Covid-19

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Dec 9, 2013
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According to the hospital I work with/at, the vaccines still provide us the best protection from being hospitalized. This is/was the primary reason to get the shot, not to keep from getting the virus but by the vaccine teaching our bodies how to deal with it when we do get it. IMHO, we are ALL going to get OR have already had it at some point...IMHO, the likelihood of you being hospitalized with the vaccine is very low.

As of last Monday, we had 109 in patients with Covid, of those only 21 had the vaccine...of the 13 in ICU NONE of them had the vaccine. It is what it is, but it appears to me that the vaccine works. The number will be updated on Monday, but in our hospital, I've yet to see a reported case of someone in our ICU with the vaccine...I'm sure it's happened, but I've not seen it reported in our hospital anyway.

Does ok weed help...does Xanax help...does ivermectin help...do vitamins help? All may help, but I don't think we have a study that shows they help nearly as much as the vaccine in keeping people out of the hospital. Which has always been our goal, to keep the burden on our healthcare system low thus preventing death by covid and other things.

I do not believe in forced vaccination, but my message hasn't changed...go get your shot and stay out of the hospital...IF we get the virus fight the symptoms with known things that work...Ask your doctor what those things are...But bottom line, if you are vaccinated you don't have to stress nearly as much as someone who is not, because your covid experience (IMHO, we are all going to have or have had one) will be much more mild. It is what it is. At some point we are going to need to start treating covid like all the other things we deal with in health care...I'm hopeful that point is coming right after this current wave of Omicron.
Hopefully it won’t take long for insurance companies to treat the unvaccinated like they do smokers. You don’t want to get vaccinated and boosted. Good on you. Here’s your quadrupled (or whatever multiple) premium. Same for businesses who pay part of their employees health insurance. Something has to give. You can now graphically see the waves. Every 2.5 to 3 months. Our healthcare system, education system and even economy can’t continue this.

Rack, as someone working in this environment everyday I’d be curious if you have access to someone who could tell you what the average costs of a hospital stay is for someone w CoVid. Could they separate that by icu vs regular bed? At some point all of our premiums are going to skyrocket because we are all sharing the costs of those that refuse to vaccinate.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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Hopefully it won’t take long for insurance companies to treat the unvaccinated like they do smokers. You don’t want to get vaccinated and boosted. Good on you. Here’s your quadrupled (or whatever multiple) premium. Same for businesses who pay part of their employees health insurance. Something has to give. You can now graphically see the waves. Every 2.5 to 3 months. Our healthcare system, education system and even economy can’t continue this.

Rack, as someone working in this environment everyday I’d be curious if you have access to someone who could tell you what the average costs of a hospital stay is for someone w CoVid. Could they separate that by icu vs regular bed? At some point all of our premiums are going to skyrocket because we are all sharing the costs of those that refuse to vaccinate.
As someone who believes everyone has a right to their opinion and their own actions it's hard for me to blame the unvaccinated for their fate...I'm not even sure they have extended the pandemic, because places like Israel still had a massive Omicron wave despite their extremely high vax rate. What I do understand, however, is that the data out of Israel and Europe is showing far less life loss due to their high vax rates..this is my issue in wanting people to get vaccinated...BUT not by force but out of love and desire that they not end up in the hospital or die with this seemingly preventable outcome.

This is where I see issues. I understand that the un=vaxed can still argue and have some points, that many/most of the unvaccinated won't be hospitalized when they get the virus because every single body is different and if they are taking other precautions that "may" help them...people in good shape or heath, may have natural immunity, are taking vitamin D and keeping active "may" have no major trouble with covid as long as they treat symptoms in conjunction with their doctor...So, I'm not ready to ask insurers to punish people for their personal choices on only the vaccine as the end all be all. However, if insurers decide to do that based on a business decision regarding something that seem preventable, like hospitalization, as long as exceptions are made for common sense medical reasons that someone may not have gotten the vaccine or delayed their vaccine, then I'm fine with that.

As far as the average cost I do have access to someone I could ask...I may do that next week or after we slow down a bit. Despite the difference in vax rates, I do want us, in healthcare, to treat everyone the same...it is our mission to save life and that requires that we don't discriminate based on anything, including vax status. I say all this as someone who thinks vaccines are very important in preventing hospitalizations, but also as someone who cares about life more than vaccine status.
 
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Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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The more the push the more the more the resistance.

