Mike Boynton Extension

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OkstateKerr

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Jan 13, 2005
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#61
But 5th place finishes with the #1 pick makes people happy on this board.
Dude you need to let that go. Should have been a 3 way tie for third. Texas and WVU got to only play Baylor once and finished half a game ahead of us. We made the conference championship game.
 

OSU79

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#62
But 5th place finishes with the #1 pick makes people happy on this board.
The #1 pick was still playing against high school kids last season. He was playing against seasoned D1 vets this year. If you didn’t expect brilliance AND struggles for him this year you're not smart. The NBA draft is based about 80% on potential and 20% on what you've accomplished in college basketball (and 10% hustle, of course). I look at the weaknesses exhibited by our freshmen and sophomores and how far they came during the the season, and yes, I'm happy with our finish. We won enough games to finish 3rd after being projected 8th, and some teams didn’t play a full conference schedule. So, a middle-of-the-road conference finish earned our coach a middle-of-the-road conference salary. Given all the other positives HCMB brings to the table I'd say his new contract is a bargain.

Furthermore, if we were allowed to place wagers here I'd bet you as much as you wanted that coach will have another extension and raise before this contract expires - and once again it will be a matter of what school is signing the checks. I hope it's OSU.
 
May 4, 2011
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#63
The #1 pick was still playing against high school kids last season. He was playing against seasoned D1 vets this year. If you didn’t expect brilliance AND struggles for him this year you're not smart. The NBA draft is based about 80% on potential and 20% on what you've accomplished in college basketball (and 10% hustle, of course). I look at the weaknesses exhibited by our freshmen and sophomores and how far they came during the the season, and yes, I'm happy with our finish. We won enough games to finish 3rd after being projected 8th, and some teams didn’t play a full conference schedule. So, a middle-of-the-road conference finish earned our coach a middle-of-the-road conference salary. Given all the other positives HCMB brings to the table I'd say his new contract is a bargain.

Furthermore, if we were allowed to place wagers here I'd bet you as much as you wanted that coach will have another extension and raise before this contract expires - and once again it will be a matter of what school is signing the checks. I hope it's OSU.
If we're being honest, he didn't get middle of the road big 12 money. If Texas and OU pay their new coaches the same as their previous coaches (a safe bet for Texas), he'll be 8th in salary. He's not far from the clump of coaches that are middle of the pack, but still, 8th of 10. He's finished 6th, 9th, 7th, and 5th*. Even just taking that average (6.75), he's outperformed where his new salary ranks.
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#64
The coach gets a guaranteed amount of money

The school knows the exact figure they need to reach, the guarantee, to have the funds to meet that guarantee which puts them in a position of leverage.

It puts the school in a position of leverage because, instead of scrambling around and trying to raise money for a buyout, you have a set guarateed figure that you save/fundraiser for and have available.

This puts the school in a position where they are able to get rid of a Coach at any time.

Meanwhlie, the Coach and school get to put a long term tag on that contract which helps in recruiting.

If the school pays more than the guarantee it's because of success.

If you continue to hire good coaches, you'll never need to access that guarantee fund and it accumulates.

It's a win/win for everyone.
Scenario:
- base salary $3mm/yr, 7 yrs
- escalator: $250k/yr beginning the year after +90% ticket sales
- incentives: $100k for B12 regular season championship, $100k for B12 tourney championship, $50k for NCAA tourney, $100k for final four, $250k for NC.
- buyout: 50% of remaining base

Regent: Mr. Holder, how much are we budgeting Mr. Boynton’s compensation in the coming years given the incentive laden nature of the contract?

Holder: Since his compensation includes escalators and incentives that are tied to increases in revenues, budgeting compensation then becomes dependent on budgeting revenues. My suggestion is we budget revenues and compensation consistent with not achieving the benchmarks included in the escalations and incentives. To the extent we do achieve such benchmarks, we will be collecting non-budgeted revenues that will exceed non-budgeted expenses. Thus our annual budget for compensation should be $3mm until such time as his base escalates.

Regent: I see. So I assume we will not budget a buy-out?

Holder: Correct. We don’t budget failure. However, as with any contract we should recognize a potential contingent fee in the event his contract is terminated before it expires. And as is the case with most contracts, the buy-out or contingent amount changes with each new contract year.

Regent: I see. So what we really have to keep in mind is the amount of a potential buy-out each year since his entire compensation is accounted for within the budget. Correct?

