Murderer's Row MBB

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Sep 24, 2011
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#5
At best, we are an average Big 12 team. It is looking more likely we will end up a below average team. And we have what everyone says is the top pick in the upcoming draft.

Is Cade not as good as advertised?
Is the rest of our talent not Big 12 caliber?
Is our coaching not Big 12 caliber?

We will see how we finish, but. What good does it do to have a one and done, top draft pick, and not make the tournament?
 

PF5

Cowboy
Jan 3, 2014
924
286
613
#6
At best, we are an average Big 12 team. It is looking more likely we will end up a below average team. And we have what everyone says is the top pick in the upcoming draft.

Is Cade not as good as advertised?
Is the rest of our talent not Big 12 caliber?
Is our coaching not Big 12 caliber?

We will see how we finish, but. What good does it do to have a one and done, top draft pick, and not make the tournament?
Yes, just don't have "dudes" around him.
yes and no, Big 12 caliber if you're talking average players (mostly). But also very young.
Not sold...Opinion: Boynton - great recruiter, average HC.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#7
At best, we are an average Big 12 team. It is looking more likely we will end up a below average team. And we have what everyone says is the top pick in the upcoming draft.

Is Cade not as good as advertised?
Is the rest of our talent not Big 12 caliber?
Is our coaching not Big 12 caliber?

We will see how we finish, but. What good does it do to have a one and done, top draft pick, and not make the tournament?
It would be a pretty big upset for us not to make the tournament.

Beat KSrate and Iowa State and that puts us at 7 wins in Conference.

1 more win from the remaining games locks us in.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#8
Yes, just don't have "dudes" around him.
yes and no, Big 12 caliber if you're talking average players (mostly). But also very young.
Not sold...Opinion: Boynton - great recruiter, average HC.
If the talent around Cade is average in terms of Big 12 caliber, then why do you consider Boynton to be a great recruiter?
 

PF5

Cowboy
Jan 3, 2014
924
286
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#9
If the talent around Cade is average in terms of Big 12 caliber, then why do you consider Boynton to be a great recruiter?
valid...I'll change it to good, not great..I am basing that on getting the potential #1 pick in nba draft (nice hire of brother), and the fact that recruiting "grades" have improved the last couple of years...I did say they were young, so I think they have the potential to be really good, as opposed to average with more experience and better coaching...just watching games, I don't feel he is a good "game coach".
 
Nov 27, 2007
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Tulsa
#10
If the talent around Cade is average in terms of Big 12 caliber, then why do you consider Boynton to be a great recruiter?
valid...I'll change it to good, not great..I am basing that on getting the potential #1 pick in nba draft (nice hire of brother), and the fact that recruiting "grades" have improved the last couple of years...I did say they were young, so I think they have the potential to be really good, as opposed to average with more experience and better coaching...just watching games, I don't feel he is a good "game coach".
Fun fact. Boynton had back to back National Top 25 classes. That has not been done at this school in at least 20 years. The last top 25 class prior to Boynton was 2009.

The way you build a team of dudes getting consistently good recruiting classes. When you’re able to do that you build depth. Depth is what separates the haves from the have-nots. He is building that depth.
 
Dec 20, 2005
348
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#11
Let's review why we have lost games and think this through.

Bonehead plays down the stretch
Too many turnovers in crucial moments
Getting off to slow starts
Foul trouble
Lack of depth in the front court

We have lost games because of lack of experience and youth. We average second in scoring per game in the best basketball league in America.

NBA drafts on potential and measurables. Cade is still raw and still a freshmen. He is a 6'8 point guard with a 7'2 wingspan that facilitates to a young team. We could have Kobe Bryant in 1996 on this team and perform about the same. Even Kobe was very raw coming into the NBA finals that year. Cade is his same age...
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#12
Fun fact. Boynton had back to back National Top 25 classes. That has not been done at this school in at least 20 years. The last top 25 class prior to Boynton was 2009.

