Covid-19

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Binman4OSU

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Informative. But I think you are confusing things a bit. They don't have anything to do with our DNA. They are therefore not gene therapy. The investment company article contradicts itself when it cites Mayo Clinics' definition. And the Medium post specifically mentions viral vaccines. You are using the words "gene therapy" because it sounds scary and you are anti-vaccine, IMO.
The FDA defines gene therapy as
Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use 1.
Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease. Gene therapies can work by several mechanisms:
  • Replacing a disease-causing gene with a healthy copy of the gene
  • Inactivating a disease-causing gene that is not functioning properly
  • Introducing a new or modified gene into the body to help treat a disease
I'm not sure how someone could label the COVID Vax as gene therapy. The Vax is not even close to how the FDA defines gene therapy.

For those who like pictures. This is basically how Gene Therapy works

1614280522476.png



And here is what an mRNA vaccine does

How do mRNA COVID-19 vaccines work?
mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response
 
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drbwh

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What are you calling "gene therapy" please?
The mRNA vaccinations are a form of gene therapy, according to its definition in many parts of the world, including Europe. Gene therapies remain under strict regulation and few gene therapeutics have been approved by health authorities because of safety concerns. Some experts are less concerned with the long-term risks of the mRNA vaccines, but more concerned about the efficacy of them, as mRNA is very fragile and if not properly stored, could be destroyed. These molecules can fall apart at room temperature. mRNA is a very fragile molecule, meaning it can be destroyed very easily compared to DNA.


Traditional vaccines revolved around injecting part of the pathogen, such as a protein or sugar, to induce an immune response. The COVID mRNA vaccine partly works by inducing local inflammatory reactions to trigger the immune system. The synthetic mRNA material, wrapped in an oily bubble coating made of lipid nanoparticles, delivers instructions to cells to make spike proteins to fight the virus. When synthetic mRNA enters the human patient, the material fuses to cells and cell’s molecules start to decode the genomic sequence to build the spike proteins. The immune system recognizes the spike protein as a foreign invader and produces antibodies against it. If the antibodies later encounter the actual coronavirus, they are ready to recognize and destroy it before it causes illness. Furthermore, the mRNA in the vaccine degrades in roughly 72 hours in order to not combine with human DNA.


According to the Mayo Clinic website, “Gene therapy involves altering the genes inside your body’s cells in an effort to treat or stop disease.


Genes contain your DNA — the code that controls much of your body’s form and function, from making you grow taller to regulating your body systems. Genes that don’t work properly can cause disease.


Gene therapy replaces a faulty gene or adds a new gene in an attempt to cure disease or improve your body’s ability to fight disease. Gene therapy holds promise for treating a wide range of diseases, such as cancer, cystic fibrosis, heart disease, diabetes, hemophilia and AIDS.”
Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/gene-therapy/about/pac-20384619
Yep, they are not traditional vaccines or inoculations. They work differently. That being said, I wouldn’t call them gene therapy


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Bowers2

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Yep, they are not traditional vaccines or inoculations. They work differently. That being said, I wouldn’t call them gene therapy


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Completely agree. They fit the definition of vaccine (below) much better than anyone defines gene therapy. Except Deere, who is using the phrase because it sounds scary.

a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
 

Duke Silver

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yeah, debating now whether to even get the 2nd dose since I'm reading that side effects are worse for the 2nd one...
Get it. Please. From my not so scientific research, people who have had a big response like you had to the first one, didn’t have as big of a second. I had no reaction to the first one. I had exactly what you described in the second. I agree with the previous poster. It sounds like you had it and your body recognized it with the virus
 

RxCowboy

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Here is another article on it from a few months before COVID. That article was actually from an investment company talking about new technologies and how they are classified around the word.
https://medium.com/swlh/mrna-therapy-a-new-form-of-gene-medicine-5d859dadd1e
It isn't "gene therapy" because it doesn't modify your genes.
 

PF5

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Get it. Please. From my not so scientific research, people who have had a big response like you had to the first one, didn’t have as big of a second. I had no reaction to the first one. I had exactly what you described in the second. I agree with the previous poster. It sounds like you had it and your body recognized it with the virus
Yeah, I am 97% sure I'll get 2nd one, yesterday when I was going through the side effects, I said, heck no, but now that it's passed, I know I need 2nd one...(kind of like the person who says 'I'm never drinking again' while going through hangover, then drinks later that night)...that was a tough 24 hours though...I am praying the 2nd one is more mild like you said.
 

