"Looting "is no longer allowed in California

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Feb 11, 2007
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#1
"According to the local ABC affiliate for the Bay Area, the California Penal Code didn't allow for the use of the term "looting" to describe the thefts involving large groups of people because, it claimed, the definition didn't match the act as defined by law. It also cited two individuals it referred to as "experts," who described the term as being reminiscent of Black people and people of color being associated with the act of looting."
 

snuffy

Calf fries are the original sack lunch.
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#3
"According to the local ABC affiliate for the Bay Area, the California Penal Code didn't allow for the use of the term "looting" to describe the thefts involving large groups of people because, it claimed, the definition didn't match the act as defined by law. It also cited two individuals it referred to as "experts," who described the term as being reminiscent of Black people and people of color being associated with the act of looting."
Is this any different than when the Rittenhouse judge said the men shot could not be referred to as victims until after a verdict was reached over the legality of their deaths?
 

steross

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#6
No this is about the California law that redefines the meaning and common usage of the word "looting".
Did you even read the article?

The controversy was the use of the word to describe smash and grab thefts that didn't occur during a state of emergency or other time when emergency services/law enforcement were overwhelmed as is typical with looting.

It doesn't look to me like an attempt to redefine the word. It looks like an attempt to limit the word to its original usage and not every massive, coordinated theft. Is that the correct thing to do? Who knows. Is it something worthy of a whine on an OSU message board? No.

Certainly no more than the state of Wisconsin attempting to ban teachers from using words like "equity" or "multicultural." Gee, I wonder if "melting pot" is OK? Talk about hurt feelings. Are you more concerned about the grammatical terms used in the California penal code or the ability of teachers to use words in our language without breaking anti-speech laws?
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...ity-wisconsin-gop-proposes-banning-words-from
 

CowboyJD

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#7
No this is about the California law that redefines the meaning and common usage of the word "looting".
No it doesn't "redefine" anything. The definition of looting has been in the California Penal Code since 1990. And it's a pretty common statutory definition.

"Looting" is a separate and additional crime that can be charged IN ADDITION to whatever theft or burglary that is committed because the theft or burglary occurred during a defined by statute event....in California its a "state emergency", "local emergency" or "evacuation order".

If there is no state emergency, local emergency, or evacuation order....there is no "looting". There IS still the underlying crime of theft or burglary, and it can be prosecuted as such.
________________________________________________
West's Ann.Cal.Penal Code § 463
§ 463. Looting during emergency or evacuation; punishment; probation; definitions; consensual entry
(a) Every person who violates Section 459, punishable as a second-degree burglary pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 461, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency,” or under an “evacuation order,” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or manmade disaster shall be guilty of the crime of looting, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
Any person convicted under this subdivision who is eligible for probation and who is granted probation shall, as a condition thereof, be confined in a county jail for at least 180 days, except that the court may, in the case where the interest of justice would best be served, reduce or eliminate that mandatory jail sentence, if the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interest of justice would best be served by that disposition. In addition to whatever custody is ordered, the court, in its discretion, may require any person granted probation following conviction under this subdivision to serve up to 240 hours of community service in any program deemed appropriate by the court, including any program created to rebuild the community.
For purposes of this subdivision, the fact that the structure entered has been damaged by the earthquake, fire, flood, or other natural or manmade disaster shall not, in and of itself, preclude conviction.
(b) Every person who commits the crime of grand theft, as defined in Section 487 or subdivision (a) of Section 487a, except grand theft of a firearm, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency,” or under an “evacuation order,” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or unnatural disaster shall be guilty of the crime of looting, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. Every person who commits the crime of grand theft of a firearm, as defined in Section 487, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or unnatural disaster shall be guilty of the crime of looting, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison, as set forth in subdivision (a) of Section 489. Any person convicted under this subdivision who is eligible for probation and who is granted probation shall, as a condition thereof, be confined in a county jail for at least 180 days, except that the court may, in the case where the interest of justice would best be served, reduce or eliminate that mandatory jail sentence, if the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interest of justice would best be served by that disposition. In addition to whatever custody is ordered, the court, in its discretion, may require any person granted probation following conviction under this subdivision to serve up to 160 hours of community service in any program deemed appropriate by the court, including any program created to rebuild the community.
(c) Every person who commits the crime of petty theft, as defined in Section 488, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency,” or under an “evacuation order,” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or manmade disaster shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for six months. Any person convicted under this subdivision who is eligible for probation and who is granted probation shall, as a condition thereof, be confined in a county jail for at least 90 days, except that the court may, in the case where the interest of justice would best be served, reduce or eliminate that mandatory minimum jail sentence, if the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interest of justice would best be served by that disposition. In addition to whatever custody is ordered, the court, in its discretion, may require any person granted probation following conviction under this subdivision to serve up to 80 hours of community service in any program deemed appropriate by the court, including any program created to rebuild the community.
(d)(1) For purposes of this section, “state of emergency” means conditions that, by reason of their magnitude, are, or are likely to be, beyond the control of the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of any single county, city and county, or city and require the combined forces of a mutual aid region or regions to combat.
(2) For purposes of this section, “local emergency” means conditions that, by reason of their magnitude, are, or are likely to be, beyond the control of the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of any single county, city and county, or city and require the combined forces of a mutual aid region or regions to combat.
(3) For purposes of this section, a “state of emergency” shall exist from the time of the proclamation of the condition of the emergency until terminated pursuant to Section 8629 of the Government Code. For purposes of this section only, a “local emergency” shall exist from the time of the proclamation of the condition of the emergency by the local governing body until terminated pursuant to Section 8630 of the Government Code.
(4) For purposes of this section, “evacuation order” means an order from the Governor, or a county sheriff, chief of police, or fire marshal, under which persons subject to the order are required to relocate outside of the geographic area covered by the order due to an imminent danger resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or manmade disaster.

