Covid-19

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steross

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So A GOP Senator hears a Rumor from a former NBA player and now that Senator is all bought in on it. Anyone else seen any of these 100-150 professional athletes drop dead in the middle of a game because they were vaccinated ??? WTAF??? :blink::blink::blink::blink::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Former NBA great John Stockton drew national attention earlier this week when he insisted in an interview that "there's 150 I believe now -- it's over 100 professional athletes dead, professional athletes, the prime of their life, dropping dead that are vaccinated, right on the pitch, right on the field, right on the court."

On Wednesday, Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson got in on the action in an interview with Charlie Kirk, the head of the conservative group Turning Point USA.

"We've heard story after story, I mean all these athletes dropping dead on the field," Johnson said. "But we're supposed to ignore that. Nothing happening here. Nothing to see. This is a travesty. This is a scandal."
Johnson's office offered no specifics to back up his claim Thursday. "The senator has been pressing for transparency in government, especially in our federal health agencies, so that the American people have as much information as possible before they make health care decisions for themselves and their families," a spokeswoman said.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/nationa...edium=social&utm_source=twitter_TWSportsExtra
Man, I liked Stockton back when he played but I read that interview and he has sadly gone right off the deep end of fruitloop conspiracy.
 

wrenhal

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Don't know the number, but most of them have been European soccer players that I've seen.

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You've seen European soccer players die on the soccer pitch from the vaccine?
I've seen that they've died or had to quit for heart issues and they were vaccinated. That's all I'm saying. Make a connection or don't. Just stating what I remember reading in some European news service.

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May 4, 2011
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Don't know the number, but most of them have been European soccer players that I've seen.

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Links or it doesn't count. I watch all five major European leagues and follow Americans playing in Europe religiously. I've seen zero reports of deaths, including that no one on any of the two dozen plus teams thay I follow has died. There was one player who went into cardiac arrest at the euro championship and it made headlines for weeks (also had nothing to do with the vaccine). The idea that there is some wave of hundreds or even just dozens of players in any european leagues who are dropping dead and it's not making major headlines is absurdly hard to believe. This seems like one of those garbage claims that can be made here because so few people follow the sport. Why would it be any different there than here? We use mRNA vaccines more than England and those are the ones that have the most conspiracies. Exactly how many NBA and college players have died? How about NFL and CFB?
 
May 4, 2011
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I've seen that they've died or had to quit for heart issues and they were vaccinated. That's all I'm saying. Make a connection or don't. Just stating what I remember reading in some European news service.

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Perhaps you're thinking of ONE player, Christian Eriksen who collapsed at the Euros due to cardiac arrest. He's already signing with a new team after being released from Italy. He's also still hoping to make Denmark's world cup team. So, he neither retired nor died.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ix-month-deal-for-former-tottenham-midfielder

He also had neither COVID nor the vaccine before that happened last summer.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...en-didnt-receive-covid-19-vaccine/7713275002/

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/s...-he-had-no-history-heart-concerns-2021-06-13/
 

steross

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I've seen that they've died or had to quit for heart issues and they were vaccinated. That's all I'm saying. Make a connection or don't. Just stating what I remember reading in some European news service.

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I bet they've all drank beers too and alcohol causes cardiomyopathy. That's all I'm saying. Make the connection or don't.
 

cowboyinexile

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Don't know the number, but most of them have been European soccer players that I've seen.

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No offense but you haven't seen sh!t. I'd like to say there have been a handful of reactions to vaccinations that have killed people but if it were real the media would have reported it.
And if it were real any medical treatment wouldn't have made it to widescale release. If the vaccine was killing hundreds of people it wouldn't have gotten out of a stage one trial. The government hit a pause on the JJ shot because it made people sick. There is no way a covid vaccine went through our level of testing and a years worth if full access only to kill a bunch of people and have the government cover it up.

I'm not calling you out and if you have an article id love to see it but I'm 100% certain whatever you read isn't true.
 
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No offense but you haven't seen sh!t. I'd like to say there have been a handful of reactions to vaccinations that have killed people but if it were real the media would have reported it.
And if it were real any medical treatment wouldn't have made it to widescale release. If the vaccine was killing hundreds of people it wouldn't have gotten out of a stage one trial. The government hit a pause on the JJ shot because it made people sick. There is no way a covid vaccine went through our level of testing and a years worth if full access only to kill a bunch of people and have the government cover it up.

