drew HOF locks? Shaka Smart is so far from the HOF it’s not even funny. GTFOH with that nonsense.
 
Nov 2, 2004
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Broken Arrow
#59
At best, we are an average Big 12 team. It is looking more likely we will end up a below average team. And we have what everyone says is the top pick in the upcoming draft.

Is Cade not as good as advertised?
Is the rest of our talent not Big 12 caliber?
Is our coaching not Big 12 caliber?

We will see how we finish, but. What good does it do to have a one and done, top draft pick, and not make the tournament?
#3...
 
Sep 23, 2010
1,450
990
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#60
Big 12 Coaches:
Self HOF
Huggins HOF LOCK
Krueger HOF LOCK
S Drew- HOF LOCK
Beard- Assumed HOF if he continues his path
Dixon- Assumed HOF
Smart- any postseason success & prob HOF
Weber- on track to HOF but recent woes could cost him his job. Next 2 yrs will determine his projected path

ISU- no

OSU- inexperienced
“This” is why it feels like he’s not a good in-game coach. There’s things that drive me crazy also.

I use to love when Eddie would snap a TO when a guy bricked a hero ball 3 or drove into triple coverage and turned it over selfishly. Guys learned from that. I’m not sure if timeout #s have changed since they get all the TV timeouts now but Eddie sent big messages that stupid selfish stuff wouldn’t be tolerated. That’s how guys developed.

I still don’t understand our defense either. If you have no offense you still should be an elite defender. All it is is effort, toughness and hustle. Seems like our guys pace themselves so they don’t have to come out for being tired. I use to love watching Eddie’s teams when John Lucas III would slap the court after a big make. Those dudes were TOUGH year after year. I figured having Scott on staff we would get to a tougher image but we haven’t gotten even close...yet
Huggs and I think Krueger will eventually make HOF. Drew is actually a maybe if he continues to have sustained success for a long time. Ultimate turn around job no matter how much people don't like Drew. Smart has no chance. Beard has a lot of time. Weber and Dixon will not be HOF but be considered quality college coaches.

But your point stands that the league is littered with quality coaches. Prohm might be the only guy that you take MB over at this point, and Prohm has a much stronger resume at Murray State and taking over Hoiberg's talent.