(5) Consensual entry into a commercial structure with the intent to commit a violation of Section 470, 476, 476a, 484f, or 484g shall not be charged as a violation under this section.
Credits
(Added by Stats.1990, c. 1126 (A.B.3894), § 1. Amended by Stats.1992, c. 1339 (S.B.2066), § 1, eff. Sept. 30, 1992; Stats.1994, c. 290 (A.B.2965), § 1; Stats.2009-2010, 3rd Ex.Sess., c. 28 (S.B.18), § 12, eff. Jan. 25, 2010; Stats.2011, c. 15 (A.B.109), § 356, eff. April 4, 2011, operative Oct. 1, 2011; Stats.2013, c. 618 (A.B.924), § 6; Stats.2018, c. 132 (A.B.3078), § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 2019.)
____________________________________

What this is REALLY about is:

1. A news agency in California deciding to refer to alleged crimes about which they are reporting pursuant to their statutory/legal definitions rather than the preferred usage of you and yours;
2. California living rent free in the heads of Trumpies like you, and;
3. You not knowing what you're talking about and not caring to know in favor of just disclosing your confirmation bias.
 
Last edited:

Boomer.....

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Feb 15, 2007
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#8
It's a good thing too! Now they can't claim these large groups are looting.

Bay Area Crime Spree: Robberies In San Francisco, Hayward, Oakland & More

This weekend was full of crime in the Bay Area!

On Friday, several businesses in Union Square and Downtown San Francisco were robbed by a large group of people, including Louis Vuitton. People were seen running through the streets with arms full of merchandise. Police were also called to several other locations due to robbery.

A Nordstrom in Walnut Creek was also robbed this past weekend after 25 cars blocked the street and raided the store before speeding off. A group of 30+ thieves wielding hammers were also seen at Southland Mall in Hayward stealing from several businesses inside.

Another group of people hit Wellspring Pharmacy in Oakland. Aside from medicine being stolen, the business is also suffering from damaged property.

Lulelemon located the Santana Row in San Jose also suffered from a major smash-and-grab heist.

A jewelry store in Oakland shared video of a group of people attempting to break in, trying their hardest to pry open the metal gate. However, the thieves were unsuccessful.
 

wrenhal

Federal Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#9
No this is about the California law that redefines the meaning and common usage of the word "looting".
No it doesn't "redefine" anything. The definition of looting has been in the California Penal Code since 1990. And it's a pretty common statutory definition.

"Looting" is a separate and additional crime that can be charged IN ADDITION to whatever theft or burglary that is committed because the theft or burglary occurred during a defined by statute event....in California its a "state emergency", "local emergency" or "evacuation order".

