Derek Chauvin verdict

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Pokit N

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While that wasn't the totality of my point, I do agree that journalism has had bias....and continues to have bias....from all media sources, left or right, since the beginning of time.

The rest of my point was that journalism isn't a monolithic entity, and that people don't seem to have a problem with bias in journalism when it's biased towards "their" ideas or beliefs. Imagine the uproar if journalist were giving both sides "equal weight and merit" during WWII or after 9/11.

Also, that journalism is and always has been about more than just reporting what is said by the "sides", giving equal merit and weight to both sides, shrugging your shoulders as to what you believe the truth is, and calling it a day.
Biases are one thing and agenda's are another. When they edited the video to take out the knife the girl was holding, it wasn't because they didn't want to give an "evil ideology" merit. They wanted to craft a narrative.
 

TheMonkey

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Biases are one thing and agenda's are another. When they edited the video to take out the knife the girl was holding, it wasn't because they didn't want to give an "evil ideology" merit. They wanted to craft a narrative.
All fine and good, but he was responding to the tweet you posted stating...
“Nightly News anchor @LesterHoltNBC accepts Edward R. Murrow Award and proclaims "fairness is overrated," insists it's not necessary to "always give two sides equal weight and merit"”
 

Binman4OSU

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I think that is a incredibly ridiculous position to take because of what happens if instead of a knife, someone had a gun themselves and now the officer is looking at facing off against real bullets with two rubber bullets to start.

I think it is a incredibly, insidiously, asinine position to take that police officers should be meeting imminent, immediate lethal/great bodily injury force (which a knife absolutely is) with less than lethal force.

Would you still be "willing to bet" on those 2 rubber bullets if the girl being assaulted with a knife, about to get stabbed, was a child or wife of yours?
I'm not 100% sure we are talking about the same rubber bullets. Not the kind you buy at Cabellas and can fire and then go pick up from the backstop. The Cabellas type have no powder charge in them and only rely on the primer to propel the projectile. The ones I'm talking about have a charge behind them. They achieve almost the same muzzle velocity and force as a real bullet.

Police have access to 9mm rubber bullets which have a metal core and can be lethal at short range. Infact in June of last year there was a study conducted on shooting incidents around the world where these metal core rubber bullets were used by police. 3% of the time they resulted in Death and almost 3,000 were hospitalized after being shot by these bullets but survived.
 
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Binman4OSU

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I struggle with whether I should respond to this at all, as it seems like you are just trolling at this point but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
For a rubber bullet to work it has to be large enough to hurt really bad, I dont think a 9mm rubber bullet would be large enough to be effective, normal rubber or beanbag rounds are fired through a shotgun or 40 mm if I am not mistaken, at 9mm it might even penetrate still.
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Police and Security officers in Russia, Ukraine, and other European cities use them in their 9mm firearms and 10mm gas powered guns every day and they have been very effective, have proven they can be lethal, and have proven they can cause serious and traumatic injures.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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Police and Security officers in Russia, Ukraine, and other European cities use them in their 9mm firearms and 10mm gas powered guns every day and they have been very effective, have proven they can be lethal, and have proven they can cause serious and traumatic injures.
None of which have the amount of armed people that the US has. I don't think you understand just how bad it is in the bad places in the US. They call it Chiraq for a reason

Edit, I looked it up, and as far as I can tell they are only used in places where regular guns are illegal including to the police, and they have to be used with special weapons that do not fire regular bullets. the prevailing sentiment I see is that regular weapons will not be able to cycle both rubber and metal bullets
 
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Pokit N

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All fine and good, but he was responding to the tweet you posted stating...
“Nightly News anchor @LesterHoltNBC accepts Edward R. Murrow Award and proclaims "fairness is overrated," insists it's not necessary to "always give two sides equal weight and merit"”
Yes and my post was in response to the edited video about the most recent shooting...in which I said, they have an Agenda, not a Bias.

Are we all caught up?
 

