Covid-19

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Dec 16, 2019
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Stillwater
I'm definitely of the opinion the power corrupts, and is often used to abuse, coerce, etc... But it's an insane leap to conflate corruption into some coordinated, nefarious "they". I have a few friends that believe the latter, and it always confuses me how they believe it.

Anyone that has spent any time working in almost any government capacity should automatically know that government is generally so inept that a coordinated effort to do anything is almost laughable. Large-scale, long-term, coordinated, nefarious plots would be statistically impossible. I mean....even the NSA couldn't go under the radar. Nor could JSOC... Not saying that crazy things don't happen (they do), but most of these theories are laughable.
That has been my exact thought on this from the beginning, especially the Qanon stuff. It can be hard enough to coordinate a small group of people, but we are supposed to believe that ALL the democrats are in a sex-trafficking cabal, when the only sex-trafficking we have seen is from the right side so far.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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From the Chicago Tribune.

"Be part of the solution: Do you complain about wearing a mask and social distancing? Then get the vaccine. Do you want to go back to work again? Then get the vaccine. Do you want schools, restaurants, movie theaters, sporting events and concerts to completely open back up again? Then get the vaccine. If you are complaining about any of these things and have not gotten the vaccine, you are part of the problem not the solution."
And always remember we have to be alive to have a problem!
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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Only 64% of people in their 30s see a GP, 18-24 is probably even lower, and has dropped drastically since covid hit, my intuition is that the people we are talking about not having a vaccine at this point are not currently seeing a GP and have no plans to unless they get sick, at which point they will go to an urgent care or the hospital. The vaccine is currently free, open to same day appointments takes about 29 minutes to get and is 95-99% effective and people are passing on it. What does that tell you about the state of the country right now in rural areas. They dont trust the government, doctors, scientists or rich/people corporations, and would rather take their chances with the virus. Pearl clutching, calling them stupid and shame haven't worked, what does the professional managerial class suggest we do next to convince people that the vaccine is in their beat interests?
It's a pretty established marketing principle that putting up ANY barrier to a product, even something as simple as scheduling an appointment to get the shot, will cause a sharp drop in adoption. Once something is offered on top of an existing appointment/product, adoption is widespread.

Real world example happened just this weekend. I give you, Erie County NY. A brewery gave out more first dose injections than the rest of the county vaccination sites combined:

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/...cle_34b5d0d2-b011-11eb-92fd-8b7017585dc1.html
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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Oh I completely agree, as I sit here unable yo get off the couch due to body aches and fever from the vaccine, I am acutely aware that my risk was incredibly low for me as a young healthy person, and the side affects for the vaccine are most likely worse for me that covid would have been or was, i made the choice due to some other considerations but I completely understand their thinking and accept it. However a lot of people out there and on this board dont seem to be able to process how not taking the vaccine might be right for them.
I don't want this to seem crass because you seem like a nice guy - but based on this post and others from various posters, you don't seem to understand how calculating risk works or about epidemiology. It's honestly scary to see otherwise intelligent people take this tack.

Replace the vaccine with flat earth theory in your sentence. "I accept the globe earth theory, but I completely understand the flat earthers thinking and accept it. Others on this board don't seem to be able to process how believing in flat earth is right for some people." I bet if you heard someone say that you'd give them a :blink:.

:blink: is exactly my reaction when otherwise intelligent people like yourself say things like this.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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It's a pretty established marketing principle that putting up ANY barrier to a product, even something as simple as scheduling an appointment to get the shot, will cause a sharp drop in adoption. Once something is offered on top of an existing appointment/product, adoption is widespread.

Real world example happened just this weekend. I give you, Erie County NY. A brewery gave out more first dose injections than the rest of the county vaccination sites combined:

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/...cle_34b5d0d2-b011-11eb-92fd-8b7017585dc1.html
I am pretty sure they would give you the shot if you show up, just have to give your name and drivers license so they can pull your shot records. People aren't getting the shot because they don't want to, not because it is hard to get. there has to be an obvious benefit, and in many places the benefits aren't obvious
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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I am pretty sure they would give you the shot if you show up, just have to give your name and drivers license so they can pull your shot records. People aren't getting the shot because they don't want to, not because it is hard to get. there has to be an obvious benefit, and in many places the benefits aren't obvious
I guess agree to disagree on this point. If I'm understanding, you think the remaining holdouts are all or mostly anti-vax folks. That would put the anti-vax crowd at roughly ~40%, which seems crazy high to me. I think you've got lazy people in there that just don't bother with the appointments, I think the anti-vax makes up 20% max. Long story short for me: the easier it is to get a shot the more people will get them.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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I guess agree to disagree on this point. If I'm understanding, you think the remaining holdouts are all or mostly anti-vax folks. That would put the anti-vax crowd at roughly ~40%, which seems crazy high to me. I think you've got lazy people in there that just don't bother with the appointments, I think the anti-vax makes up 20% max. Long story short for me: the easier it is to get a shot the more people will get them.
Also, as a last add - the longer we go without the vaccinated population experiencing zombification or increased rates of cancer, the more resistance to the vaccine will drop. Had measles vaccine for decades now, only the crazies deny its efficacy and safety.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I don't want this to seem crass because you seem like a nice guy - but based on this post and others from various posters, you don't seem to understand how calculating risk works or about epidemiology. It's honestly scary to see otherwise intelligent people take this tack.