I decided to google search just that phrase and this popped up from August.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...inues-resistance-to-mandates-grows/ar-AANnTUt
This is it right here.

The pandemic has been used as a political weapon, mostly by the Democrats. Trump as president both Biden and Harris openly stated they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and therefore you should vote for them. Now as President Biden want's to force people to get the same vaccine. When was he lying?

You see many on the left who want to restrict people from jobs and health care if they are not vaccinated. I wonder are these the same people who told us health care was a right?
 
Dec 9, 2013
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I think we are in quite a bit of agreement. My point is this. Data says that unvaxxed are going to the hospital more than vaxxed. Your data alone says at almost 4x the rate for hospitalizations and 100% in icu. At the end of the day who is paying for this? Insurance companies at a large degree. Where do insurance companies make back those payouts? They increase premiums on all of us.

The vaccinated are going to bear a share of the higher premiums and higher deductibles. And we all are for those on Medicare/Medicaid.

Rs around the country clamor for freedom, personal choice, personal accountability. Every conservative around this country should be barking mad at what the unvaxxed are doing to our health insurance, our health care system and our educational system. Let alone they are going to drive up costs for all of us.

Im not debating you or calling you out. You are someone I recognize on here who works in the system and sees what is going on. You acknowledge what the problem is.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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This is it right here.

The pandemic has been used as a political weapon, mostly by the Democrats. Trump as president both Biden and Harris openly stated they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and therefore you should vote for them. Now as President Biden want's to force people to get the same vaccine. When was he lying?

You see many on the left who want to restrict people from jobs and health care if they are not vaccinated. I wonder are these the same people who told us health care was a right?
Why was trump lying when he said we’d soon be at zero?
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
26,878
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This is it right here.

The pandemic has been used as a political weapon, mostly by the Democrats. Trump as president both Biden and Harris openly stated they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and therefore you should vote for them. Now as President Biden want's to force people to get the same vaccine. When was he lying?

You see many on the left who want to restrict people from jobs and health care if they are not vaccinated. I wonder are these the same people who told us health care was a right?
I think people on all sides of things, reasonable people, mostly completely understand we have had VERY poor leadership out of both ends of politics...Until we LEARN to be more centrist and loving in our politics...we are doomed to horrible leadership. The more the countries media divides us by their never-ending rhetoric against the other side...the less likely it is for us to be a successful and healthy America. The only thing we can do as individuals is to stop being so partisan and stop listening to or watching the partisan garbage the media is feeding the masses. It's national poison.
 

llcoolw

Territorial Marshal
Feb 7, 2005
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Sammamish, Washington.Dallas, Texas.Maui, Hawaii
This is it right here.

The pandemic has been used as a political weapon, mostly by the Democrats. Trump as president both Biden and Harris openly stated they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and therefore you should vote for them. Now as President Biden want's to force people to get the same vaccine. When was he lying?

You see many on the left who want to restrict people from jobs and health care if they are not vaccinated. I wonder are these the same people who told us health care was a right?
Brother, I see abuse of power everywhere. I wish I could point out the major force contributor here but it seems all of our political leadership moral standing is lying down.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
26,878
11,113
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Earth
I think we are in quite a bit of agreement. My point is this. Data says that unvaxxed are going to the hospital more than vaxxed. Your data alone says at almost 4x the rate for hospitalizations and 100% in icu. At the end of the day who is paying for this? Insurance companies at a large degree. Where do insurance companies make back those payouts? They increase premiums on all of us.

The vaccinated are going to bear a share of the higher premiums and higher deductibles. And we all are for those on Medicare/Medicaid.

Rs around the country clamor for freedom, personal choice, personal accountability. Every conservative around this country should be barking mad at what the unvaxxed are doing to our health insurance, our health care system and our educational system. Let alone they are going to drive up costs for all of us.

Im not debating you or calling you out. You are someone I recognize on here who works in the system and sees what is going on. You acknowledge what the problem is.
Being "barking mad" doesn't accomplish what we all want...a healthy America. What accomplishes that is people being calm and doing the right thing...Our problems politically are trickling down into all areas of life, this SHOULD BE the main issue of our next President...We NEED a real leader, a true non-partisan who points out the fact that neither side is to blame, but the division of the American people is to blame. How we need someone to lead like that...Leadership based on forgiveness and love..then policy after that. The manipulation of the American mind by divisive media into being "barking mad" is the enemy of us all.
 