Holder: Yes, that is correct.

Regent: Just so we know how to think about a potential buy-out, what, in your mind is our maximum exposure outside the budget?

Holder: I view it as highly unlikely under any reasonable scenario that we would ever consider terminating the contract with more than 5 years remaining. Thus our maximum exposure is 50% of $3mm/yr for 5 years or a total of $7.5mm. Clearly we will re-visit this issue next year and each year thereafter.

Regent: Understood. Thank you. Next item.



In this scenario, how does the concept of guaranteed salary ever arise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Jul 9, 2011
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#66
But 5th place finishes with the #1 pick makes people happy on this board.
I think that's a little misleading.

You failed to mention a few things: preseason we were picked 6th or 7th in the Big 12 even with that number one pick freshman and a lot of other young players. UT and WVU both played one less conference game due to COVID; UT vs Kansas and WVU at Baylor - both of which could easily have been loses, almost sure loss for WVU at Baylor. Had the full schedule been played we would have finished probably tied for 4th or possibly tied for 3rd in a very strong league. We made tremendous progress during the year and beat Baylor in the Big 12 semi-finals. UT again gets a break and doesn't have to play a round of the Big 12 tourney or I think we would have beat them to be champions. We got to the NCAA and won the first round with a young team.

All of that DOES make me happy.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#67
Here's a question....where will be in the Big 12 preseason polls for next season? I know a lot depends on the transfer portal and who all leaves or goes pro as well. But are we picked in the in top half next year?
 

CPTNQUIRK

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#70
Super happy for HCMB I’m a huge fan, but 7 years is still too long and could hamstring the program if he doesn’t work out. I would have gone with 5 years.
In 2018 Boynton got a 6 year extension after only one year here. How is a one year longer extinction after 4 years and showing that he can recruit and have success out of line?
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#71
State of OSU athletics. You knew people were going to whine if we extended Coach. Same people would be whining if we had let him walk.


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It's not the same people but it was interesting to see. Middle of the year, people were barking to get rid of Boynton. End of the year run, different group was panicking that he would be off to South Carolina or a Blue Blood. I think it's the message board way.

The other group are the people down the middle, and they get ridiculed by both the two separate groups mentioned above.
 

OkstateKerr

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#72
Here's a question....where will be in the Big 12 preseason polls for next season? I know a lot depends on the transfer portal and who all leaves or goes pro as well. But are we picked in the in top half next year?
I think it depends on who decides to opt in for the COVID year. Most of the team's are pretty old. Baylor has a lot of old guards that are probably going to test the water. They are sure to fall back a little. WVU has already lost 2 or 3 players. Texas has lost players and their coach. OU lost their coach. TCU will probably be a trendy dark horse team but I would figure we are going to be picked somewhere in the 4-6 range with our finish. Maybe higher depended on who we pick up.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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#73
Scenario:
- base salary $3mm/yr, 7 yrs
- escalator: $250k/yr beginning the year after +90% ticket sales
- incentives: $100k for B12 regular season championship, $100k for B12 tourney championship, $50k for NCAA tourney, $100k for final four, $250k for NC.
- buyout: 50% of remaining base

Regent: Mr. Holder, how much are we budgeting Mr. Boynton’s compensation in the coming years given the incentive laden nature of the contract?

Holder: Since his compensation includes escalators and incentives that are tied to increases in revenues, budgeting compensation then becomes dependent on budgeting revenues. My suggestion is we budget revenues and compensation consistent with not achieving the benchmarks included in the escalations and incentives. To the extent we do achieve such benchmarks, we will be collecting non-budgeted revenues that will exceed non-budgeted expenses. Thus our annual budget for compensation should be $3mm until such time as his base escalates.

Regent: I see. So I assume we will not budget a buy-out?

Holder: Correct. We don’t budget failure. However, as with any contract we should recognize a potential contingent fee in the event his contract is terminated before it expires. And as is the case with most contracts, the buy-out or contingent amount changes with each new contract year.

Regent: I see. So what we really have to keep in mind is the amount of a potential buy-out each year since his entire compensation is accounted for within the budget. Correct?

Holder: Yes, that is correct.

Regent: Just so we know how to think about a potential buy-out, what, in your mind is our maximum exposure outside the budget?

Holder: I view it as highly unlikely under any reasonable scenario that we would ever consider terminating the contract with more than 5 years remaining. Thus our maximum exposure is 50% of $3mm/yr for 5 years or a total of $7.5mm. Clearly we will re-visit this issue next year and each year thereafter.

