Covid-19

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steross

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Contrary to what is reported all over the anti-vaxx sites, vaccination (at least Pfizer) limits symptomatic and asymptomatic spread of COVID-19.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2779853


Results A total of 6710 health care workers (mean [SD] age, 44.3 [12.5] years; 4465 [66.5%] women) were followed up for a median period of 63 days; 5953 health care workers (88.7%) received at least 1 dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine, 5517 (82.2%) received 2 doses, and 757 (11.3%) were not vaccinated. Vaccination was associated with older age compared with those who were not vaccinated (mean age, 44.8 vs 40.7 years, respectively) and male sex (31.4% vs 17.7%). Symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection occurred in 8 fully vaccinated health care workers and 38 unvaccinated health care workers (incidence rate, 4.7 vs 149.8 per 100 000 person-days, respectively, adjusted IRR, 0.03 [95% CI, 0.01-0.06]). Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection occurred in 19 fully vaccinated health care workers and 17 unvaccinated health care workers (incidence rate, 11.3 vs 67.0 per 100 000 person-days, respectively, adjusted IRR, 0.14 [95% CI, 0.07-0.31]). The results were qualitatively unchanged by the propensity score sensitivity analysis.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/1392815743142617092
The article did little to explain how winners would be selected. The article states winners would be chosen from the voter registration database. Does that mean to win you also have to be a registered voter....sounds like it? Should I assume that the state is linking the database of vaccinated citizens to its database of voters prior to pulling the winners?
Although I don't care at all who knows I am vaccinated, some people are very private about their health matters ---- I am obviously missing some of the details. Will be interesting to see if they have a surge of people getting vaccinated over the next two weeks.
 

Birry

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In a New York second, yes.

I already do it for the flu, anyway. Why wouldn’t I?
Fair enough, for you. I don't get flu shots, and haven't had the flu in 15-20 years. Therefore I will not get a yearly covid shot, either. Why would I? I hate shots, especially ones as ineffective as the seasonal flu vaccinations. Why would I take a 40-50% effective vaccine yearly to prevent something I get every 15-20 years?

Perhaps when I'm old and frail I'll consider it, but for now I'm good.
 

Birry

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So what if it is an annual shot? I get a flu shot every year. I get an allergy shot every month. Not a big deal.
Good for you. I avoid shots at all costs. Got shot every time I stepped into a military medical clinic growing up, and now I choose to avoid them when possible. Guess what? I'm perfectly healthy and don't need monthly shots to keep me going, so I choose to avoid them, and it works perfectly fine for me and my family.

We aren't anti-vax by any means. But we don't line up to get shot frequently just for the hell of it like a lot of people seem to do.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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Wishing I was in Stillwater
Fair enough, for you. I don't get flu shots, and haven't had the flu in 15-20 years. Therefore I will not get a yearly covid shot, either. Why would I? I hate shots, especially ones as ineffective as the seasonal flu vaccinations. Why would I take a 40-50% effective vaccine yearly to prevent something I get every 15-20 years?

Perhaps when I'm old and frail I'll consider it, but for now I'm good.
this is why I think we're doomed.jpg
 

CPTNQUIRK

I'm Your Captain!
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Good for you. I avoid shots at all costs. Got shot every time I stepped into a military medical clinic growing up, and now I choose to avoid them when possible. Guess what? I'm perfectly healthy and don't need monthly shots to keep me going, so I choose to avoid them, and it works perfectly fine for me and my family.

We aren't anti-vax by any means. But we don't line up to get shot frequently just for the hell of it like a lot of people seem to do.
Avoiding shots will work for you until it doesn’t. It’s like car insurance. You don’t really need it until you are in a wreck that is your fault or your car gets stolen and burned. You don’t need a life preserver in a boat until you do. You don’t need a spare tire until you do.
 
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steross

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Cute meme. You'll have to clarify the hyperbole, though. Why is humanity "doomed"?
I would suspect he is referring to the fact that widespread vaccination is the best way to prevent symptomatic and asymptomatic spread and development of variants that the vaccine will not control.

