Derek Chauvin verdict

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Duke Silver

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To determine what exactly happened.
This is a foster home, those kids still living there need to be safe.
To determine if this girl was in the middle of rightfully defending her own life when police arrived.
To understand why the 911 caller mentioned their grandmother was being threatened and roughed up. Who is this grandmother??
The 911 call was about someone trying to stab girls....was this girl a potential victim that got her hands on the weapon and then try to use it to defend herself and others
Did other non residents of the house show up and escalate the situation where people feared for their lives?
The cop came. The girl's life was not in danger but she got up and started stabbing. That isn't self defense. Stopping there would have resulted in everyone going home.
 
May 31, 2007
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To determine what exactly happened.
This is a foster home, those kids still living there need to be safe.
To determine if this girl was in the middle of rightfully defending her own life when police arrived.
To understand why the 911 caller mentioned their grandmother was being threatened and roughed up. Who is this grandmother??
The 911 call was about someone trying to stab girls....was this girl a potential victim that got her hands on the weapon and then try to use it to defend herself and others
Did other non residents of the house show up and escalate the situation where people feared for their lives?
I’m sure the investigation will determine whether others there committed minor crimes. But as far as the girl, she might have initially been the victim but clearly she turned perpetrator at some point and tried to murder another person. Watching the videos tells us that aspect of it.
 

CowboyJD

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Does the girl who was shot have any right to stand your ground protection? These people were at her house and attacking her ? I'm wondering where her rights to protect herself and use deadly force to protect herself in her own home and on her own yard ended.
You are sure focused on using hindsight and after acquired knowledge to determine whether the officer's use of force was justified under the law or not.

That's simply not the standard....and could never be a functional, reasonable standard to have.
 
May 31, 2007
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Does the girl who was shot have any right to stand your ground protection? These people were at her house and attacking her ? I'm wondering where her rights to protect herself and use deadly force to protect herself in her own home and on her own yard ended.
I haven’t studied stand your ground. Does it allow you to move forward and be the aggressor once you have been threatened?
 

UrbanCowboy1

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You are sure focused on using hindsight and after acquired knowledge to determine whether the officer's use of force was justified under the law or not.

That's simply not the standard....and could never be a functional, reasonable standard to have.
Well, we do it with the football team all the time, so it must be valid. :cool:
 

andylicious

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While I agree with your overall sentiment here the speed limits kinda are a tax in some instances and a safety measure in others depending on the geography of the area being limited. Of course this is a very minor and insignificant point. Officers should be embarrassed and reprimanded/charged if they break the laws they are suppose to enforce.
But they aren't. I had a meeting at FSA one day and my wife are driving along when a trooper blew by us like we were sitting still. When we pulled up to FSA the trooper and a woman were walking out of the office. If you are willing to flout the law like that you probably think less don't apply to you.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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To determine what exactly happened.
This is a foster home, those kids still living there need to be safe.
To determine if this girl was in the middle of rightfully defending her own life when police arrived.
To understand why the 911 caller mentioned their grandmother was being threatened and roughed up. Who is this grandmother??
The 911 call was about someone trying to stab girls....was this girl a potential victim that got her hands on the weapon and then try to use it to defend herself and others
Did other non residents of the house show up and escalate the situation where people feared for their lives?
I hear you and agree with you that we all don’t have the entire story. It certainly appears from witness accounts that she was the one that started the violence, but I don’t know if that is accurate.

But that doesn’t change the police officers perspective. The new video from across the street shows that she swung at the first girl while the officer was right there and then changed direction and attacked the girl in the pink right in front of the officer. He had to make a split second decision. If she was being victimized it would seem to me she would react differently.

But my main issue remains how our media and politicians sensationalize and divide us.
CNN‘s initial headline was “Black Teen Killed by White Police Officer” as “Derek Chauvin conviction announced”.
‘Daily Kos’s headline was “Black Teen shot, killed at the hands of White Cop”.

Why focus on race? Does anyone honestly believe race played any impact in the outcome? Of course not, but racial division creates sides, scores political points, and webclicks equal dollars.
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Dec 10, 2004
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To determine what exactly happened.
This is a foster home, those kids still living there need to be safe.
To determine if this girl was in the middle of rightfully defending her own life when police arrived.
To understand why the 911 caller mentioned their grandmother was being threatened and roughed up. Who is this grandmother??
The 911 call was about someone trying to stab girls....was this girl a potential victim that got her hands on the weapon and then try to use it to defend herself and others
Did other non residents of the house show up and escalate the situation where people feared for their lives?
I'm really interested in what your "shoot/don't shoot" decision would have been.

You know exactly the same thing the officer knew as he was dispatched. Hell, you can even be asking yourself these questions that you are Monday morning quarterbacking with as you roll up. Also, you're not gonna have that information when you get there, but you can keep those concerns in the back (or front) of your mind in making your decision.

When you roll up on that call out, you see and hear exactly what the body cam shows......

Shoot?

Don't shoot?

If you don't shoot, what do you do instead?
 
Jul 31, 2012
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Does the girl who was shot have any right to stand your ground protection? These people were at her house and attacking her ? I'm wondering where her rights to protect herself and use deadly force to protect herself in her own home and on her own yard ended.

if the law in Ohio similar as here in Oklahoma...no. She lost her right when she went into the home and the aggressors stayed out side. At that point it was over. When she came back out with a knife...she became the aggressor.


