Israel conducts air strikes in Gaza

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cowboyinexile

Have some class
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Jun 29, 2004
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#42
Can anyone tell me why Obama sent 1.7 billion to Iran? I never understood the reason for his action.
They claimed we owed them $400 mil plus interest on assets frozen when they had their revolution. They also were holding American citizens as hostages and we wanted them to comply with our nuclear agreement.

The question I have is why the stacks of cash? I get why it went down but a wire transfer is so much better optics.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#43
What is interesting to me is how there has been a change in support of Israel in the US depending upon political sides.

It used to be everyone supported Israel and for the most part Republicans and most Democrats still do. Republicans support Israel by a super-majority with over 80% support and Democrats support Israel by over 50%. But those that identify as progressives or liberal have changed their support by 20% points toward Palestine in the last 5 years. And now more progressives/liberals support Palestine than Israel.

I am not sure why progressives/liberals have such a different view on the Israel/Palestine conflict. And why it has changed so much recently.
 
Oct 29, 2016
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#44
What is interesting to me is how there has been a change in support of Israel in the US depending upon political sides.

It used to be everyone supported Israel and for the most part Republicans and most Democrats still do. Republicans support Israel by a super-majority with over 80% support and Democrats support Israel by over 50%. But those that identify as progressives or liberal have changed their support by 20% points toward Palestine in the last 5 years. And now more progressives/liberals support Palestine than Israel.

I am not sure why progressives/liberals have such a different view on the Israel/Palestine conflict. And why it has changed so much recently.
"Jewish Americans are now more secular than ever before, study finds"

And, if I may add, US taxpayers have grown tired of the billions in aid to Israel. We all know that Israel is US' gateway to the middle east. Now that green renewable energies are now more than ever being developed and used, we don't need to terrorize and kill countless innocent people, all for that oil. Not to mention that secularism is on the rise in the US.

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com...-americans-are-more-secular-than-ever-before/
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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Earth
#45
"Jewish Americans are now more secular than ever before, study finds"

And, if I may add, US taxpayers have grown tired of the billions in aid to Israel. We all know that Israel is US' gateway to the middle east. Now that green renewable energies are now more than ever being developed and used, we don't need to terrorize and kill countless innocent people, all for that oil. Not to mention that secularism is on the rise in the US.

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com...-americans-are-more-secular-than-ever-before/
CowboyOrange82 - Maybe this isn't what you are talking about, but you do realize that the Jews bought back much of their own land with their own money, blood (literally), sweat and tears. This has been a constant struggle and, yes we have been allied with them in this process. I'd have to research much more to determine what percentage this has to do with oil...my thoughts on it now is that Israel doesn't have much to do with oil for the USA but it's about helping a brother out who has and had been wronged throughout history by both some Muslim and "catholic" people groups. Yes, it does have a religious part to it. And, this is why Israel works hard to keep the holy sites of three world religions open to each even though they are a Jewish state they work in cooperation with both Christians and Muslims to do that. Israel is the only "liberal" democracy in the middle east, they have elections and peaceful transitions of power. As Americans with a lot of world Power, we really do actually care about the people...that is why we are pro Israel and also why some people are confused about who to support when things like what is happening now do happen.

No matter what any of us think about the religious aspects of that state, a fundamentally secure, safe, and free Israel is so much better for everyone than a closed backward country that their "neighbors," and other former oppressors' what it to return too. The key is working together to provide safe access to these three world religious sites and all the history that encompasses. Who or whom do you think is best served to do that? Those who have done this since they re-established themselves in their homeland, or those they displaced who want them, and everyone else not like them, removed at least, if not killed, and never allowed back even to visit?
 
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Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
#47
https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1392189335617871872

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1392262243136442368

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1392276325508042756

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1392278314983776258

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1392460656746565638
 

wrenhal

Federal Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#50
What is interesting to me is how there has been a change in support of Israel in the US depending upon political sides.

It used to be everyone supported Israel and for the most part Republicans and most Democrats still do. Republicans support Israel by a super-majority with over 80% support and Democrats support Israel by over 50%. But those that identify as progressives or liberal have changed their support by 20% points toward Palestine in the last 5 years. And now more progressives/liberals support Palestine than Israel.

I am not sure why progressives/liberals have such a different view on the Israel/Palestine conflict. And why it has changed so much recently.
Media perception. They portray Hamas as freedom fighters from the invading force of Israelis. Just look at the disingenuous map posted above by pj.