CowboyJD

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I'm not 100% sure we are talking about the same rubber bullets. Not the kind you buy at Cabellas and can fire and then go pick up from the backstop. The Cabellas type have no powder charge in them and only rely on the primer to propel the projectile. The ones I'm talking about have a charge behind them. They achieve almost the same muzzle velocity and force as a real bullet.

Police have access to 9mm rubber bullets which have a metal core and can be lethal at short range. Infact in June of last year there was a study conducted on shooting incidents around the world where these metal core rubber bullets were used by police. 3% of the time they resulted in Death and almost 3,000 were hospitalized after being shot by these bullets but survived.
I advise law enforcement agencies as part of my new job (of two years) and advised a single law enforcement agency (statewide) for 20 years and have given use of force legal training to law enforcement officers for at least 10 years.

I know exactly what you are talking about and it’s still an incredibly asinine idea that an officer’s firearm should be loaded with two less than lethal rounds before having access to lethal force.
 
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Binman4OSU

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I advise law enforcement agencies as part of my new job and have given use of force training to law enforcement officers for at least 10 years.

I know exactly what you are talking about and it’s still an incredibly asinine idea that an officer’s firearm should be loaded with two less than lethal rounds before having access to lethal force.
thank you for your expertise and pointing out the flaws. I appreciate it. I'm just searching for a more effective and less lethal way of doing the job if possible...while allowing the access to lethal if needed.

In the ideal situation the officer could have a lethal weapon and assess the situation and be able to easily switch to less than lethal without having to change tools.
 
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Which proves the bullet type I'm talking about and the Rubber bullets that you guy buy at Cabella's or online as a recreational shooter are not 1 in the same. Different animals
  • Since 1999, the civil population, private security officers, and law control forces in Russia are permitted to use less-lethal weapons.[20][21] A variety of handguns (OSA, "Makarych", HORHE, etc.) are carried with specially weakened construction and barrel with internal lugs, making use of full-power loads and/or firing hard projectiles impossible, while rubber bullets just compress when passing the lug and so may be fired. Most common calibers are 9 mm and 10 mm with muzzle velocity sometimes almost matching normal handguns and bullets as light as 0.7 g.
  • Ukraine – Security guards may use less-lethal gas pistols with the ability to fire ammunition with rubber bullets.[22][23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_bullet

Special guns, used in places where guns are illegal, tasers are more effective, that is why police carry tasers instead of Rubber bullet side arms
 

Binman4OSU

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  • Since 1999, the civil population, private security officers, and law control forces in Russia are permitted to use less-lethal weapons.[20][21] A variety of handguns (OSA, "Makarych", HORHE, etc.) are carried with specially weakened construction and barrel with internal lugs, making use of full-power loads and/or firing hard projectiles impossible, while rubber bullets just compress when passing the lug and so may be fired. Most common calibers are 9 mm and 10 mm with muzzle velocity sometimes almost matching normal handguns and bullets as light as 0.7 g.
  • Ukraine – Security guards may use less-lethal gas pistols with the ability to fire ammunition with rubber bullets.[22][23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_bullet

Special guns, used in places where guns are illegal, tasers are more effective, that is why police carry tasers instead of Rubber bullet side arms
Guns are not illegal in the Ukraine FYI
 

TheMonkey

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Yes and my post was in response to the edited video about the most recent shooting...in which I said, they have an Agenda, not a Bias.

Are we all caught up?
I watched the NBC video. I see a knife. They play the clip of the police mentioning she was attacking someone with the knife. The chyron mentions she had a knife. The video repeatedly mentions the knife. Am I looking at the wrong video?
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Sep 22, 2011
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thank you for your expertise and pointing out the flaws. I appreciate it. I'm just searching for a more effective and less lethal way of doing the job if possible...while allowing the access to lethal if needed.