Duke Silver

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Yeah, I am 97% sure I'll get 2nd one, yesterday when I was going through the side effects, I said, heck no, but now that it's passed, I know I need 2nd one...(kind of like the person who says 'I'm never drinking again' while going through hangover, then drinks later that night)...that was a tough 24 hours though...I am praying the 2nd one is more mild like you said.
Good! Even if you have them, they don’t last. Take Tylenol and ibuprofen when you get home
 

RxCowboy

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Here's an interesting tidbit. There are two manufacturers of ivermectin, a Chinese company and Sigma-Aldrich. Sigma-Aldrich is the largest manufacturer in the world and sells to most of the generic houses, none of which actually manufacture the ivermectin. So, following up the corporate chain, who owns Sigma Aldrich.... Merck.
1614382163185.png
 

RxCowboy

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There are two FDA approved oral ivermectin products available in the US, the Merck product and a generic from Edenbridge Pharmaceuticals LLC. Edenbridge Pharm gets its ivermectin from, you guessed it. Sigma Aldrich.

Someone tell again why Merck would try to quash selling their own product? Bueller?
 

drbwh

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There are two FDA approved oral ivermectin products available in the US, the Merck product and a generic from Edenbridge Pharmaceuticals LLC. Edenbridge Pharm gets its ivermectin from, you guessed it. Sigma Aldrich.

Someone tell again why Merck would try to quash selling their own product? Bueller?
Lol, you crack me up. Anyone and everyone CAN manufacture it. So if the demand went way up many companies would simply start making it driving the price down. I’m not sure what you don’t understand about this.
You see it all the time in the generic drug market. When demand goes up lots of companies start making it and it becomes highly available dropping the price. Then those companies move on to the next shiny object. I would think as a pharmacist you would understand this, but when people get into academics or university settings they lose track of the of what happens in the real world.


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RxCowboy

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Lol, you crack me up. Anyone and everyone CAN manufacture it. So if the demand went way up many companies would simply start making it driving the price down. I’m not sure what you don’t understand about this.
You see it all the time in the generic drug market. When demand goes up lots of companies start making it and it becomes highly available dropping the price. Then those companies move on to the next shiny object. I would think as a pharmacist you would understand this, but when people get into academics or university settings they lose track of the of what happens in the real world.


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No, not anyone and everyone CAN manufacture it. You are not understanding the difference between manufacturing the chemical itself and manufacturing the dosage form. No generic manufacturer manufactures the raw chemicals. They buy them from someone else. The generic manufacturers manufacture the dosage forms. There is one, and only one maker of the raw chemical in the US, and that is Sigma-Aldrich, which is owned by Merck. There are two makers of the oral dosage forms in the US, one generic house that gets the raw chemical from Merck, and Merck. All this is verifiable on the FDA web site, if you know where to look.

If every generic house had to manufacture all its own chemicals then prices wouldn't drop much when a drug went generic because every generic house would have to meet all the manufacturing regulatory requirements that Sigma-Aldrich meets already.

I would think as a physician you wouldn't understand this at all because all you know about drugs you've learned from drug reps, which are nothing but trained monkeys who only say what pharma tells them to say.
 
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Legit question-The veterinary use ivermectin; is the active ingredient also manufactured by Merck? I ask because I know several folks dosing themselves with it & was just curious....

*not me, I save that for the bovines! I signed up to get stuck once Phase III opens up.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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I just got my 1st shot. I have been in a lot of lines ..and with companies that know how to make lines efficient (Disney, etc). But I have never been in a more efficient distribution of a line than what they had setup today. It was for Tulsa County teachers and educators - held at Asbury Church.

I imagine many thousands to teachers are getting the vaccine here today and it is unbelievable how well they are running the lines. I showed up for my appointment and had a shot within 4 minutes.

Whoever setup the logistics for this event needs to be commended. Personally I would like to know who because I would like to hire them!
 
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drbwh

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Lol, you crack me up. Anyone and everyone CAN manufacture it. So if the demand went way up many companies would simply start making it driving the price down. I’m not sure what you don’t understand about this.
You see it all the time in the generic drug market. When demand goes up lots of companies start making it and it becomes highly available dropping the price. Then those companies move on to the next shiny object. I would think as a pharmacist you would understand this, but when people get into academics or university settings they lose track of the of what happens in the real world.


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No, not anyone and everyone CAN manufacture it. You are not understanding the difference between manufacturing the chemical itself and manufacturing the dosage form. No generic manufacturer manufactures the raw chemicals. They buy them from someone else. The generic manufacturers manufacture the dosage forms. There is one, and only one maker of the raw chemical in the US, and that is Sigma-Aldrich, which is owned by Merck. There are two makers of the oral dosage forms in the US, one generic house that gets the raw chemical from Merck, and Merck. All this is verifiable on the FDA web site, if you know where to look.

If every generic house had to manufacture all its own chemicals then prices wouldn't drop much when a drug went generic because every generic house would have to meet all the manufacturing regulatory requirements that Sigma-Aldrich meets already.

I would think as a physician you wouldn't understand this at all because all you know about drugs you've learned from drug reps, which are nothing but trained monkeys who only say what pharma tells them to say.
Lol, I have talked to maybe 10 drug reps in 20 years. Good try. Yes, anyone and everyone can make ivermectin.


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