If there is no state emergency, local emergency, or evacuation order....there is no "looting". There IS still the underlying crime of theft or burglary, and it can be prosecuted as such.
________________________________________________
West's Ann.Cal.Penal Code § 463
§ 463. Looting during emergency or evacuation; punishment; probation; definitions; consensual entry
(a) Every person who violates Section 459, punishable as a second-degree burglary pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 461, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency,” or under an “evacuation order,” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or manmade disaster shall be guilty of the crime of looting, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
Any person convicted under this subdivision who is eligible for probation and who is granted probation shall, as a condition thereof, be confined in a county jail for at least 180 days, except that the court may, in the case where the interest of justice would best be served, reduce or eliminate that mandatory jail sentence, if the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interest of justice would best be served by that disposition. In addition to whatever custody is ordered, the court, in its discretion, may require any person granted probation following conviction under this subdivision to serve up to 240 hours of community service in any program deemed appropriate by the court, including any program created to rebuild the community.
For purposes of this subdivision, the fact that the structure entered has been damaged by the earthquake, fire, flood, or other natural or manmade disaster shall not, in and of itself, preclude conviction.
(b) Every person who commits the crime of grand theft, as defined in Section 487 or subdivision (a) of Section 487a, except grand theft of a firearm, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency,” or under an “evacuation order,” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or unnatural disaster shall be guilty of the crime of looting, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. Every person who commits the crime of grand theft of a firearm, as defined in Section 487, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or unnatural disaster shall be guilty of the crime of looting, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison, as set forth in subdivision (a) of Section 489. Any person convicted under this subdivision who is eligible for probation and who is granted probation shall, as a condition thereof, be confined in a county jail for at least 180 days, except that the court may, in the case where the interest of justice would best be served, reduce or eliminate that mandatory jail sentence, if the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interest of justice would best be served by that disposition. In addition to whatever custody is ordered, the court, in its discretion, may require any person granted probation following conviction under this subdivision to serve up to 160 hours of community service in any program deemed appropriate by the court, including any program created to rebuild the community.
(c) Every person who commits the crime of petty theft, as defined in Section 488, during and within an affected county in a “state of emergency” or a “local emergency,” or under an “evacuation order,” resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or manmade disaster shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for six months. Any person convicted under this subdivision who is eligible for probation and who is granted probation shall, as a condition thereof, be confined in a county jail for at least 90 days, except that the court may, in the case where the interest of justice would best be served, reduce or eliminate that mandatory minimum jail sentence, if the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interest of justice would best be served by that disposition. In addition to whatever custody is ordered, the court, in its discretion, may require any person granted probation following conviction under this subdivision to serve up to 80 hours of community service in any program deemed appropriate by the court, including any program created to rebuild the community.
(d)(1) For purposes of this section, “state of emergency” means conditions that, by reason of their magnitude, are, or are likely to be, beyond the control of the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of any single county, city and county, or city and require the combined forces of a mutual aid region or regions to combat.
(2) For purposes of this section, “local emergency” means conditions that, by reason of their magnitude, are, or are likely to be, beyond the control of the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of any single county, city and county, or city and require the combined forces of a mutual aid region or regions to combat.
(3) For purposes of this section, a “state of emergency” shall exist from the time of the proclamation of the condition of the emergency until terminated pursuant to Section 8629 of the Government Code. For purposes of this section only, a “local emergency” shall exist from the time of the proclamation of the condition of the emergency by the local governing body until terminated pursuant to Section 8630 of the Government Code.
(4) For purposes of this section, “evacuation order” means an order from the Governor, or a county sheriff, chief of police, or fire marshal, under which persons subject to the order are required to relocate outside of the geographic area covered by the order due to an imminent danger resulting from an earthquake, fire, flood, riot, or other natural or manmade disaster.

(5) Consensual entry into a commercial structure with the intent to commit a violation of Section 470, 476, 476a, 484f, or 484g shall not be charged as a violation under this section.
Credits
(Added by Stats.1990, c. 1126 (A.B.3894), § 1. Amended by Stats.1992, c. 1339 (S.B.2066), § 1, eff. Sept. 30, 1992; Stats.1994, c. 290 (A.B.2965), § 1; Stats.2009-2010, 3rd Ex.Sess., c. 28 (S.B.18), § 12, eff. Jan. 25, 2010; Stats.2011, c. 15 (A.B.109), § 356, eff. April 4, 2011, operative Oct. 1, 2011; Stats.2013, c. 618 (A.B.924), § 6; Stats.2018, c. 132 (A.B.3078), § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 2019.)
____________________________________

What this is REALLY about is:

1. A news agency in California deciding to refer to alleged crimes about which they are reporting pursuant to their statutory/legal definitions rather than the preferred usage of you and yours;
2. California living rent free in the heads of Trumpies like you, and;
3. You not knowing what you're talking about and not caring to know in favor of just disclosing your confirmation bias.
Actually, hasn't Newsom continued their COVID state of emergency in California?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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#10
It's a good thing too! Now they can't claim these large groups are looting.

