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Keystone Pipeline

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cableok

cableok

Sheriff
#1
Mar 11, 2006
3,465
2,057
1,743
#1
I don’t know much about oil and energy and honestly hadn’t been paying a lot of attention in the past to the Keystone Pipeline. But recently have read quite a lot about it. I am trying to be open to some of Biden’s decisions that I don’t agree, but halting construction on the Keystone Pipeline appears to me to be a MONUMENTAL horrible decision. And just plain stupid.

the Pipeline:
1) Provides better energy independence for US and for Canada (this a a great thing for national security and the economy)
2) A pipeline is much safer than other forms of transportation (I understand that climate change advocates want oil and oil sand production to stop. But it is going to occur and pipeline transportation is better for the environment than other forms of transport. This should be pro-climate change)
3) Jobs: Yes, many are temporary, but this is NOT a time to be taking away jobs.
4) Canada relations: One of our biggest supporters just felt like they got kicked in the groin by us.
5) Completion: We already have a large portion of the pipeline completed - continuing it to the Gulf seems wise, IMO.

What am I missing? Biden isn’t stupid, so what good and logical reasons are there to cease completion of the pipeline?
 
P

Party of common sense

Cowboy
#2
Dec 18, 2019
276
76
78
41
Central Oklahoma
#2
cableok said:
I don’t know much about oil and energy and honestly hadn’t been paying a lot of attention in the past to the Keystone Pipeline. But recently have read quite a lot about it. I am trying to be open to some of Biden’s decisions that I don’t agree, but halting construction on the Keystone Pipeline appears to me to be a MONUMENTAL horrible decision. And just plain stupid.

the Pipeline:
1) Provides better energy independence for US and for Canada (this a a great thing for national security and the economy)
2) A pipeline is much safer than other forms of transportation (I understand that climate change advocates want oil and oil sand production to stop. But it is going to occur and pipeline transportation is better for the environment than other forms of transport. This should be pro-climate change)
3) Jobs: Yes, many are temporary, but this is NOT a time to be taking away jobs.
4) Canada relations: One of our biggest supporters just felt like they got kicked in the groin by us.
5) Completion: We already have a large portion of the pipeline completed - continuing it to the Gulf seems wise, IMO.

What am I missing? Biden isn’t stupid, so what good and logical reasons are there to cease completion of the pipeline?
Click to expand...
The oil has to be moved via train now. Warren Buffet owns BNSF railroad. Always follow the money.

What most people don’t realize is the impacts it will have on other industries. We saw this several years ago. Trains are tied up hauling oil because it pays better and we see a backup of grain not moving to the ports.
He will use the excuse of oil is dirty and this is to fight global warming. In reality it does nothing to stop drilling for oil. Only encourage it by increasing the price of crude.
 
OranGE-KK

OranGE-KK

Deputy
#3
Dec 11, 2011
1,071
1,070
743
37
#3
cableok said:
One of our biggest supporters just got kicked in the groin by us.
Click to expand...
That seems accurate
Party of common sense said:
The oil has to be moved via train now. Warren Buffet owns BNSF railroad. Always follow the money.

What most people don’t realize is the impacts it will have on other industries. We saw this several years ago. Trains are tied up hauling oil because it pays better and we see a backup of grain not moving to the ports.
He will use the excuse of oil is dirty and this is to fight global warming. In reality it does nothing to stop drilling for oil. Only encourage it by increasing the price of crude.
Click to expand...
For the same reason you describe about railroad oil transport vs grain transport; rail has a stranglehold on the transport of coal from the PRB in Wyoming to most of the coal-fired facilities West of the Mississippi. This will make rail transport more scarce for coal supply & drive up the cost of electricity production. It's an artificial way to backdoor forcing more coal-fired power plants to close due to "market conditions".
 
P

Party of common sense

Cowboy
#4
Dec 18, 2019
276
76
78
41
Central Oklahoma
#4
OranGE-KK said:
That seems accurate


For the same reason you describe about railroad oil transport vs grain transport; rail has a stranglehold on the transport of coal from the PRB in Wyoming to most of the coal-fired facilities West of the Mississippi. This will make rail transport more scarce for coal supply & drive up the cost of electricity production. It's an artificial way to backdoor forcing more coal-fired power plants to close due to "market conditions".
Click to expand...
I’ve never thought about that part of it. Learn something everyday.
 
OSUinTX

OSUinTX

Sheriff
#5
Aug 16, 2012
2,687
1,284
743
58
#5
cableok said:
I don’t know much about oil and energy and honestly hadn’t been paying a lot of attention in the past to the Keystone Pipeline. But recently have read quite a lot about it. I am trying to be open to some of Biden’s decisions that I don’t agree, but halting construction on the Keystone Pipeline appears to me to be a MONUMENTAL horrible decision. And just plain stupid.

the Pipeline:
1) Provides better energy independence for US and for Canada (this a a great thing for national security and the economy)
2) A pipeline is much safer than other forms of transportation (I understand that climate change advocates want oil and oil sand production to stop. But it is going to occur and pipeline transportation is better for the environment than other forms of transport. This should be pro-climate change)
3) Jobs: Yes, many are temporary, but this is NOT a time to be taking away jobs.
4) Canada relations: One of our biggest supporters just felt like they got kicked in the groin by us.
5) Completion: We already have a large portion of the pipeline completed - continuing it to the Gulf seems wise, IMO.

