Covid-19

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Feb 11, 2007
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Natural immunity might be roughly equal at preventing subsequent infections, but it is obviously vastly inferior at preventing sequelae. From NEJM:


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This is an exstemely important graph to study out of the NEJM...that compares vaccinated persons (and possible side effects) with those who are infected with the virus. Clearly it shows it is better to get the vaccine.
Too many people are afraid of possible side effects from the vaccine.
 
Sep 12, 2008
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Hybrid Immunity/Super Immunity..

"With the FDA gearing up to decide if all Americans need booster shots, some researchers are pointing to preliminary data suggesting that mixing different vaccines could offer an even stronger immune boost.

For now, data is too sparse to support a mix-and-match strategy, experts say. But scientists are learning more about just how strong the immune response can be for someone who has previously been infected with COVID-19 then gets the vaccine -- a phenomenon called "hybrid immunity.""

You just gotta survive the initial infection to get to this point..

Anyone going to mix and match their booster shots?
 
May 4, 2011
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Hybrid Immunity/Super Immunity..

"With the FDA gearing up to decide if all Americans need booster shots, some researchers are pointing to preliminary data suggesting that mixing different vaccines could offer an even stronger immune boost.

For now, data is too sparse to support a mix-and-match strategy, experts say. But scientists are learning more about just how strong the immune response can be for someone who has previously been infected with COVID-19 then gets the vaccine -- a phenomenon called "hybrid immunity.""

You just gotta survive the initial infection to get to this point..

Anyone going to mix and match their booster shots?
Maybe, but there will be enough initial rush on them that I'll likely take what's available of the mRNA vaccines. In my case, that probably means more pfizer.
 
Jun 14, 2011
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Hybrid Immunity/Super Immunity..

"With the FDA gearing up to decide if all Americans need booster shots, some researchers are pointing to preliminary data suggesting that mixing different vaccines could offer an even stronger immune boost.

For now, data is too sparse to support a mix-and-match strategy, experts say. But scientists are learning more about just how strong the immune response can be for someone who has previously been infected with COVID-19 then gets the vaccine -- a phenomenon called "hybrid immunity.""

You just gotta survive the initial infection to get to this point..

Anyone going to mix and match their booster shots?
If possible, yes. Source, married to a pharmacist who has been keeping a close eye on available studies.

Thank your local pharmacist when you next see them. Already overworked before the pandemic, they are being slammed with nonstop vaccine distribution on top of their normal workload. Thanks @RxCowboy and thanks to the other medical professionals (@steross, @docjoctoo, etc.) out there working the butts off amidst these trying times.
 

RxCowboy

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Nov 8, 2004
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Hybrid Immunity/Super Immunity..

"With the FDA gearing up to decide if all Americans need booster shots, some researchers are pointing to preliminary data suggesting that mixing different vaccines could offer an even stronger immune boost.

For now, data is too sparse to support a mix-and-match strategy, experts say. But scientists are learning more about just how strong the immune response can be for someone who has previously been infected with COVID-19 then gets the vaccine -- a phenomenon called "hybrid immunity.""

You just gotta survive the initial infection to get to this point..

Anyone going to mix and match their booster shots?
If possible, yes. Source, married to a pharmacist who has been keeping a close eye on available studies.

Thank your local pharmacist when you next see them. Already overworked before the pandemic, they are being slammed with nonstop vaccine distribution on top of their normal workload. Thanks @RxCowboy and thanks to the other medical professionals (@steross, @docjoctoo, etc.) out there working the butts off amidst these trying times.
Thanks, but I am on the periphery in a family medicine clinic. You are right about pharmacists and techs, though. They are worn out.

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kenny41

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Aug 28, 2006
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A reminder....for extensive accurate disucssion regarding this virus go to nejm.org (New England Journal of Medicine). Its regularly updated and free for non subscribers.
What about a source some YouTube guy showed that’s in a foreign language and is aligned with my own confirmation bias?
 

RxCowboy

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Yeah it’s a good breakdown, but based on time alone those I wouldn’t think those affects can be long term side effects. Wouldn’t those just be immediate effects/reactions to the vaccine? My wording might be wrong but I’m thinking of affects that we find down the line, not an immediate reaction that you’ll have to deal with long term.
The thing is, it would be a first. The way vaccines elicit an immune response just does not seem to cause long-term (late arriving) issues. I suppose for the mRNA vaccines that are a different mechanism than prior vaccines theoretically it could happen. But, even that would be odd because it is using your own muscle to make a protein for 48-72 hours then the mRNA breaks down, as does the protein. The mechanism for a long-term side effect would be very strange indeed. Like blaming the old bologna you ate from the frig when you were in high school for a bowel problem that developed after you got married. Just isn't really a good rationale for it to happen.
I can still blame my ex wives, right?

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RxCowboy

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Not a political question for our med experts. Why does immunity wane from the vaccine/natural infection for COVID? The only other vaccine I can think of that requires multiple injections throughout your life is TB (not counting the flu which I've always been told isn't because immunity wanes but because the flu virus mutates).
1. There isn't a TB vaccine. What you get annually is a skin test to see if you have been exposed or infected.
2. Immunity from flu vaccines wanes over time. This can happen with other vaccines. That's why we give boosters for tetanus and measles.
3. The experience of waning hasn't been duplicated in other surveys, including in Israel. We don't know why they saw that in their early vaccinations.

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From WSJ just now:

Many panel members said they had concerns about widening booster shots for the general population with such limited data. Members said they would potentially support recommending a third dose for certain high-risk groups of the population such as older adults, but that there wasn’t enough data to justify giving it to the general population. They said that vaccines such as Pfizer’s are holding up against severe disease.

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May 4, 2011
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From WSJ just now:

Many panel members said they had concerns about widening booster shots for the general population with such limited data. Members said they would potentially support recommending a third dose for certain high-risk groups of the population such as older adults, but that there wasn’t enough data to justify giving it to the general population. They said that vaccines such as Pfizer’s are holding up against severe disease.

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I'm actually kind of relieved with this decision. High risk groups seem to need boosters but the benefit beyond an explosion of antibodies isn't clear for anyone else. I don't know if we need a rush on boosters yet.
 

StillwaterTownie

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The 8+ hour long FDA panel discussion from Friday did let on at one anti covid vaccine fanatic. Steve Kirsch told them that the covid vaccines are killing more people than they are saving. However, Kirsch's field of expertise is in computer science, not medical science.

Just before Kirsch, an actual medical doctor did come on the FDA panel and concluded his presentation by saying, "We need your help on the front lines to stop vaccine hesitancy. Demand the booster trials are large enough to find a reduction in hospitalization. Without this data we in the medical establishment can not confidently call out anti-vaccine activists who publicly proclaim the vaccines harm more than they save, especially in the young and healthy. The fact we do not have the clinical evidence to say these activists are wrong should terrify us all." Dr. Joseph Fraiman.

Anyway, no wonder the FDA didn't feel ready to let adults under age 65 get boosters until more data comes in. In light of this I oppose any covid vaccine mandates issued by the government. The government does offer an opt out on the condition regular tests for covid are made, but government should pay for them.

The two speakers mentioned above start at around 4:17.
 
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