The way you build a team of dudes getting consistently good recruiting classes. When you’re able to do that you build depth. Depth is what separates the haves from the have-nots. He is building that depth.
The problem with that though is that Marcus Watson was the highest recruit in last years class and isn't here and Cade Cunningham will only be here 1 year.

So.....of the 2 headliners from the last 2 classes, OSU is going to get a total of 1 year combined.

Beyond that, Avery Anderson has been good for us this year, but other than him, Kalib Boone is the only other contributor from last years class and he is very inconsistent.

That class isn't adding either depth or star power right now.

Williams, Flavors and Cunningham won't be here next year, and Pena is already gone, so, the fact that that class was Top 25 doesn't mean that its adding a whole lot of depth to long term of the program.

Those guys are hired guns, not guys to build depth in your program.

Of this years class that will be here next year, Walker and MAM are really the only 2 making much of an impact.

Right now, the young depth is pretty much relegated to Anderson, Walker, Boone and MAM and 1 of those guys is "didn't bring it" against Kansas.

Who knows what will happen with guys like Harris and D.Williams etc coming off of injury.

My problem is retention....
Of this year's class, 4 of them wont be here next year.

Add that to losing last year's best recruit and thats an entire starting 5 that wont be here next year.

Then...if Harris and D. Williams don't fully recover from their injuries, and if Keyland Boone doesn't figure College Basketball out, that's 8 guys out of the last 2 classes.

Then add a Wild Card like K. Boone not "bringing it" consistently, that's a very real potential of 9 guys from the last 2 classes not providing depth at all for the program.

Then... add Anei, a guy who was a starter, you get to 10 in the last 3 years.

Thats 2 entire starting lineups.

Thats how you end up being young every year.

If something happens to Ice next year we're not going to be very good, and he has nothing to do with the last 2 top 25 classes.
 
Last edited:
Dec 17, 2011
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#13
The problem with that though is that Marcus Watson was the highest recruit in last years class and isn't here and Cade Cunningham will only be here 1 year.

So.....of the 2 headliners from the last 2 classes, OSU is going to get a total of 1 year combined.

Beyond that, Avery Anderson has been good for us this year, but other than him, Kalib Boone is the only other contributor from last years class and he is very inconsistent.

That class isn't adding either depth or star power right now.

Williams, Flavors and Cunningham won't be here next year, and Pena is already gone, so, the fact that that class was Top 25 doesn't mean that its adding a whole lot of depth to long term of the program.

Those guys are hired guns, not guys to build depth in your program.

Of this years class that will be here next year, Walker and MAM are really the only 2 making much of an impact.

Right now, the young depth is pretty much relegated to Anderson, Walker, Boone and MAM and 1 of those guys is "doesn't bring it" against Kansas.

Who knows what will happen with guys like Harris and D.Williams etc coming off of injury.

My problem is retention....
Of this year's class, 4 of them wont be here next year.

Add that to losing last year's best recruit and thats an entire starting 5 that wont be here next year.

Then...if Harris and D. Williams don't fully recover from their injuries, and if Keyland Boone doesn't figure College Basketball out, that's 8 guys out of the last 2 classes.

Then add a Wild Card like K. Boone not "bringing it" consistently, that's a very real potential of 9 guys from the last 2 classes not providing depth at all for the program.

Then... add Anei, a guy who was a starter, you that to get to 10 in the last 3 years.

Thats 2 entire starting lineups.

Thats how you end up being young every year.

If something happens to Ice next year we're not going to be next year and he has nothing to do with the last 2 top 25 classes.
Williams and Flavors could come back no? With the extra year given
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#14
Williams and Flavors could come back no? With the extra year given
Yeah.... you're correct, they could if they so choose.

Thats not because of recruiting strategy thats produced 2 top 25 classes in a row thats adding depth though.

Its because the NCAA gave them an extra year due to a once in a lifetime pandemic.
 

TrevB11

Wrangler
Dec 16, 2019
89
35
68
32
Stillwater
#15
At best, we are an average Big 12 team. It is looking more likely we will end up a below average team. And we have what everyone says is the top pick in the upcoming draft.