What am I missing? Biden isn’t stupid, so what good and logical reasons are there to cease completion of the pipeline?
Click to expand...
Some say so rail transport will have to be used and Buffet it a key player there.

Technically, it is not needed in regard to energy dependency, but will go a long way to improving our dependency. All of the nay-sayer environmental reports exaggerate the environmental impact, not due to construction issues, oil spill issues or anything else of substance, but they ESTIMATE significant increases in auto pollution under the premise oil will be so cheap we will drive like idiots.

I work with a guy in Toronto and based on his reports, Canadians are fuming mad.

The partial construction part brings up a little segue to something else I have read over the past few days. We all know Biden has ceased construction on the border wall. Purportedly, that is not enough and his administration is considering tearing it down. But gets better. Not tearing down the whole wall...just the portions constructed under Trump.

Unity, baby
 
Rixaroo

Rixaroo

Deputy
A/V Subscriber
#6
Jun 16, 2011
1,064
1,292
743
OKC
www.weekendwatchguide.com
#6
Oklahoma has 17 rigs running right now. For reference, we had almost 150 in the fall on '18. From an Oklahoma and Texas perspective, this is a good thing as it'll cost the Canadians more per BBL than with the KXL. Additionally, it seems as though Biden will shut down fed land leasing. NMex has about 35% fed land while Oklahoma has under 2%. This state needed a break and it just got it.
 
CowboyOrangeFan

CowboyOrangeFan

Mmmm, yeah.
A/V Subscriber
#7
Jun 9, 2006
5,155
3,521
1,743
Florida
#7
Just to be clear, Biden isn’t shutting down federal land leases. He is putting a moratorium on new land leases. That doesn’t change anything with the current leases that will keep the oil and gas flowing from federal land for years to come. All of which makes up about 10-20% of annual US production.
 
P

Party of common sense

Cowboy
#8
Dec 18, 2019
276
76
78
41
Central Oklahoma
#8
Rixaroo said:
Oklahoma has 17 rigs running right now. For reference, we had almost 150 in the fall on '18. From an Oklahoma and Texas perspective, this is a good thing as it'll cost the Canadians more per BBL than with the KXL. Additionally, it seems as though Biden will shut down fed land leasing. NMex has about 35% fed land while Oklahoma has under 2%. This state needed a break and it just got it.
Click to expand...
What does the price of a barrel of oil need to be to get the rig count back to those numbers?
 
OSUinTX

OSUinTX

Sheriff
#10
Aug 16, 2012
2,687
1,284
743
58
#10
Rixaroo said:
Oklahoma has 17 rigs running right now. For reference, we had almost 150 in the fall on '18. From an Oklahoma and Texas perspective, this is a good thing as it'll cost the Canadians more per BBL than with the KXL. Additionally, it seems as though Biden will shut down fed land leasing. NMex has about 35% fed land while Oklahoma has under 2%. This state needed a break and it just got it.
Click to expand...
For clarification, KXL would not increase Canadian production, it would just make it more cost effective to get here because they are already getting it here without the KXL.
 
StillwaterTownie

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
#14
Jun 18, 2010
17,218
1,881
1,743
Where else but Stillwater
#14
Party of common sense said:
It’s almost like a labor union is a cult. How can you be so stupid to vote and give money to a guy you know is going to put you on the unemployment line?
Click to expand...
But job robbing policies have been going on for many decades ever since your grandparents or great grandparents started complaining that there is too much stuff at the store stamped "Made In Japan" on it.
 
GumbyFromPokeyLand

GumbyFromPokeyLand

Deputy
#15
Sep 29, 2011
2,293
507
743
61
Breckenridge, CO
#15
OSUinTX said:
Rixaroo said:
Oklahoma has 17 rigs running right now. For reference, we had almost 150 in the fall on '18. From an Oklahoma and Texas perspective, this is a good thing as it'll cost the Canadians more per BBL than with the KXL. Additionally, it seems as though Biden will shut down fed land leasing. NMex has about 35% fed land while Oklahoma has under 2%. This state needed a break and it just got it.
Click to expand...
For clarification, KXL would not increase Canadian production, it would just make it more cost effective to get here because they are already getting it here without the KXL.
Click to expand...
Untrue.

The prospective shipping commitments on KXL and Gulf Coast refinery modifications would incentivize increased and continued development for Canadian Oil Sands projects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OSUinTX

OSUinTX

Sheriff
#17
Aug 16, 2012
2,687
1,284
743
58
#17
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
Untrue.

The prospective shipping commitments on KXL and Gulf Coast refinery modifications would incentivize increased and continued development for Canadian Oil Sands projects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The comment was made in reference to existing conditions. Absolutely it would facilitate expansion in the future but as it is, what is coming down the pipe now is taxing storage capacity, hence the non-stop tank construction in Cushing (and presumably other places)
 
GumbyFromPokeyLand

GumbyFromPokeyLand

Deputy
#18
Sep 29, 2011
2,293
507
743
61
Breckenridge, CO
#18
OSUinTX said:
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
Untrue.

The prospective shipping commitments on KXL and Gulf Coast refinery modifications would incentivize increased and continued development for Canadian Oil Sands projects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The comment was made in reference to existing conditions. Absolutely it would facilitate expansion in the future but as it is, what is coming down the pipe now is taxing storage capacity, hence the non-stop tank construction in Cushing (and presumably other places)
Click to expand...
Tank expansion in Cushing is not driven by Canadian crude.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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