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Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
So how in the heck will this help our kids ?? The whole idea of keeping schools open was so our kids wouldn't fall behind......but using constant subs and now city employees to fill in for a job they have no idea how to do will somehow help our kids ??

When you get to a point where your making ignorant moves JUST for the sake of saying "hey we're open" ...just stop

https://twitter.com/KTULNews/status/1482926174833721344?t=nfS5DvO2S6sDy2IAyD1afw&s=19
 
Mar 11, 2006
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So how in the heck will this help our kids ?? The whole idea of keeping schools open was so our kids wouldn't fall behind......but using constant subs and now city employees to fill in for a job they have no idea how to do will somehow help our kids ??

When you get to a point where your making ignorant moves JUST for the sake of saying "hey we're open" ...just stop

https://twitter.com/KTULNews/status/1482926174833721344?t=nfS5DvO2S6sDy2IAyD1afw&s=19
Did you read the article? They are authorizing using city employees to fill in for bus drivers, cafeteria workers, bus mechanics, maintenance workers, and cleaning crews at the schools. This should be applauded not ridiculed.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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Brother, I see abuse of power everywhere. I wish I could point out the major force contributor here but it seems all of our political leadership moral standing is lying down.
We've created a system of career politicians whose only focus it seems is re-election. And those running the system also write our laws.

We need term limits.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
54,499
18,174
1,743
Brother, I see abuse of power everywhere. I wish I could point out the major force contributor here but it seems all of our political leadership moral standing is lying down.
There is near zero accountability in government. The only accountability is an election and frankly we aren't very good at electing good leadership.
 

llcoolw

Territorial Marshal
Feb 7, 2005
8,838
3,869
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Sammamish, Washington.Dallas, Texas.Maui, Hawaii
There is near zero accountability in government. The only accountability is an election and frankly we aren't very good at electing good leadership.
At first, I didn’t like the following of politicians to restaurants and shopping etc. Screaming abuse at them and videoing them. I’ve completely changed my mind. This should be mandatory.
 

Boomer.....

Territorial Marshal
Feb 15, 2007
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OKC
Welp.

4th vaccine shot less effective against omicron, Israeli study finds

The increase in antibodies produced by a fourth shot of COVID-19 vaccine is not enough to prevent infections from the omicron variant, according to preliminary research at an Israeli hospital.

The results, revealed Monday, bring into question the practice of giving a second booster dose when large parts of the world are facing a shortage of vaccines, although it still has some defenders.

In the clinical trial, 274 medical workers at Sheba Hospital near Tel Aviv received a fourth dose in December – 154 got the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and the rest Moderna's – after previously being inoculated with three Pfizer-BioNTech shots.

Both groups showed the boost in antibodies was “slightly higher” than after the third vaccine last year, but that did not prevent the spread of omicron, which is now raging in the U.S. and much of the world.

“Despite increased antibody levels, the fourth vaccine only offers a partial defense against the virus,” said Dr. Gili Regev-Yochay, director of the hospital’s infection disease unit. “The vaccines, which were more effective against previous variants, offer less protection versus omicron.”

The Israeli government says more than 500,000 people have received fourth doses since it started offering them to those age 60 and older weeks ago, and yet the country has endured an outbreak that has caused a record-setting number of cases and rising hospitalizations.
 

wrenhal

Federal Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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There is near zero accountability in government. The only accountability is an election and frankly we aren't very good at electing good leadership.
At first, I didn’t like the following of politicians to restaurants and shopping etc. Screaming abuse at them and videoing them. I’ve completely changed my mind. This should be mandatory.
The reason I don't like this, is that it doesn't only "punish" the politician. You are also disrupting the outings of regular people. These aren't even necessarily people affected by that politician. They could be visitors to the city even.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
May 4, 2011
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Little heavy handed there doc....geeesh

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1483227906511880197?t=BdZb-0AEH3Poe8Y8_hT11A&s=19
Yes, though he's not entirely wrong. If city employees who perform other functions are driving school buses, then they aren't doing their normal jobs, just as one example. That's a breakdown of infrastructure, even if its largely tolerable for a hopefully brief period. That said, we're probably at the peak of that nationally given the slowing of new case growth and the new CDC guidance. Highly unlikely it will get much worse, which is where I'd disagree with him. Also, I think his main point was trying to defend the 5 day quarantine guidance to an ultra liberal audience that heavily wants a two week quarantine. A two week quarantine would be fairly catastrophic for infrastructure right now given that about 30% or more of our population will get or have gotten this thing within a 3 or 4 week period.