In the ideal situation the officer could have a lethal weapon and assess the situation and be able to easily switch to less than lethal without having to change tools.
If there was a better way, don't you think police would employ it? I guarantee if there was a less lethal option that stopped a person committing violence as effectively as shooting them did, the police would be using it.
 

CowboyJD

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thank you for your expertise and pointing out the flaws. I appreciate it. I'm just searching for a more effective and less lethal way of doing the job if possible...while allowing the access to lethal if needed.

In the ideal situation the officer could have a lethal weapon and assess the situation and be able to easily switch to less than lethal without having to change tools.
This is what I think you just aren’t getting through all this, “hot calls” are never going to be the ideal situation as you describe it because there is no time to assess the situation when the threat of great bodily injury or death is immediate and imminent. It is literally a seconds shoot/don’t shoot decision.

I am all for less than lethal force as back-up or as secondary option if the circumstances warrant it and there is not a danger of immediate, imminent, great bodily injury or death from an assailant.
 
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Sep 22, 2011
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I watched the NBC video. I see a knife. They play the clip of the police mentioning she was attacking someone with the knife. The chyron mentions she had a knife. The video repeatedly mentions the knife. Am I looking at the wrong video?
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There were some careful editing choices made, that raise my eyebrows a bit, like pausing the video when you can no longer see the knife. If a person only saw that report and did not see the video slowed down or paused in the correct spot then you could definitely be left thinking it was a bad shoot.

Case in point, I showed the video at full speed to my wife who had not seen it last night and asked her for her reaction, she said it was a bad shoot at minimum, then I had her watch it at .25 speed where you can clearly see the girl was about to stab the girl in pink and she changed her mind. Very subtle editing choices can effect people who just glance at this story and dont look into it.
 

TheMonkey

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There were some careful editing choices made, that raise my eyebrows a bit, like pausing the video when you can no longer see the knife. If a person only saw that report and did not see the video slowed down or paused in the correct spot then you could definitely be left thinking it was a bad shoot.

Case in point, I showed the video at full speed to my wife who had not seen it last night and asked her for her reaction, she said it was a bad shoot at minimum, then I had her watch it at .25 speed where you can clearly see the girl was about to stab the girl in pink and she changed her mind. Very subtle editing choices can effect people who just glance at this story and dont look into it.
So now it’s “very subtle editing choices?”

The way this is being discussed it sounds like NBC went in and actually removed the knife through some tricky graphics editing. Now it seems like a stretch. I watched that video and didn’t think much about it.

She had a knife. They showed it. They mentioned it. It’s in the chyron.

Unless I’m missing something, you guys are overreacting.
 

Pokit N

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I watched the NBC video. I see a knife. They play the clip of the police mentioning she was attacking someone with the knife. The chyron mentions she had a knife. The video repeatedly mentions the knife. Am I looking at the wrong video?
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Sigh..they stopped the video just short of showing her w/ the knife but kept the audio rolling so you could here the gunshots but not see her try to stab anyone.

They specifically used the words "authority's claimed she had a knife" the suggestion of course is that the authorities could be lying. They say that body cam videos show a knife on the ground..The body cam video showed a knife in her hand, and only on the ground after she was shot while trying to kill someone.
It's a deliberately misleading news report.
 

TheMonkey

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Sigh..they stopped the video just short of showing her w/ the knife but kept the audio rolling so you could here the gunshots but not see her try to stab anyone.

They specifically used the words "authority's claimed she had a knife" the suggestion of course is that the authorities could be lying. They say that body cam videos show a knife on the ground..The body cam video showed a knife in her hand, and only on the ground after she was shot while trying to kill someone.
It's a deliberately misleading news report.
I don’t see it that way.

The police chief says “What the video shows is a female with a knife attempting to stab the first female...”

They actually stop the video AFTER she flashes the knife but before the officer fired his weapon. Likely to avoid showing her being shot. I will agree it is hard to see the knife at the moment they paused it, but it’s a stretch to say they deceptively edited it.

Sigh indeed.