I'm not calling you out and if you have an article id love to see it but I'm 100% certain whatever you read isn't true.
I don’t know if he read/saw it on Facebook but that platform is single-handedly destroying America. A quick google search indicates that that story first appeared in a non European site and quickly spread unchecked through social media. Deep dives proved how bad the data actually was. But some moron or evil intended person links crap like that and it gets spread by someone’s Aunt as gospel and before you know it someone on here says “They seen it somewhere.”

I wish this CoVid thread had the same enforcement policy on misinformation as the sports threads have on rumors. Instead of 1200 pages we might have 100.
 

OranGE-KK

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I was buying brake pads for my truck the other day; in the auto parts store waiting to pay and got to hear the 3 local yokels discussing everything COVID. There were some gems in there, but the quote that stuck out to me...
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY DNA???!!!!"

We
Are
Screwed
 

steross

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I don’t know if he read/saw it on Facebook but that platform is single-handedly destroying America. A quick google search indicates that that story first appeared in a non European site and quickly spread unchecked through social media. Deep dives proved how bad the data actually was. But some moron or evil intended person links crap like that and it gets spread by someone’s Aunt as gospel and before you know it someone on here says “They seen it somewhere.”

I wish this CoVid thread had the same enforcement policy on misinformation as the sports threads have on rumors. Instead of 1200 pages we might have 100.
You should read the link to that John Stockton interview linked above. I know it is now common, but it is incredible that people who should have the knowledge and means to rise above the misinformation can just buy it hook/line/sinker.
 
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Mar 11, 2006
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I wish this CoVid thread had the same enforcement policy on misinformation as the sports threads have on rumors. Instead of 1200 pages we might have 100.
While I am sure we align that there have been looney ideas on vaccines that are downright false and made-up, there have also been policies/statements, that I am certain were designed with best intentions and knowledge at the time, that are now shown to be wrong…or at least inconclusive.

If there was a czar on misinformation in this thread then in addition to enforcement of false or misstated vaccine data and bizarre fears that the vaccine changes your DNA…the czar would need to also enforce the multiple posts that cloth masks work more than just at an extremely minor level, that previous mask mandates can be proven to show decreased cases, and statements that you can’t spread the virus if you are vaccinated.
 
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While I am sure we align that there have been looney ideas on vaccines that are downright false and made-up, there have also been policies/statements, that I am certain were designed with best intentions and knowledge at the time, that are now shown to be wrong…or at least inconclusive.

If there was a czar on misinformation in this thread then in addition to enforcement of false or misstated vaccine data and bizarre fears that the vaccine changes your DNA…the czar would need to also enforce the multiple posts that cloth masks work more than just at an extremely minor level, that previous mask mandates can be proven to show decreased cases, and statements that you can’t spread the virus if you are vaccinated.
Recent studies show that cloth masks in a 1 person infected 1 not scenario protect the non infected for up to 26 minutes of continuous close contact. Combine that w evidence that boosted individuals are protected at around 50% from symptomatic CoVid and a boosted individual w a cloth mask is better than most.

Those same studies in the same one on one scenario show that the blue surgical mask can protect for up to 60 minutes of continuous contact.

Same scenario w N95 or KN95 protect up to 25 hours in continuous contact.
 

steross

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While I am sure we align that there have been looney ideas on vaccines that are downright false and made-up, there have also been policies/statements, that I am certain were designed with best intentions and knowledge at the time, that are now shown to be wrong…or at least inconclusive.

If there was a czar on misinformation in this thread then in addition to enforcement of false or misstated vaccine data and bizarre fears that the vaccine changes your DNA…the czar would need to also enforce the multiple posts that cloth masks work more than just at an extremely minor level, that previous mask mandates can be proven to show decreased cases, and statements that you can’t spread the virus if you are vaccinated.
Completely different.

Like one person saying that the snow falls from the sky is acid and will burn you and comparing that to someone that says that the snow on the roads is slick then waiting until the snow melts and saying that the road is no longer slick so that was the same type of misinformation.

At the time of the alpha variant, the masking of breath with even a cloth mask made an impact. The current omicron virus has become more virulent, making that impact smaller. Not misinformation, changed information.
At the time of initial vaccination, it appeared the risk of spread from a vaccinated person was very unlikely. Again, the virus changed and now while still beneficial, it is less so. Again, changed information, not misinformation.

The vaccine has NEVER affected DNA. That is misinformation. As is drinking urine, etc. Never was true.

Science and medicine changes. Science and medicine will continue to change. The medications that I prescribed for a bacterial skin infection today are not the same as the ones that I prescribed a few years ago because the bacteria change. That is not the same as claiming that magnets or essential oils will fix them.

Changed information being drug up after the fact by those with political axes to grind simply is not the same as misinformation even if you want to make the false and harmful equivocation.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Completely different.