Vaccines work best when the maximum number of people are vaccinated. "Herd immunity" is thrown around like a buzzword to debate these days but it is what gives the most effect, not individual immunity. So many people thinking only about themselves in their decision-making and not the good of all is why we are meme-"doomed." In the past, nearly all people willingly took vaccinations to prevent diseases even though those vaccines had far greater risk of side effects than the modern ones. And, it worked incredibly well. Now, we have very safe vaccines and a disease that is very risky for variation and spread, and many in society are looking only at their individual risk and not societal risk at all.
 
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Fair enough, for you. I don't get flu shots, and haven't had the flu in 15-20 years. Therefore I will not get a yearly covid shot, either. Why would I? I hate shots, especially ones as ineffective as the seasonal flu vaccinations. Why would I take a 40-50% effective vaccine yearly to prevent something I get every 15-20 years?

Perhaps when I'm old and frail I'll consider it, but for now I'm good.
I've always had the same stance on the flu shots. Not really because I don't like getting shots, I just don't mess with it because I haven't had it in forever. But this COVID thing has made me wonder, maybe we all get the flu way more often than we realize and we're just asymptomatic. If it is recommended we get COVID shots annually, I'll probably do it for a couple years just to help the cause, but then stop. I think in a few years it will be about like the flu, everyone will have enough exposure that our bodies will fight it a lot better and it won't be as big of a deal.
 

wrenhal

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Dem play book...
1. If you don't like someone, or their ideas, call them a Racist...If that doesn't work...call them a Racist...if that doesn't work...do it again....it's going to stick at some point and cause a riot to boot.:popcorn::popcorn:

Bottom line...get your shot and trash your mask! IF we all do it we can...
It’s probably all the racist stuff Mr. Chicken Heir said more than anyone calling him racist that makes him racist.
You mean more than Biden? Cause Biden has said some very straight forward racist things. Not even things that have to be edited to make them sound racist.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

CPTNQUIRK

I'm Your Captain!
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I've always had the same stance on the flu shots. Not really because I don't like getting shots, I just don't mess with it because I haven't had it in forever. But this COVID thing has made me wonder, maybe we all get the flu way more often than we realize and we're just asymptomatic. If it is recommended we get COVID shots annually, I'll probably do it for a couple years just to help the cause, but then stop. I think in a few years it will be about like the flu, everyone will have enough exposure that our bodies will fight it a lot better and it won't be as big of a deal.
Until it mutates into something worse.
 

Birry

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I would suspect he is referring to the fact that widespread vaccination is the best way to prevent symptomatic and asymptomatic spread and development of variants that the vaccine will not control.

Vaccines work best when the maximum number of people are vaccinated. "Herd immunity" is thrown around like a buzzword to debate these days but it is what gives the most effect, not individual immunity. So many people thinking only about themselves in their decision-making and not the good of all is why we are meme-"doomed." In the past, nearly all people willingly took vaccinations to prevent diseases even though those vaccines had far greater risk of side effects than the modern ones. And, it worked incredibly well. Now, we have very safe vaccines and a disease that is very risky for variation and spread, and many in society are looking only at their individual risk and not societal risk at all.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I know this is a heated topic, and it's easy to lose site of rational conversations.

I think where it breaks down a bit is the phrase "at all", as if people like me have zero regard for society or something. That's not true. I was among the first to leave the office to work from home full-time, we left our house once per week to go grocery shopping (me, alone, while my wife and child stayed home), and did our part to flatten the curve. We didn't go to church last year, we did two family gatherings the entire time, and were generally ultra cautious with all of it. Wore masks everywhere, etc... All of it. Not because we were worried about catching the virus (we eventually did), but because we wanted to protect the vulnerable. I just started back in the office about three weeks ago, after the vaccine rollout allowed anyone to get it that wanted / needed it.

We are being cautious, in general. Not just for the sake of society, but also for our family. We want to see vaccine effectiveness in the wild for a longer period of time before we will feel comfortable getting a new vaccine.

Ultimately, this is all new. And our job as parents is to do what we feel is best for us. We've made our choices along the way, and are still doing so. Internet forum posters and coworkers aren't responsible for my family. Me and my wife are. We will decide what is best for us, not other people.

Also, are we not going to talk about the responsibility that people have to themselves to not be obese, smoke cigarettes their whole lives, and all the other things that create all these risk factors for covid? Its their responsibility to give themselves insurance of being healthy, not my responsibility to cover for their poor life choices. If you want to be honest about "risk", let's be inclusive. Let's talk about where the risk really lies.
 