Regent: Understood. Thank you. Next item.



In this scenario, how does the concept of guaranteed salary ever arise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why do you think the escalator would be $250K? In fact, the contract is worth $21M over 7 years. The first year may bey less than $3M with a smaller escalator each year.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#74
I think it depends on who decides to opt in for the COVID year. Most of the team's are pretty old. Baylor has a lot of old guards that are probably going to test the water. They are sure to fall back a little. WVU has already lost 2 or 3 players. Texas has lost players and their coach. OU lost their coach. TCU will probably be a trendy dark horse team but I would figure we are going to be picked somewhere in the 4-6 range with our finish. Maybe higher depended on who we pick up.
Baylor's guards are very interesting. They are older. Both Mitchell and Butler thought about the pros last year. They are small for NBA guards is their biggest issue. Really good college guards. Makes you wonder what they would decide to do. I think we and return the most players with heavy minutes. Texas should be way down. The guards graduate and those long athletic guys will all be going to the NBA. Tech returning a lot their guys and they will add a transfer or two surely. Need a couple months to see what happens with the portal to really know what might happen.
 

ScooberJake

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#75
For the Boynton detractors, how are you guys feeling about this? I know with the success down the stretch, many got quiet. But playing well last 10 games of the year can't change your mind about Boynton. Certainly, he will have to continue to earn your trust as a coach. But did he do enough to earn the extension for the folks who aren't quite on board yet?
Not sure I'd call myself a Boynton detractor, more a Holder detractor for giving a completely unproven coach the reigns to our program.

At this point you either have to give Boynton a new contract or you have to look for a new coach. I'd rather keep Boynton, given the current players and momentum and potential of sanctions. The contract seems reasonable to me, assuming Holder learned his lesson on buyouts.

I like the passion, the defense, and the improvement I see in some players (Kalib and AA, specifically, maybe Keylan too). Not happy with the offense, though it has looked good at times, worried how it will run without Cade next year. In-game decisions need a lot of work. Our teams seem to peak at the right time, but I really want to see us play better next year early in the year and early in games. Won't have Cade to bail us out late and our experience should allow us to control more games next year, ought to be play some complete games.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#76
Scenario:
- base salary $3mm/yr, 7 yrs
- escalator: $250k/yr beginning the year after +90% ticket sales
- incentives: $100k for B12 regular season championship, $100k for B12 tourney championship, $50k for NCAA tourney, $100k for final four, $250k for NC.
- buyout: 50% of remaining base

Regent: Mr. Holder, how much are we budgeting Mr. Boynton’s compensation in the coming years given the incentive laden nature of the contract?

Holder: Since his compensation includes escalators and incentives that are tied to increases in revenues, budgeting compensation then becomes dependent on budgeting revenues. My suggestion is we budget revenues and compensation consistent with not achieving the benchmarks included in the escalations and incentives. To the extent we do achieve such benchmarks, we will be collecting non-budgeted revenues that will exceed non-budgeted expenses. Thus our annual budget for compensation should be $3mm until such time as his base escalates.

Regent: I see. So I assume we will not budget a buy-out?

Holder: Correct. We don’t budget failure. However, as with any contract we should recognize a potential contingent fee in the event his contract is terminated before it expires. And as is the case with most contracts, the buy-out or contingent amount changes with each new contract year.

Regent: I see. So what we really have to keep in mind is the amount of a potential buy-out each year since his entire compensation is accounted for within the budget. Correct?

Holder: Yes, that is correct.

Regent: Just so we know how to think about a potential buy-out, what, in your mind is our maximum exposure outside the budget?

Holder: I view it as highly unlikely under any reasonable scenario that we would ever consider terminating the contract with more than 5 years remaining. Thus our maximum exposure is 50% of $3mm/yr for 5 years or a total of $7.5mm. Clearly we will re-visit this issue next year and each year thereafter.

Regent: Understood. Thank you. Next item.



In this scenario, how does the concept of guaranteed salary ever arise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why do you think the escalator would be $250K? In fact, the contract is worth $21M over 7 years. The first year may bey less than $3M with a smaller escalator each year.
I’m not assuming anything. That was just a made up scenario to point out the concept of “guarantees” is probably not definable and thus not a meaningful discussion point.