Like one person saying that the snow falls from the sky is acid and will burn you and comparing that to someone that says that the snow on the roads is slick then waiting until the snow melts and saying that the road is no longer slick so that was the same type of misinformation.

At the time of the alpha variant, the masking of breath with even a cloth mask made an impact. The current omicron virus has become more virulent, making that impact smaller. Not misinformation, changed information.
At the time of initial vaccination, it appeared the risk of spread from a vaccinated person was very unlikely. Again, the virus changed and now while still beneficial, it is less so. Again, changed information, not misinformation.

The vaccine has NEVER affected DNA. That is misinformation. As is drinking urine, etc. Never was true.

Science and medicine changes. Science and medicine will continue to change. The medications that I prescribed for a bacterial skin infection today are not the same as the ones that I prescribed a few years ago because the bacteria change. That is not the same as claiming that magnets or essential oils will fix them.

Changed information being drug up after the fact by those with political axes to grind simply is not the same as misinformation even if you want to make the false and harmful equivocation.
No. The low effectiveness of cloth masks and mask mandates is not new information. While I understand and appreciate that some decisions were made in the past as we were learning about the virus to be as cautious as possible, the fact remains earlier statements against cloth masks and mask mandates were NOT disinformation, but were treated as such. This has been debated for awhile and was not disinformation then. Now, most all experts agree cloth masks are mostly facial decorations. However, some still cling to the fact that cloth masks are effective and that stubborn thinking does nothing to help lower cases.

Showing my point, we even have a very recent claim on this board that cloth masks are effective. If we need a board czar enforcing disinformation, those statements would need to be included.

Tulsa Public Schools just reinstituted a mask mandate. Without qualifying that masks need to be at least surgical masks, that mandate is just pointless virtue-signaling. And potentially counter-productive by shifting focus away from getting vaccinated to wearing a mask.
 
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steross

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No. The low effectiveness of cloth masks and mask mandates is not new information. While I understand and appreciate that some decisions were made in the past as we were learning about the virus to be as cautious as possible, the fact remains earlier statements against cloth masks and mask mandates were NOT disinformation, but were treated as such. This has been debated for awhile and was not disinformation then. Now, most all experts agree cloth masks are mostly facial decorations. However, some still cling to the fact that cloth masks are effective and that stubborn thinking does nothing to help lower cases.

Showing my point, we even have a very recent claim on this board that cloth masks are effective. If we need a board czar enforcing disinformation, those statements would need to be included.

Tulsa Public Schools just reinstituted a mask mandate. Without qualifying that masks need to be at least surgical masks, that mandate is just pointless virtue-signaling. And potentially counter-productive by shifting focus away from getting vaccinated to wearing a mask.
I am 100% certain that the mRNA vaccine in no way affects the DNA of a human. There is NO evidence it happens. Are you saying that there is NO evidence that wearing a cloth mask can be of benefit to the wearer or people that are in contact with the wearer? Low effectiveness is not no effectiveness. No, I have not seen a single real expert call a cloth mask a facial decoration. They aren't recommending no mask, they are recommending improved masks.

Misinformation is false information. Wearing a cloth mask appears to be of less benefit than in the past. There is NO data showing that it cannot be of any benefit. It is not false information. Choosing to wear/mandate surgical, cloth, N95, or no mask is simply opinion based on data. None of it is misinformation.

A claim of benefit with supporting data even showing minimal effectiveness does not show your point at all. It, in fact, nullifies it.

There is a massive difference between spreading a falsehood and having a difference of opinion on the usefulness of doing something that could have some benefit. I am quite confident that if everyone put on full protective gear including a helmet like a motocross racer wears every time we get in a car that would decrease the death rate from auto accidents. But, it would be a valid opinion to say the benefit gained isn't worth mandating that. Neither opinion is misinformation, it is a simple difference of opinion.

And, I know from past experience with you that no matter how many ways I show your false equivalency to be wrong, you will never give up. I'm not defending every silly mandate, policy, or action. I'm trying to show the difference between information change and opinion on benefit versus unequivocally false information. I doubt you will see it or if you do, acknowledge it. So, I've said all I am gonna say.
 
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I am 100% certain that the mRNA vaccine in no way affects the DNA of a human. There is NO evidence it happens. Are you saying that there is NO evidence that wearing a cloth mask can be of benefit to the wearer or people that are in contact with the wearer? Low effectiveness is not no effectiveness. No, I have not seen a single real expert call a cloth mask a facial decoration. They aren't recommending no mask, they are recommending improved masks.

