Covid-19

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RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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Closer to Stillwater today than I was last year
I guess it depends on how far we go and how well it's done. Prior to Obamacare, it was much more affordable and we did not have to offer it to our entry level, unskilled employees health insurance. We have so much turnover at the bottom just because that's the nature of those jobs. And those guys don't want it. This is the issue with government regulations sometimes. They give a one size fits all policy and not all businesses are the same. Our current government structures incentivizes us to keep our bottom people part time, but that won't work for what we do.

We do a scale of where we pay for a percentage to start, and then if they are with us for long enough, then we pay the full amount. When it became mandated, it hurt us with our labor force. Because believe it or not, many of them didn't want the health insurance, because they had to pay the small percent that was forced to come out of their check unless they could provide that they were getting coverage from elsewhere. Unfortunately, other companies in our industry in our area, were skirting the rules in other ways (mostly trying to count all their employees as their own subcontract labor). We play by the rules, and it costs us some good people and some bad people I guess.

As far as our insurance goes, we have more than just healthcare costs. We have high liability and work comp rates due to the nature of our work. So we pay a great deal. We have considered taking that money and putting it in fund, becoming self-insured in all 3 areas. It's something we visit with our insurance partner about. We just don't feel we have that type of capitol yet being as small as we are to cover something catastrophic. We have a great deal of equipment that is nearly paid off, and then we can give it greater consideration. We are a small business.

I'm not against National Health Care system if I had faith in the leaders running it. Most things government run are not run well. And the reality is, we will have to pay for it one way or the other. We pay for it how we do now, or our taxes will have to increase in order to pay for the national healthcare system. Nothing is free. From my first experience, our costs went up with government health care. My other concern for national healthcare system would be like moments we are in now. The government making more and more mandates and using healthcare as it's carrot. That would be dangerous as well. Our freedoms get limited the more government control you give. I generally believe in self-responsibility. It's one of the reasons I have spent another portion of my life coaching and doing youth activities to try and educate kids on the principles of being successful.
You are paying for insurance on the exchanges?
 
This whole deal with the aviation employees and the mandate is going to be interesting to watch. We’ve already seen how much turmoil can be caused last weekend. If they fire everyone on November 25 it’s not like they can go to express personnel and replace them the next day. The pilots, flight attendants and A&P mechanics have to know this and know they have the power on their side.
Issuing a mandate and saying you’ll fire everyone who doesn’t comply sounds easy, but in reality it’s not. Especially with this kind of specialized careers. Are they going to bring in the national guard to replace these people also?
 
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RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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Closer to Stillwater today than I was last year
From https://news.delta.com/bastian-memo-employees-outlines-covid-vaccine-updates

  • Beginning Nov. 1, unvaccinated employees enrolled in Delta’s account-based healthcare plan will be subject to a $200 monthly surcharge. The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person. This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated.
This is what I have been saying. Delta is a self-insured company, which means they pay the healthcare costs and use a company like BCBS to administer the plan for them. It is cheaper to mandate the vaccine, even if it means losing some employees, than to pay hospital bills for "natural immunity".
 

steross

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I guess it depends on how far we go and how well it's done. Prior to Obamacare, it was much more affordable and we did not have to offer it to our entry level, unskilled employees health insurance. We have so much turnover at the bottom just because that's the nature of those jobs. And those guys don't want it. This is the issue with government regulations sometimes. They give a one size fits all policy and not all businesses are the same. Our current government structures incentivizes us to keep our bottom people part time, but that won't work for what we do.

We do a scale of where we pay for a percentage to start, and then if they are with us for long enough, then we pay the full amount. When it became mandated, it hurt us with our labor force. Because believe it or not, many of them didn't want the health insurance, because they had to pay the small percent that was forced to come out of their check unless they could provide that they were getting coverage from elsewhere. Unfortunately, other companies in our industry in our area, were skirting the rules in other ways (mostly trying to count all their employees as their own subcontract labor). We play by the rules, and it costs us some good people and some bad people I guess.

As far as our insurance goes, we have more than just healthcare costs. We have high liability and work comp rates due to the nature of our work. So we pay a great deal. We have considered taking that money and putting it in fund, becoming self-insured in all 3 areas. It's something we visit with our insurance partner about. We just don't feel we have that type of capitol yet being as small as we are to cover something catastrophic. We have a great deal of equipment that is nearly paid off, and then we can give it greater consideration. We are a small business.