If a person thinks the base, escalations and incentives are within the “market” and thus fair, it’s only the buyout that could come back to bite us. Maybe the buyout is impacted by the contract term, maybe it isn’t. Who knows at this point. But as fans/donors, it seems to me the terms of the buyout combined with the term of the contract are the keys in determining whether the entire deal is good, bad or indifferent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Sep 23, 2010
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#77
Not sure I'd call myself a Boynton detractor, more a Holder detractor for giving a completely unproven coach the reigns to our program.

At this point you either have to give Boynton a new contract or you have to look for a new coach. I'd rather keep Boynton, given the current players and momentum and potential of sanctions. The contract seems reasonable to me, assuming Holder learned his lesson on buyouts.

I like the passion, the defense, and the improvement I see in some players (Kalib and AA, specifically, maybe Keylan too). Not happy with the offense, though it has looked good at times, worried how it will run without Cade next year. In-game decisions need a lot of work. Our teams seem to peak at the right time, but I really want to see us play better next year early in the year and early in games. Won't have Cade to bail us out late and our experience should allow us to control more games next year, ought to be play some complete games.
I think you are right. Boynton has knocked the ball out of the park from an ambassador of university standpoint. His on court success has been marginal but definitely feels like it's going the right direction. I like your conclusion that it's better to extend him instead of looking to start all over again with a new coach. I worry about the sanctions and the setbacks it causes.
 

pokefan05

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#78
Aww...show me where I hurt you with the truth.
Dude, just because we did in fact finish 5th in the conference, doesn't mean that your opinion isn't stupid. Why are you comparing how we finished this year to the glory years of Sutton, as you obviously are if you aren't happy with 5th, which is about where Sutton finished on average in the Big 12 years. Why are you holding MB to a higher standard than a hall of famer, four years into his career? There were 7 coaches in the league who had been to a final four, until a few days ago. The fact that MB has outperformed ANY of them in his FIRST 4 YEARS of coaching is an accomplishment in itself. We beat 9 ranked teams, including several top 10 wins. He has consistently beaten Chris Beard, who to freaking Texas Tech to the brink of a national championship. Cade didn't play in Morgantown, so what happened there? The foundation is in place now to be very successful going forward, pending this ncaa BS. Still time to get on board now, but please don't bother when we are deep in the tournament in the next year or two.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#79
I think you are right. Boynton has knocked the ball out of the park from an ambassador of university standpoint. His on court success has been marginal but definitely feels like it's going the right direction. I like your conclusion that it's better to extend him instead of looking to start all over again with a new coach. I worry about the sanctions and the setbacks it causes.
From a financial security perspective the end of the yr run did more for Boynton than usual. Sure he had leverage w other teams calling a hot young coach but that run, combined w unresolved NCAA issues combined w the free covid yr combined w relaxed transfer rules combined w OSU basketball fan’s wetted appetite put Boynton in the best position he could have.

If OSU didn’t extend he conceivably bolts. With the looming sanctions, which players stay? OSU basketball would be bottom of league next year for sure and w loss of scholarships and wins for years to come. Who would step into that dumpster fire? Ticket sales plummet further coming out of CoVid and it could be a decade before you begin to dig out.

OSU had no choice but to continue the ride. As close as we were to 3rd this yr we were as close to 7th (4 OT wins). Let’s hope players and coaches improve ahead of next season and we get a top 1/2 finish. Recruit well again and push forward from there.

I hope to be back in GIA next yr excited when we win and pissed when bone head plays cost us. Here’s to more excitement than expletives
 
Nov 2, 2004
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#80
Dude, just because we did in fact finish 5th in the conference, doesn't mean that your opinion isn't stupid. Why are you comparing how we finished this year to the glory years of Sutton, as you obviously are if you aren't happy with 5th, which is about where Sutton finished on average in the Big 12 years. Why are you holding MB to a higher standard than a hall of famer, four years into his career? There were 7 coaches in the league who had been to a final four, until a few days ago. The fact that MB has outperformed ANY of them in his FIRST 4 YEARS of coaching is an accomplishment in itself. We beat 9 ranked teams, including several top 10 wins. He has consistently beaten Chris Beard, who to freaking Texas Tech to the brink of a national championship. Cade didn't play in Morgantown, so what happened there? The foundation is in place now to be very successful going forward, pending this ncaa BS. Still time to get on board now, but please don't bother when we are deep in the tournament in the next year or two.
We shall see...