Is Cade not as good as advertised?
Is the rest of our talent not Big 12 caliber?
Is our coaching not Big 12 caliber?

We will see how we finish, but. What good does it do to have a one and done, top draft pick, and not make the tournament?
From what i have seen so far with Cade is that his main quality that will transition quite well at the next level is his vision and being a facilitator. With that being said there have been a good number of passes to teammates where they either missed a wide open shot or mishandled the pass from Cade, at the next level those are gonna be converted at a higher clip, therefore having a much bigger impact on the overall game. One huge thing Cade needs to work on is dribbling into the lane that is usually clogged by multiple defenders, but without good 3 point shooters on the team that will continue to be the case, so it is hard to really judge Cade at this point.
 
Nov 27, 2007
2,685
1,266
1,743
35
Tulsa
#16
The problem with that though is that Marcus Watson was the highest recruit in last years class and isn't here and Cade Cunningham will only be here 1 year.

So.....of the 2 headliners from the last 2 classes, OSU is going to get a total of 1 year combined.

Beyond that, Avery Anderson has been good for us this year, but other than him, Kalib Boone is the only other contributor from last years class and he is very inconsistent.

That class isn't adding either depth or star power right now.

Williams, Flavors and Cunningham won't be here next year, and Pena is already gone, so, the fact that that class was Top 25 doesn't mean that its adding a whole lot of depth to long term of the program.

Those guys are hired guns, not guys to build depth in your program.

Of this years class that will be here next year, Walker and MAM are really the only 2 making much of an impact.

Right now, the young depth is pretty much relegated to Anderson, Walker, Boone and MAM and 1 of those guys is "didn't bring it" against Kansas.

Who knows what will happen with guys like Harris and D.Williams etc coming off of injury.

My problem is retention....
Of this year's class, 4 of them wont be here next year.

Add that to losing last year's best recruit and thats an entire starting 5 that wont be here next year.

Then...if Harris and D. Williams don't fully recover from their injuries, and if Keyland Boone doesn't figure College Basketball out, that's 8 guys out of the last 2 classes.

Then add a Wild Card like K. Boone not "bringing it" consistently, that's a very real potential of 9 guys from the last 2 classes not providing depth at all for the program.

Then... add Anei, a guy who was a starter, you get to 10 in the last 3 years.

Thats 2 entire starting lineups.

Thats how you end up being young every year.

If something happens to Ice next year we're not going to be very good, and he has nothing to do with the last 2 top 25 classes.
Two things are obvious to me:

You have no idea what depth is.

You will blatantly ignore facts to support a bias.

Have fun being you...
 
Apr 9, 2020
1
1
3
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Houston
#17
Fun fact. Boynton had back to back National Top 25 classes. That has not been done at this school in at least 20 years. The last top 25 class prior to Boynton was 2009.

The way you build a team of dudes getting consistently good recruiting classes. When you’re able to do that you build depth. Depth is what separates the haves from the have-nots. He is building that depth.
I've been wondering why we still consider the previous recruiting class as top 25 when it's top player didn't play a single game for us. Definitely wasn't a top 25 class without Marcus Watson.
 

TrevB11

Wrangler
Dec 16, 2019
89
35
68
32
Stillwater
#18
I've been wondering why we still consider the previous recruiting class as top 25 when it's top player didn't play a single game for us. Definitely wasn't a top 25 class without Marcus Watson.
What exactly happened to Watson here? I can't remember off the top of my head, was it team violations? or grades?
 
Nov 14, 2010
4,611
2,110
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#20
I've been wondering why we still consider the previous recruiting class as top 25 when it's top player didn't play a single game for us. Definitely wasn't a top 25 class without Marcus Watson.
What would this years class have been ranked without Cunningham, Pena, Williams and Flavors?

Because....unlesss Flavors and Williams decide to use the extra year due to Covid, those players won't be in our program next year.