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wrenhal

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https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/1392815743142617092


The article did little to explain how winners would be selected. The article states winners would be chosen from the voter registration database. Does that mean to win you also have to be a registered voter....sounds like it? Should I assume that the state is linking the database of vaccinated citizens to its database of voters prior to pulling the winners?
Although I don't care at all who knows I am vaccinated, some people are very private about their health matters ---- I am obviously missing some of the details. Will be interesting to see if they have a surge of people getting vaccinated over the next two weeks.
Are they making sure to require ID to get a vaccine? Because ID is required to vote in Ohio.
And if they are requiring ID to vaccinate, does that make them racist?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

steross

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Mar 31, 2004
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Thanks for the thoughtful response. I know this is a heated topic, and it's easy to lose site of rational conversations.

I think where it breaks down a bit is the assertion the phrase "at all", as if people like me have zero regard for society or something. That's not true. I was among the first to leave the office to work from home full-time, we left our house once per week to go grocery shopping (me, alone, while my wife and child stayed home), and did our part to flatten the curve. We didn't go to church last year, we did two family gatherings the entire time, and were generally ultra cautious with all of it. Wore masks everywhere, etc... All of it. Not because we were worried about catching the virus (we eventually did), but because we wanted to protect the vulnerable. I just started back in the office about three weeks ago, after the vaccine rollout allowed anyone to get it that wanted / needed it.

We are being cautious, in general. Not just for the sake of society, but also for our family. We want to see vaccine effectiveness in the wild for a longer period of time before we will feel comfortable getting a new vaccine.

Ultimately, this is all new. And our job as parents is to do what we feel is best for us. We've made our choices along the way, and are still doing so. Internet forum posters and coworkers aren't responsible for my family. Me and my wife are. We will decide what is best for us, not other people.

Also, are we not going to talk about the responsibility that people have to themselves to not be obese, smoke cigarettes their whole lives, and all the other things that create all these risk factors for covid? Its their responsibility to give themselves insurance of being healthy, not my responsibility to cover for their poor life choices. If you want to be honest about "risk", let's be inclusive. Let's talk about where the risk really lies.
These issues can get too complex for message board posts. I wasn't speaking to the outlook of the person overall with the "at all" part but only in regards to the vaccine decision. Obviously, there are people serving in the military refusing vaccination and it would be false to claim they have no societal concern when they are willingly risking their lives for our protection.

As far as the poor life choices, the only difference is those life choices increase their personal risk, not societal risk. And, while the young think that they will be fine, I am honestly still haunted by some of the young COVID victims gasping for breath. 99% sounds good until you are the one percent. That isn't said to be a scare tactic as the odds are still in the healthy person's favor, but as the witness to the unlucky ones, it is just my honest experience. Just the reality of being a doc that seeing 80-year-olds die is sad, seeing 20-year-olds die haunts you.

From my standpoint, the sooner we get more people vaccinated the better. And viruses don't give a crap about nationality so that is worldwide, not US. Medically, it isn't logical to vaccinate 12-year-olds here when 90% of the world is unvaccinated. But, that is the political reality. So, while I personally advocate everyone that can get it gets it, I am not unrealistic enough to not understand that the edges of the battle plan are mushy.
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Fair enough, for you. I don't get flu shots, and haven't had the flu in 15-20 years. Therefore I will not get a yearly covid shot, either. Why would I? I hate shots, especially ones as ineffective as the seasonal flu vaccinations. Why would I take a 40-50% effective vaccine yearly to prevent something I get every 15-20 years?

Perhaps when I'm old and frail I'll consider it, but for now I'm good.
I really don't care what you do one way or the other.

You asked a question.

I answered it.

The potential effects and results of catching COVID are just a wee little bit more severe than seasonal flu though.

But you, by all means, do you.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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I absolutely love what Ohio is doing to increase their vaccinated. Mostly because it’s giving the anti vax crowd fits. That means it’s a VERY good idea because it’s going to help to kill their political use of the vaccine as bait. I sincerely dislike people, with a voice, of my own political mindset who are so off on this and making others feel same with their stances on it and their attempts to retain power by division on everything...even things like vaccines that we should be together on.