Cowboy Basketball: KU defeats OSU in Allenfield House. Series Split. Next up KSU on Saturday.

[oklapokes]

Agree completely and I think Cade plays much better when he is not running the point. Gives the opportunity for the defense to be out of position when he receives the ball as opposed to him having to get the defense out of position.


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No doubt, we are a better team with Ice running the show. Cade plays out of control, like he can dribble into a double team which seems to always result in a turnover. He thinks he could do it in high school and can do the same in the college game.

One assist for the point guard with 7 turnovers will not win games. There is no team for the last five minutes of a game, just Cade Cunningham taking over with hardly any thought of passing to an open man.

 

[Jalexjsmithj]

Agree completely and I think Cade plays much better when he is not running the point. Gives the opportunity for the defense to be out of position when he receives the ball as opposed to him having to get the defense out of position.


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No doubt, we are a better team with Ice running the show. Cade plays out of control, like he can dribble into a double team which seems to always result in a turnover. He thinks he could do it in high school and can do the same in the college game.

One assist for the point guard with 7 turnovers will not win games. There is no team for the last five minutes of a game, just Cade Cunningham taking over with hardly any thought of passing to an open man.

Couldn’t disagree more. If you aren’t seeing Cade make ridiculous cross court passes, and the corner 3s not falling because we just don’t have the spacers on the court, then I don’t know what to tell you.


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[aggiejet]

Couldn’t disagree more. If you aren’t seeing Cade make ridiculous cross court passes, and the corner 3s not falling because we just don’t have the spacers on the court, then I don’t know what to tell you.


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So that kinda begs the point doesn’t it? Pokes don’t have any reliable 3 point shooters, so why does MB run an offense to try and make that happen?

 

[Chairman of the Board]

Cade has hit 8 of his last 36 two point shots, and 9 of his last 17 from 3. (three games worth)

He had 7 turnovers last night.

He had 6 against Texas (granted, with two OTs)

A lot of the struggles are from trying to force him into the lane in traffic and putting him in a really tough spot.

I think he needs to work more along the perimeter with teammates on the backside cutting to the basket, and if they want to sag back and take away the lane, he drains a 3. He's shooting 42% from 3. Next closest (not counting Ice) is AA at 38%. 42% is higher than Dizzy last year, and he was free to fire away.

He's made a lot of great inside/out passes that we don't convert on, because he's really the only shooter. I'd rather see him making passes from outside in, to players who have flashed in the lane or used a screen.

I'm not saying he needs to get crazy, but he can create a lot of open threes for himself by making teams pay for clogging the lane. And then if/when they run at him on the perimeter, you take a defender out of the lane and get give him more room to work.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

Cade has hit 8 of his last 36 two point shots, and 9 of his last 17 from 3. (three games worth)

He had 7 turnovers last night.

He had 6 against Texas (granted, with two OTs)

A lot of the struggles are from trying to force him into the lane in traffic and putting him in a really tough spot.

I think he needs to work more along the perimeter with teammates on the backside cutting to the basket, and if they want to sag back and take away the lane, he drains a 3. He's shooting 42% from 3. Next closest (not counting Ice) is AA at 38%. 42% is higher than Dizzy last year, and he was free to fire away.

He's made a lot of great inside/out passes that we don't convert on, because he's really the only shooter. I'd rather see him making passes from outside in, to players who have flashed in the lane or used a screen.

I'm not saying he needs to get crazy, but he can create a lot of open threes for himself by making teams pay for clogging the lane. And then if/when they run at him on the perimeter, you take a defender out of the lane and get give him more room to work.

Very good thoughts

I would ask though....
How many of his 3's are catch and shoot?

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like all of his 3's are off the dribble with the ball in his hands and him trying to create for himself.

 

[orangedog]

I'm beginning to think that there is a price to pay for having a super star on your team. I'm not for a second saying we would be better off w/o Cade, but think about the Thunder post Westbrook or even the Sooners post Trae Young. Having THE guy changes the mentality of your team dynamics. It's a tricky situation, and I'm sure its hard to manage. It doesn't always work out

 

[Jalexjsmithj]

Couldn’t disagree more. If you aren’t seeing Cade make ridiculous cross court passes, and the corner 3s not falling because we just don’t have the spacers on the court, then I don’t know what to tell you.


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So that kinda begs the point doesn’t it? Pokes don’t have any reliable 3 point shooters, so why does MB run an offense to try and make that happen?

I mean he doesn’t, but playing without the 3 is essentially equivalent to playing football without the forward pass. Even if you’re much better at one skillset, you can’t play completely without the other type of play because they open each other up. But it’s not like we’re some jack up it up team. We’re 9th of 10 in the conference on 3 point attempts per game.


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[SlurrrPup]

Another game we could have used Yor. Still a headscratcher that he left.

 

[SlurrrPup]

Cade has hit 8 of his last 36 two point shots, and 9 of his last 17 from 3. (three games worth)

He had 7 turnovers last night.

He had 6 against Texas (granted, with two OTs)

A lot of the struggles are from trying to force him into the lane in traffic and putting him in a really tough spot.