I'm not against National Health Care system if I had faith in the leaders running it. Most things government run are not run well. And the reality is, we will have to pay for it one way or the other. We pay for it how we do now, or our taxes will have to increase in order to pay for the national healthcare system. Nothing is free. From my first experience, our costs went up with government health care. My other concern for national healthcare system would be like moments we are in now. The government making more and more mandates and using healthcare as it's carrot. That would be dangerous as well. Our freedoms get limited the more government control you give. I generally believe in self-responsibility. It's one of the reasons I have spent another portion of my life coaching and doing youth activities to try and educate kids on the principles of being successful.
I think the issue isn't "government" but our government. We really need to reform how and who we put into office and what their incentives are.

My experience is that I worked in a public health care system for 8 years. It was far from perfect. But, it functioned far better than our system, for A LOT less money. I agree that I don't necessarily trust our government to do it because they are more beholden to special interests than people. But, after going over there expecting horror stories like we all hear, my experience was completely different. And, the economic benefit of employers not having to worry about health care has to be huge.
 

kaboy42

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From https://news.delta.com/bastian-memo-employees-outlines-covid-vaccine-updates

  • Beginning Nov. 1, unvaccinated employees enrolled in Delta’s account-based healthcare plan will be subject to a $200 monthly surcharge. The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person. This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated.
This is what I have been saying. Delta is a self-insured company, which means they pay the healthcare costs and use a company like BCBS to administer the plan for them. It is cheaper to mandate the vaccine, even if it means losing some employees, than to pay hospital bills for "natural immunity".
Might be a stupid question… but why are companies penalizing instead of incentivizing their vax mandates?

Why instead of “taxing” employees to comply or else, why don’t they do “hey, get your vax and get 8 extra hours of paid leave”?
 

oks10

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Might be a stupid question… but why are companies penalizing instead of incentivizing their vax mandates?

Why instead of “taxing” employees to comply or else, why don’t they do “hey, get your vax and get 8 extra hours of paid leave”?
Because generally people don't care enough about things to take any action until it starts to negatively impact them.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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Nov 8, 2004
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Closer to Stillwater today than I was last year
From https://news.delta.com/bastian-memo-employees-outlines-covid-vaccine-updates

  • Beginning Nov. 1, unvaccinated employees enrolled in Delta’s account-based healthcare plan will be subject to a $200 monthly surcharge. The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person. This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated.
This is what I have been saying. Delta is a self-insured company, which means they pay the healthcare costs and use a company like BCBS to administer the plan for them. It is cheaper to mandate the vaccine, even if it means losing some employees, than to pay hospital bills for "natural immunity".
Might be a stupid question… but why are companies penalizing instead of incentivizing their vax mandates?

Why instead of “taxing” employees to comply or else, why don’t they do “hey, get your vax and get 8 extra hours of paid leave”?
Ah, the carrot vs the stick. I have no answer.

sent from Tapatalk penalized by wearing a mask
 
Nov 23, 2010
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Might be a stupid question… but why are companies penalizing instead of incentivizing their vax mandates?

Why instead of “taxing” employees to comply or else, why don’t they do “hey, get your vax and get 8 extra hours of paid leave”?
Companies are offering incentives. A month ago Southwest was giving "16 hours of pay, though flight attendants and pilots will receive pay for 13 trip segments."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/sou...19-vaccine-incentives-to-staff-extra-pay.html

But now, with the threat of losing contracts, they are going to the stick.
 

Boomer.....

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Curious as to why the government doesn't make it mandatory for illegal immigrants to get vaccinated before entering the US. You could give them all J&J (one dose) because you know they would not show up for a second. They are mandating vaccinations for much of the population, but turning a blind eye at the border.

As legal travelers across US-Mexico border face vaccine mandate, illegal immigrants still do not

The Biden administration this week announced that the travel restrictions at the Canadian and Mexican land borders will be rolled back for non-essential travel for vaccinated foreign nationals, and that in January even those engaged in essential travel will need to be vaccinated – a mandate that those entering the U.S. illegally do not face.

Non-essential travel across land borders had been shut down since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic under the Trump administration. But this week, the Biden administration announced that non-essential travelers who have been fully vaccinated will be allowed to enter the U.S. via land and ferry ports of entry.

In November, travelers who are vaccinated will be allowed in for non-essential reasons. Then, beginning in January, DHS will require that all inbound foreign national travelers be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and provide documentation to prove that.

However, that demand will not be made of illegal migrants who are encountered at the border, processed and released into the interior -- even as the Border Patrol agents processing them will also soon face a vaccine mandate.

However, that demand will not be made of illegal migrants who are encountered at the border, processed and released into the interior -- even as the Border Patrol agents processing them will also soon face a vaccine mandate.

While many single adults and some migrant families are quickly expelled due to Title 42 public health protections, many are not -- including a majority of migrant family units. Fox News reported this week that more than 160,000 migrants have been released into the interior, including more than 94,000 with Notices to Report to an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility. None of them faced a demand to be vaccinated.