Bay Area Crime Spree: Robberies In San Francisco, Hayward, Oakland & More

This weekend was full of crime in the Bay Area!

On Friday, several businesses in Union Square and Downtown San Francisco were robbed by a large group of people, including Louis Vuitton. People were seen running through the streets with arms full of merchandise. Police were also called to several other locations due to robbery.

A Nordstrom in Walnut Creek was also robbed this past weekend after 25 cars blocked the street and raided the store before speeding off. A group of 30+ thieves wielding hammers were also seen at Southland Mall in Hayward stealing from several businesses inside.

Another group of people hit Wellspring Pharmacy in Oakland. Aside from medicine being stolen, the business is also suffering from damaged property.

Lulelemon located the Santana Row in San Jose also suffered from a major smash-and-grab heist.

A jewelry store in Oakland shared video of a group of people attempting to break in, trying their hardest to pry open the metal gate. However, the thieves were unsuccessful.
I'm gonna blow your mind with some lawyer :poo: right now.;)

California Penal Code:

Robbery is the felonious taking of personal property in the possession of another, from his person or immediate presence, and against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear.

So, depending upon the exact facts....they very well may not....probably aren't....even be "robberies", but rather "burglaries". :woot::runaway::p

I'm posting this not to dismiss or minimize the heinous conduct evidenced in that report....scumbags all.

I'm not posting this to say one way of the other whether such news reports should should adhere to legal definitions in their reporting. I don't really care about that.

I'm posting it to reflect that the law often uses precise definitions to differentiate between various crimes that may not be in use by the non-lawyer.

It's one of the, I'm sure 1000s, of reasons non-lawyers are prone to dislike lawyers. It's like playing Monopoly with the only DHead that has actually read the rules on the bottom of the box and refuses to play with the "house rules" that have been effect for years.
 

OrangeFan69

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#14
No this is about the California law that redefines the meaning and common usage of the word "looting".
Cool. How long have you lived in, worked in or visited California?

Tell me all about California! I’m a pretty curious guy and you seem to be very intelligent.

I often seek information from experts. Also, since you’re full of great ideas; What ideas for improvement do you have?
 
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#16
I saw an article that said something about a mayor of one of the cities was going to either limit access or limit store hours to try and stop this. Found it kinda odd that they could that.
 
Feb 7, 2011
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#17
The more I reflect on the law the more I appreciate both well written laws and policies. I have grown to appreciate the judicial system. When I visit with people from other countries I find it difficult to understand their legal realities. We make effort towards justice. It is often messy but I am deeply grateful for the effort.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#18
I think mass shoplifting from a CVS is bad.

I’d like to see that same level of outrage at Fortune 500 companies that took PPP money and then laid off employees.
I am glad you think stealing is bad. Hope that wasn’t too tough of a decision.

If corporation illegally used COVID-funds, I agree they not only deserve outrage, but we must get them to pay it back. I submit, however, that the ire is best directed at government ineptitude. Many companies didn’t even have to ask the government to forgive the PPP loans, the government did it anyway. And the Build Back Better plan has even more incredibly wasteful spending that props up the revenues of large companies.
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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#19
I am glad you think stealing is bad. Hope that wasn’t too tough of a decision.

If corporation illegally used COVID-funds, I agree they not only deserve outrage, but we must get them to pay it back. I submit, however, that the ire is best directed at government ineptitude. Many companies didn’t even have to ask the government to forgive the PPP loans, the government did it anyway. And the Build Back Better plan has even more incredibly wasteful spending that props up the revenues of large companies.
I completely disagree that the ire is "best directed" at government ineptitude that doesn't catch wrongdoers.

It belongs firmly on the wrongdoers first and foremost.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#20
I completely disagree that the ire is "best directed" at government ineptitude that doesn't catch wrongdoers.

It belongs firmly on the wrongdoers first and foremost.
Then you are not understanding my post.
People and companies that illegally obtained funds should be punished and money recovered.
However the MUCH bigger issue was the government ineptitude distributing the money and then waiving payments.