Another example:
Videos of Jerusalem day singing and dancing were down with trees around the aqsa mosque burning. Everyone was lead to believe the Jews started the fires and then started dancing around. What really happened was the annual Jerusalem day that had a match ending at the wall. They were then attacked by Hamas from the mosque. They threw rocks on them and shot fireworks at them that caught the trees on fire. But the quick videos released to make Israel look bad, didn't show the first part and they quickly circulated on liberal social media.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
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Mar 11, 2006
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#52
Media perception. They portray Hamas as freedom fighters from the invading force of Israelis. Just look at the disingenuous map posted above by pj.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
That could be. I don't know the answer as to why a specific political segment has moved so much recently from Israel support to Palestine. Kind of fascinating to me. Could it be because:
1) Anti-semitism: Could Omar and Talib's comments be driving their followers to feel this way?? (EDIT: I don't personally think this is big driver, but it is interesting that the plummet of support from progressives/liberals coincided with AOC, Omar, and Talib's time on the national scene. And they have been very clear with their anti-Israel views).
2) Move of Israel embassy: Could the move of the US Embassy in Israel by Trump just have caused a backlash by those that want to disagree with him on everything?
3) Black Lives Matter solidarity with Palestine: Could the marches from BLM and statements from BLM leaders supporting Palestine and stating their solidarity be influencing their followers to support Palestine?
 
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Jun 14, 2011
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#53
Lol...So history for your map starts in 1897?
Israel map throughout history - YouTube
Fyi, the Kingdom of Israel was established in 1047 BC...Islam didn't even exist as a Religion until Mohammad started it in 610 AD...610 years after Christianity...and 2,000 plus years after Judaism.

Just some trivia in this "debate" over the holy land and who's it is...or isn't.
Yes, the one map I chose of many available does. It and the second part of my response was in reference to your hypothetical questions. Do you think the Palestinian kids who are being killed, made homeless, and uprooted give two shits about what happened 500, 1000, or more years ago? Hamas is clearly an origination whose chief export is terrorism, however, I don't believe for a second that Israel is some shining beacon of morality. The intent of my questions was to play devils advocate vs. just saying "tErrISM bAD - iSreal gUUD".

That said, thank you and all the other posters for the full history lesson with the single sentence and map responses that supposedly sums up the incredibly complicated history of that region. Much like water being wet, I am well aware of the centuries of strife that have plagued this area of the world. Hence my leading statement of "I find this whole cluster fascinating." Understanding that nuance and subtley don't translate well over messages posted online, perhaps I should have added another sentence and a video like you did to cover the full history of the issues...
 
Jun 14, 2011
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#54
Media perception. They portray Hamas as freedom fighters from the invading force of Israelis. Just look at the disingenuous map posted above by pj.

Another example:
Videos of Jerusalem day singing and dancing were down with trees around the aqsa mosque burning. Everyone was lead to believe the Jews started the fires and then started dancing around. What really happened was the annual Jerusalem day that had a match ending at the wall. They were then attacked by Hamas from the mosque. They threw rocks on them and shot fireworks at them that caught the trees on fire. But the quick videos released to make Israel look bad, didn't show the first part and they quickly circulated on liberal social media.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
How is the map disingenuous? Is it not accurate relative to the timeline it resides within? I posted that as a direct counter and alternative viewpoint to someone else's myopic point. I guess I should mention, much like @CowboyJD did, I am all for Israel protecting themselves from being attacked. Sorry I didn't clarify that for everyone from the start...

Edit: I can't believe I am arguing about this garbage online.
 
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CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Dec 10, 2004
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#55
How is the map disingenuous? Is it not accurate relative to the timeline is resides within? I posted that as a direct counter and alternative viewpoint to someone else's myopic point. I guess I should mention, much like @CowboyJD did, I am all for Israel protecting themselves from being attacked. Sorry I didn't clarify that for everyone from the start...

Edit: I can't believe I am arguing about this garbage online.
Then don't.

You'll be better for it in the end.
 
Sep 12, 2008
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#56
"Hamas political leader and designated terrorist Fathi Hammad called on Palestinians in Jerusalem on Friday to buy cheap knives in order to behead Jews.

In public remarks during an address which aired on Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV on Friday, Hammad called for the beheading of Jews.

“People of Jerusalem, we want you to cut off the heads of the Jews with knives,” he said, clarifying to “cut their [carotid] artery” as he demonstrated doing so with his hand. "


When the sh*t hits the fan, do you think it will be Israel or Palestine that will be our on our side?
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#59
Do you think the Palestinian kids who are being killed, made homeless, and uprooted give two shits about what happened 500, 1000, or more years ago?
Yes, yes I do.

IMO, denying it is an interesting position seeing as how our own country is in a social/cultural upheaval due to a recent alternative analysis of our own history going back 400 years and there are active measures being discussed and implemented to compensate people over what happened hundreds of years ago.

These people in the MIddle East have had centuries of differences disputed violently and just like these current being a live-action enactment of Suess' " The Butter Battle", I guarantee you every Palestinian kid can cite every perceived historical transgressions with 100x the detail a US kid can describe Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
 
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