Jan. 6 sentencing...

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CowboyJD

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Of course prosecutors disagree. More than likely these people would do harm. More than likely. Is it right, however, to not only send in spies into the group but spies that are allowed to “play along”?

Furthermore, if they acknowledged this plan with the kidnapping plot. They acknowledged it with lone bombers. Why would it be such a stretch to say there were none in such a large well known event?
If "spies" weren't allowed to "play along", they would quickly be outed as "spies".

In every single undercover case, undercover officers "play along". That's not entrapment.

Entrapment is an affirmative defense. It requires proof by the Defendant that the government agents induced or coerced the Defendant to commit the crime AND the defendant was not predisposed or inclined to commit a crime without the coercion of the government. Basically, the pressure or coercion by the State must be so intense as to overcome the normal reasonable law-abiding person with no predisposition to crime to overcome their law abiding nature.

Promising to provide or providing the means to commit the crime isn't isn't entrapment (though the latter is a really bad idea from a public policy perspective). "Playing along" isn't entrapment. Setting up meetings between co-conspirators isn't entrapment. Encouraging co-conspirators isn't entrapment. Heck, merely asking someone to commit a crime isn't entrapment.
 

Jostate

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They created fake electoral college letters

https://www.instagram.com/p/CYrHUzPu3Mj/?utm_medium=copy_link
They're about to find out that "sovereign citizen" crap they've been duped into believing won't work.

This is bigger than 1 idiot voting twice. I hope the penalty is harsh.
 

llcoolw

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If "spies" weren't allowed to "play along", they would quickly be outed as "spies".

In every single undercover case, undercover officers "play along". That's not entrapment.

Entrapment is an affirmative defense. It requires proof by the Defendant that the government agents induced or coerced the Defendant to commit the crime AND the defendant was not predisposed or inclined to commit a crime without the coercion of the government. Basically, the pressure or coercion by the State must be so intense as to overcome the normal reasonable law-abiding person with no predisposition to crime to overcome their law abiding nature.

Promising to provide or providing the means to commit the crime isn't isn't entrapment (though the latter is a really bad idea from a public policy perspective). "Playing along" isn't entrapment. Setting up meetings between co-conspirators isn't entrapment. Encouraging co-conspirators isn't entrapment. Heck, merely asking someone to commit a crime isn't entrapment.
I agree. With all of that. I think it’s pretty close to what I said like being lied to even in interrogation.

That’s why I’m open to the possibility these guys were egged on by folks not working in their best interests. And it is too bad too sad if you’re that stupid enough to even fall into violent groupthink. So that’s not a problem for me.

It just seems with such preliminary evidence of plot after plot, a more enlightened society would’ve stopped the plot in question right there at first signs and used a 1/4 of the resources involved here and at least try to intervene and rehabilitate.
 
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Jostate

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Here's the part I don't understand about the fake letters. What did they think would happen when the real letter showed up too? Did they think the other letter would just be discarded because they sent theirs first or something?
 
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Here's the part I don't understand about the fake letters. What did they think would happen when the real letter showed up too? Did they think the other letter would just be discarded because they sent theirs first or something?
I don't think idiots think things through very well. :)
 

CowboyJD

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I agree. With all of that. I think it’s pretty close to what I said like being lied to even in interrogation.

That’s why I’m open to the possibility these guys were egged on by folks not working in their best interests. And it is too bad too sad if you’re that stupid enough to even fall into violent groupthink. So that’s not a problem for me.

It just seems with such preliminary evidence of plot after plot, a more enlightened society would’ve stopped the plot in question right there at first signs and used a 1/4 of the resources involved here and at least try to intervene and rehabilitate.
Maybe...I definitely get your point. If, however, you stop the plot in question right there at first signs, there is the very real possibility that you stop it before you have sufficient evidence of an actual crime. Then the government's intervention is turned into a violation of civil rights and there is no prosecution or rehabilitation or punishment.

It's a very fine line, and I get the uncomfortableness with undercover government operations in general. I also get that the FBI doesn't have the best track record regarding civil rights, engaging in criminal conduct themselves towards individuals, and honoring that fine line and not way overstepping it.
 

llcoolw

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Maybe...I definitely get your point. If, however, you stop the plot in question right there at first signs, there is the very real possibility that you stop it before you have sufficient evidence of an actual crime. Then the government's intervention is turned into a violation of civil rights and there is no prosecution or rehabilitation or punishment.

It's a very fine line, and I get the uncomfortableness with undercover government operations in general. I also get that the FBI doesn't have the best track record regarding civil rights, engaging in criminal conduct themselves towards individuals, and honoring that fine line and not way overstepping it.
It does make for good political theatre. So there’s that.
 

llcoolw

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I’m not saying who it is today but with a bit of research, a couple of political groups have decided that the fbi needs a facelift after their statement relating the synagogue hostage situation has nothing to do with the Jewish community. One of the groups is pretty weak and is piggybacking on the more powerful group. I’d look for at least, some appeasement coming soon.
 

Cimarron

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I’m not saying who it is today but with a bit of research, a couple of political groups have decided that the fbi needs a facelift after their statement relating the synagogue hostage situation has nothing to do with the Jewish community. One of the groups is pretty weak and is piggybacking on the more powerful group. I’d look for at least, some appeasement coming soon.
The FBI has been politicized.

The government has always been a political football, it's the nature of the game. However, it seems to be getting worse than it ever has been. The more money that's involved in government the worse it gets.

Our tax dollars are being used to buy votes, not to build a stronger America.
 

TheMonkey

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The FBI has been politicized.

The government has always been a political football, it's the nature of the game. However, it seems to be getting worse than it ever has been. The more money that's involved in government the worse it gets.

Our tax dollars are being used to buy votes, not to build a stronger America.
Which is why we need to make it obvious that the way to buy our vote IS to build a stronger America. You get the government you deserve.