Replace the vaccine with flat earth theory in your sentence. "I accept the globe earth theory, but I completely understand the flat earthers thinking and accept it. Others on this board don't seem to be able to process how believing in flat earth is right for some people." I bet if you heard someone say that you'd give them a :blink:.

:blink: is exactly my reaction when otherwise intelligent people like yourself say things like this.
We aren't talking about flat earth, why should a young healthy person who currently lives in a place that is back to normal already, whose parents and grandparents have either gotten the vaccination or equally see no benefit in the vaccine at this point. We have to give them a reason t do it that benefits them or accept that they will choose not to do it. you apparently don't understand how people calculate risk, which is what we have to address if we want more people to get vaccinated. we have to meet people where they are and give them a reason to get the vaccine
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I guess agree to disagree on this point. If I'm understanding, you think the remaining holdouts are all or mostly anti-vax folks. That would put the anti-vax crowd at roughly ~40%, which seems crazy high to me. I think you've got lazy people in there that just don't bother with the appointments, I think the anti-vax makes up 20% max. Long story short for me: the easier it is to get a shot the more people will get them.
Anti Vax is a little strong to me, most of these people have had every other vaccine, I think trust in institutions are at an all time low.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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Trust in institutions is down because of the last president. The orange colored spray-on tan fool named trump.
And the cultist that worship him.
Only the weak minded are obsessed with former or current Presidents and make up their opinions from POTUS stances on things. Point being...your attempts to paint vaccine hesitancy with only the former POTUS is laughable snd incorrect.
 

TheMonkey

Territorial Marshal
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Sep 16, 2004
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Only the weak minded are obsessed with former or current Presidents and make up their opinions from POTUS stances on things. Point being...your attempts to paint vaccine hesitancy with only the former POTUS is laughable snd incorrect.
This about a year old, but it holds up well:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...ment-has-left-america-vulnerable-to-disaster/

Are you trying to say Trump supporters will now disregard his previous statements simply because he is no longer in office? Or that he held/holds no influence, except with a select few ”weak-minded” individuals?

Either way, that is naive at best.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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btw, if you are fully vaccinated and more than 14 days past shot number 2 you can now travel to Alaska without testing either on the way or upon resturn. If you are not vaccinated you have to test.
 

OSUCowboy787

Territorial Marshal
Dec 31, 2008
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This about a year old, but it holds up well:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...ment-has-left-america-vulnerable-to-disaster/

Are you trying to say Trump supporters will now disregard his previous statements simply because he is no longer in office? Or that he held/holds no influence, except with a select few ”weak-minded” individuals?

Either way, that is naive at best.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/05/kamala-harris-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-409320

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html

Both sides are at fault.
 

TheMonkey

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Sep 16, 2004
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“I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump” on the reliability of a vaccine, Harris said. The California senator, however, added that she would trust a “credible” source who could vouch that a vaccine was safe for Americans to receive.“

Um. She’s literally saying she will trust officials instead of Trump. Democrats have a lot of problems, but this may be the first time I’ve seen someone criticize them for not trusting the government ENOUGH.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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“I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump” on the reliability of a vaccine, Harris said. The California senator, however, added that she would trust a “credible” source who could vouch that a vaccine was safe for Americans to receive.“

Um. She’s literally saying she will trust officials instead of Trump. Democrats have a lot of problems, but this may be the first time I’ve seen someone criticize them for not trusting the government ENOUGH.
The obsession and division over Trump was absurd and not healthy for a society. He is only partially at fault for those who overreacted to him. This is my point regarding the “weak minded.” Bottom line get the vaccine...listen to your doctor and healthcare providers. NOT political “leaders.”
 

TheMonkey

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Sep 16, 2004
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The obsession and division over Trump was absurd and not healthy for a society. He is only partially at fault for those who overreacted to him. This is my point regarding the “weak minded.” Bottom line get the vaccine...listen to your doctor and healthcare providers. NOT political “leaders.”
Just curious... do weak-minded people know they are weak-minded?