Friend of mine went thru the same scenario except when the officer told him to drop the knife...he did
 

Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
I'm really interested in what your "shoot/don't shoot" decision would have been.

You know exactly the same thing the officer knew as he was dispatched. Hell, you can even be asking yourself these questions that you are Monday morning quarterbacking with as you roll up. Also, you're not gonna have that information when you get there, but you can keep those concerns in the back (or front) of your mind in making your decision.

When you roll up on that call out, you see and hear exactly what the body cam shows......

Shoot?

Don't shoot?

If you don't shoot, what do you do instead?
Why do you assume I think the officer was on the wrong ?

Fyi I think the officer did what he had to do and was forced to take action and did the correct thing
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Why do you assume I think the officer was on the wrong ?

Fyi I think the officer did what he had to do and was forced to take action and did the correct thing
Why do you think I was assuming anything when I just asked you what you would do in the same situation?

All your prior posts were about things we needed to know before we could determine whether it was a good shoot and misguided theories and ideas about using less than lethal on hot calls first.

I just wanted to know what you think you would have done if you had found yourself in the same situation. You kind of sidestepped the question, but came close enough to answering it for me.
 

Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
Why do you think I was assuming anything when I just asked you what you would do in the same situation?

All your prior posts were about things we needed to know before we could determine whether it was a good shoot and misguided theories and ideas about using less than lethal on hot calls first.

I just wanted to know what you think you would have done if you had found yourself in the same situation. You kind of sidestepped the question, but came close enough to answering it for me.
All my prior points were not about this shot being good or not...it was about knowing the complete Truth. This may very well be tragic story for the person shot....and the officer was not in the wrong
 
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Why do you assume I think the officer was on the wrong ?

Fyi I think the officer did what he had to do and was forced to take action and did the correct thing
A tragedy for a young girl who lost her life, and in a way a tragedy for the officer who had to make that rapid decision. Even with it being a correct decision, I’m confident there are other things he’d rather live with going forward.
 

CowboyJD

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All my prior points were not about this shot being good or not...it was about knowing the complete Truth. This may very well be tragic story for the person shot....and the officer was not in the wrong
Okay....cool.

In conjunction with your more less than lethal force options needed for “hot calls” posts at the same, I think I was fairly justified in wondering what you would have done in the same situation. So I asked, rather than assumed.
 

cowboyinexile

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I don't get how there is much debate on this one.

Most of the high profile incidents are high profile for a reason-either they clearly shouldn't have happened or there is so much of a grey area that always seems to go against a minority suspect/victim that it causes an uproar.

This one, man I don't see how it's not a clean shoot. The officer witnessed an attempted murder and acted. Race or anything in the system that impacts minorities disproportionately doesn't impact this outcome. If I get pulled over aside from being nervous about a ticket I'm fine. A Black guy my age has "let's not end up like Philando Castile" in the back of his head and that clearly speaks to the injustice we are talking about. But if I'm trying to stab someone when the cops show up, I'm playing stupid games there.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I don't get how there is much debate on this one.

Most of the high profile incidents are high profile for a reason-either they clearly shouldn't have happened or there is so much of a grey area that always seems to go against a minority suspect/victim that it causes an uproar.

This one, man I don't see how it's not a clean shoot. The officer witnessed an attempted murder and acted. Race or anything in the system that impacts minorities disproportionately doesn't impact this outcome. If I get pulled over aside from being nervous about a ticket I'm fine. A Black guy my age has "let's not end up like Philando Castile" in the back of his head and that clearly speaks to the injustice we are talking about. But if I'm trying to stab someone when the cops show up, I'm playing stupid games there.
Philando castile reached for a gun, the officer even tried to stop him from getting it. Don't fight, don't run, dont reach for a weapon, comply and you have almost no chance of getting shot by police, regardless of your race. You can beat the rap, but you cant beat the ride.
 

cowboyinexile

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Philando castile reached for a gun, the officer even tried to stop him from getting it. Don't fight, don't run, dont reach for a weapon, comply and you have almost no chance of getting shot by police, regardless of your race. You can beat the rap, but you cant beat the ride.
No he didn't. He told the officer he had a cc permit and was carrying in an attempt to be compliant. He wasn't under suspicion. He got pulled over on a DWB charge because he "looked" like a local suspect. He keeps his mouth shut about having a gun in the vehicle and it's likely he is alive today. He was compliant and overshared. His biggest offense was trying to be completely transparent.

If you don't believe me remember his daughter was in the backseat. Before things went down it was a routine traffic stop. There was no reason for him to reach for a gun and endanger his girlfriend and child. That was a bad shoot and the cop was lucky to just lose his badge.
 

Jostate

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Why do you assume I think the officer was on the wrong ?

Fyi I think the officer did what he had to do and was forced to take action and did the correct thing
I watched the video on this one. I wish the driver would have just frozen when the cop was saying "don't pull it out! don't pull it out!" but I'm going to second guess the cop. It's not the driver's job to assess the jumpiness of the cop, it's the other way around. People usually don't calmly announce they have a concealed firearm if they intend to kill a cop. The driver did not display any threatening actions or tone, he had a little girl in the back seat, this cop is too jumpy to be doing this job, you could hear the fear in his voice from the start. If I'm on the jury, based on what I saw, I'm convicting the cop.

I really believe, if the driver looked like me, he drives on his way with a ticket for a tail light being out. The girlfriend is the one who should be a cop, she could have made this worse but she kept her head about her.
 
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