I think he needs to work more along the perimeter with teammates on the backside cutting to the basket, and if they want to sag back and take away the lane, he drains a 3. He's shooting 42% from 3. Next closest (not counting Ice) is AA at 38%. 42% is higher than Dizzy last year, and he was free to fire away.

He's made a lot of great inside/out passes that we don't convert on, because he's really the only shooter. I'd rather see him making passes from outside in, to players who have flashed in the lane or used a screen.

I'm not saying he needs to get crazy, but he can create a lot of open threes for himself by making teams pay for clogging the lane. And then if/when they run at him on the perimeter, you take a defender out of the lane and get give him more room to work.

I agree with your post.

However, I find humor in your statement about Cade's 3-pt shooting % (30/71)being better than Dizzy last year. While it is true, Dizzy did only shot 41.5% (76/183) with over twice as many attempts.

As far as that goes, Cade is shooting better than Randy Rutherford did his Junior and Senior year. 78/193 for 40.4% and 146/349 for 41.8%. However Randy did have less TO's in both of those seasons than Cade does and Cade still has several games to go, we must have been playing Randy out of position.

 

[Sutton4ever]

Cade's turnovers and ball dominance in the second half is a problem. I don't think that Ice is necessarily the answer. He struggles too. Ice not being a threat as of late has really shrunk the driving lanes for Cade as well. I would like to see some flow on offense early in the possession and then resort to Cade making a play late in the possession.

 

[Chairman of the Board]

Very good thoughts

I would ask though....
How many of his 3's are catch and shoot?

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like all of his 3's are off the dribble with the ball in his hands and him trying to create for himself.

I think you’re right. Most are off the dribble—so set a

I agree with your post.

However, I find humor in your statement about Cade's 3-pt shooting % (30/71)being better than Dizzy last year. While it is true, Dizzy did only shot 41.5% (76/183) with over twice as many attempts.

As far as that goes, Cade is shooting better than Randy Rutherford did his Junior and Senior year. 78/193 for 40.4% and 146/349 for 41.8%. However Randy did have less TO's in both of those seasons than Cade does and Cade still has several games to go, we must have been playing Randy out of position.

As you said, it is true. I was pointing out the surprising fact that he is shooting such a high percentage. It's not as many as shots as Dizzy, but it's also not a small sample (3/4 of a season).

My point is, the numbers say he's much more efficient beyond the arch. Yes, I'm sure they'd even out some if he took more 3's....but maybe he's just a really good three point shooter. A few more open threes for him and a few less turnovers in traffic definitely won't make the team worse.

 

[Jalexjsmithj]

Cade's turnovers and ball dominance in the second half is a problem. I don't think that Ice is necessarily the answer. He struggles too. Ice not being a threat as of late has really shrunk the driving lanes for Cade as well. I would like to see some flow on offense early in the possession and then resort to Cade making a play late in the possession.

I think the larger problem are the mistakes that he makes forcing his presence in the first half, where he has the turnovers but none of the scoring.

It’s a pattern at this point that Cade takes over when it’s crunch time. And frankly, when he does, it looks elite. But I miss the Cade we saw in the early part of the season where Cade would play within the offense and grow into the game, and then like clockwork would his thing later in the game.

Having said that, I think Cade pushing so hard in the first half has got to be in part the fault of some of our fanbase and pundits like Fran who’s expectations are prime Warriors-Kevin Durant or, more in the case of this thread (not you S4E), are old men yelling at clouds because the point guard dare to shoot off the dribble.


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[SlurrrPup]

As you said, it is true. I was pointing out the surprising fact that he is shooting such a high percentage. It's not as many as shots as Dizzy, but it's also not a small sample (3/4 of a season).

My point is, the numbers say he's much more efficient beyond the arch. Yes, I'm sure they'd even out some if he took more 3's....but maybe he's just a really good three point shooter. A few more open threes for him and a few less turnovers in traffic definitely won't make the team worse.

Cade seems so relaxed when he takes that shot. Like an NBA player.

I'll still take Randy Rutherford over any other OSU player from 3 and Dizzy over most (41.1% career).

 

[Sutton4ever]

I think the larger problem are the mistakes that he makes forcing his presence in the first half, where he has the turnovers but none of the scoring.

It’s a pattern at this point that Cade takes over when it’s crunch time. And frankly, when he does, it looks elite. But I miss the Cade we saw in the early part of the season where Cade would play within the offense and grow into the game, and then like clockwork would his thing later in the game.

Having said that, I think Cade pushing so hard in the first half has got to be in part the fault of some of our fanbase and pundits like Fran who’s expectations are prime Warriors-Kevin Durant or, more in the case of this thread (not you S4E), are old men yelling at clouds because the point guard dare to shoot off the dribble.


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I find it to be a lack of ball movement and player movement when Cade wants to "take over".

 

[NinjaPoke]

Cade seems so relaxed when he takes that shot. Like an NBA player.

I'll still take Randy Rutherford over any other OSU player from 3 and Dizzy over most (41.1% career).

Bold statement about Dizzy. I think Forte may have his number behind the arc.

 

[SlurrrPup]

Bold statement about Dizzy. I think Forte may have his number behind the arc.

Actually, Dizzy has a better % than Forte. Career 41.1% vs 39.5%.

Forte has more attempts but that is mostly due to him playing a lot more than Dizzy as a FR and SO.