Misinformation is false information. Wearing a cloth mask appears to be of less benefit than in the past. There is NO data showing that it cannot be of any benefit. It is not false information. Choosing to wear/mandate surgical, cloth, N95, or no mask is simply opinion based on data. None of it is misinformation.

A claim of benefit with supporting data even showing minimal effectiveness does not show your point at all. It, in fact, nullifies it.

There is a massive difference between spreading a falsehood and having a difference of opinion on the usefulness of doing something that could have some benefit. I am quite confident that if everyone put on full protective gear including a helmet like a motocross racer wears every time we get in a car that would decrease the death rate from auto accidents. But, it would be a valid opinion to say the benefit gained isn't worth mandating that. Neither opinion is misinformation, it is a simple difference of opinion.

And, I know from past experience with you that no matter how many ways I show your false equivalency to be wrong, you will never give up. I'm not defending every silly mandate, policy, or action. I'm trying to show the difference between information change and opinion on benefit versus unequivocally false information. I doubt you will see it or if you do, acknowledge it. So, I've said all I am gonna say.
Adding to your point. These would have been largely cloth masks.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7727605/

Changing evidence around medium and small effects is not the same as making up ridiculous crap, like that several European soccer players died or had to retire due to cardiovascular disease after getting vaccinated.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Low effectiveness is not no effectiveness. No, I have not seen a single real expert call a cloth mask a facial decoration. They aren't recommending no mask, they are recommending improved masks.
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There have been several medical experts that have pointed out that cloth masks are not effective. And at least one that used the term "facial decoration".
From former Harvard faculty member, former Planned Parenthood President, former Commissioner of Baltimore Health Department, and CNN and WaPo medical analyst, (her resume seems like a real expert to me) Dr. Leanna Wen: "Don't wear a cloth mask. Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of omicron,."

You are correct her statement is absolutely recommending improved masks. However, we CONTINUE to see, not only from posters on this thread, but government officials pushing cloth masks and/or mask mandates without requirement for improved masks.

I 100% agree that false vaccine rumors are not good and have no debate that vaccine refusal and the push against it is extremely harmful and the largest reason we are still in the pandemic. But instead of acknowledging that past statements from people pointing out that cloth masks, and their mandates were an ineffective weapon against COVID --- you seem to just want to go with the tried and true "that's different" argument.
And I would agree with you that is different. One is worse than the other --- but both are bad information -- and repeating bad information is simply ignoring data and reality.
 
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There have been several medical experts that have pointed out that cloth masks are not effective. And at least one that used the term "facial decoration".
From former Harvard faculty member, former Planned Parenthood President, former Commissioner of Baltimore Health Department, and CNN and WaPo medical analyst, (her resume seems like a real expert to me) Dr. Leanna Wen: "Don't wear a cloth mask. Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of omicron,."

You are correct her statement is absolutely recommending improved masks. However, we CONTINUE to see, not only from posters on this thread, but government officials pushing cloth masks and/or mask mandates without requirement for improved masks.

I 100% agree that false vaccine rumors are not good and have no debate that vaccine refusal and the push against it is extremely harmful and the largest reason we are still in the pandemic. But instead of acknowledging that past statements from people pointing out that cloth masks, and their mandates were an ineffective weapon against COVID --- you seem to just want to go with the tried and true "that's different" argument.
And I would agree with you that is different. One is worse than the other --- but both are bad information -- and repeating bad information is simply ignoring data and reality.
You will find the answer in what you just typed. Past statements regarding effectiveness of masks is correct and consistent w the Drs words you quoted. Finish his sentence. “There is no place for them in light of omicron.” Omicron changed everything and it’s only 2 months old. Masks and mask mandates if consistently applied and adhered to work. No amount of you denying won’t change science and data. But as someone else’s previously pointed out, this won’t dissuade you from being correct in your own mind.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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You will find the answer in what you just typed. Past statements regarding effectiveness of masks is correct and consistent w the Drs words you quoted. Finish his sentence. “There is no place for them in light of omicron.” Omicron changed everything and it’s only 2 months old. Masks and mask mandates if consistently applied and adhered to work. No amount of you denying won’t change science and data. But as someone else’s previously pointed out, this won’t dissuade you from being correct in your own mind.
And data and facts are apparently not changing your claims.

We have science-deniers and data-deniers — oddly from two vastly different parts of the COVID-stance spectrum. Luckily much of the middle listens to both and is concerned with both. As more people pay attention to data, hopefully we will see the end of near-pointless mask mandates that allow cloth masks (a la Tulsa Public School mandate implemented just last week).
 
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