Consolidated Basketball Recruiting 2021

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Jan 5, 2011
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#41
I hope you are right. They won’t have any 5th year seniors in front of them on the depth chart but they are still going to have to fight for PT with the Boones, MAM, and Kouma. It’s not like they get to walk in here with no competition. Did those 5th year seniors come back? Because otherwise, I would have thought they’d be in for an increase in PT at their previous schools.

My impression is these guys will be deep depth this year, mainly playing when others are in foul trouble. I’m just hoping they stick around because these are the types of kids you need on your team as juniors and seniors. By that point they are good enough to play. I’d just rather have a HS 4-star guy to take a chance on rather than guys that have already transferred 1-2 years in. If they’ve done it once, they are more likely to do it again.


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I think it will be a big win if in a year from now we can keep MAM, the Boone twins, and the 2 transfers. That would be some legit quality depth (still without a big center/banger) moving forward for the program.

Yes, we all agree we need a knock down perimeter shooter/scoter, but this roster really has some potential in my eyes. Avery took a big step at the end of last year, and is probably considered “the guy” for us next year. I think if Rondel and MAM both show improvement like they are capable of, then we can be a legit sweet 16 team and a top 3-4 big 12 contender. Rondel becoming a consistent shooter and scorer, and MAM letting the game slow down and choosing his spots. Especially if Kalib can be more consistent.

If we were able to defend with MAM, woody and kalib on the floor at the same time, I feel like we “could” find some mismatches on the offensive end.

Maybe I’m drinking too much kool aid but go pokes!
 

POPOKE

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Feb 7, 2007
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#42
Has anyone else been a little underwhelmed with the transfers so far. Guys like Bryce Thompson and Trey Alexander haven’t committed yet and we’re filling the few spots we have.

Sure they are 4-star talents, but I can’t remember the last time a D1 transfer came in from another school where they weren’t getting playing time and contributed significantly. We’ve had better luck with older transfers and JuCo kids (sometimes the most talented but didn’t have the grade to make it out of high school).

I know their per 40 minutes stats are good, but they weren’t getting playing time last year for a reason. Hopefully that reason is their coaches were idiots, but not likely when you are talking Boeheim and Beard. They probably aren’t getting much more PT here with Boone and MAM in the way. There maybe 10 min per game inside up for grabs. Heck Boone and MAM only played just over 20 min per game each last season.

Maybe they are able to develop and contribute as Juniors and Seniors but usually when they don’t play here either, they jump ship and are off to another school.

We have not replaced Cade’s starting spot in the lineup nor have we added shooting (which we desperately need). We’ve added some depth inside (which we also needed) but neither of these guys are big enough to help us handle the huge big guys that we struggled with last year. Here’s hoping the final 1-2 guys we take in this class are a little more impactful.


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Both Woody and Smith were freshman playing behind talented 5th year seniors, Santos-Silva at Tech and Dolezaj at Syracuse. Both were 4 star recruits that have now spent a year at high end colleges practicing, lifting weights and developing. And like you said, both were productive in their minutes played. Their floor is a a productive role player, their ceilings are much higher. We still have time to add a really talented shooter, let’s be patient and trust Boynton and the staff can add another talented shooter.
I hope you are right. They won’t have any 5th year seniors in front of them on the depth chart but they are still going to have to fight for PT with the Boones, MAM, and Kouma. It’s not like they get to walk in here with no competition. Did those 5th year seniors come back? Because otherwise, I would have thought they’d be in for an increase in PT at their previous schools.

My impression is these guys will be deep depth this year, mainly playing when others are in foul trouble. I’m just hoping they stick around because these are the types of kids you need on your team as juniors and seniors. By that point they are good enough to play. I’d just rather have a HS 4-star guy to take a chance on rather than guys that have already transferred 1-2 years in. If they’ve done it once, they are more likely to do it again.


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The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores. It’s rare a four star guy comes and dominates, they take time to develop. I’m sure they’re out there, but if you can find me a four star who was all conference or something like that their freshman year I’ll be impressed. I’d much rather take a four star recruit who played around ten minutes a game in a power 5 conference than a four star true freshman. The transfer four star won’t be shocked by college workouts, school work, travel schedules, being away from home, and conference and ncaa tourney games. They’re a year older, more mature, and stronger. Case in point, would you rather have freshman Avery Anderson or sophomore Avery Anderson? And yes, both Smith and Woody would have been in line for more minutes at their former schools, but that’s the portal. They could transfer again, but with the new rules they’d have to sit out a year so it’s less likely they transfer again. Go look at Tech and Syracuse boards, both are pissed these guys transferred and thought both should have played more minutes this last year. I expect Smith to be the backup center and play around 15 minutes a game. He’s stronger than Kalib so he should be able to help against the bigger posts. Not sure about Woody, but there’s minutes available at the 3 or as MAM’s backup if he plays well enough to earn them. You say you can’t remember a guy transferring in these circumstances, but Bryce Williams is literally that guy. Wasn’t getting minutes at Ole Miss and had no stats and he came here and averaged around 9 points a game, played good defense, and was a good contributor.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#43
I would like to see us get at least one impact transfer with one of our last two.

Newton, I believe adds shooting and length. But I think he is a role player next year. Tech transfer splits minutes at the 5 with Kalib which we really lacked this past year. So both role players. Keylan gives depth up and down the line up.

If we don't add an impact player, Ice must return to his sophomore season form and actually be a little better. AA has to like he was for the last part of the season for us. And then Walker and/or MAM need to make a similar jump that AA made from frosh to soph. Kalib will steadily improve because he's likely to understand how to stay out of foul trouble and defend better. We want at least one 1st All Big 12 guy. Then at least two others receiving awards.

Bryce would be great to have back but I see him being the same player next year. Energy guy. When he's making shots, he plays more minutes. I don't know if Harris or D. Williams can do this role or not at this point. This where having another proven guy would help not rely on big leaps out of Walker and MAM.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#46
I like Newton & Smith, but it seems odd to me that we would take 3 different power forwards in the exact same class. I have to wonder if they project Smith as a center, despite the fact that he's only 6'-7".
 

OkstateKerr

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Jan 13, 2005
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#47
I like Newton & Smith, but it seems odd to me that we would take 3 different power forwards in the exact same class. I have to wonder if they project Smith as a center, despite the fact that he's only 6'-7".
I mean Mark Vital was only 6-5 and Ivan McFarlin was only 6-8 and they both wrecked shop down low.
 

CampusCowboy

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Oct 4, 2006
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#48
Has anyone else been a little underwhelmed with the transfers so far. Guys like Bryce Thompson and Trey Alexander haven’t committed yet and we’re filling the few spots we have.

Sure they are 4-star talents, but I can’t remember the last time a D1 transfer came in from another school where they weren’t getting playing time and contributed significantly. We’ve had better luck with older transfers and JuCo kids (sometimes the most talented but didn’t have the grade to make it out of high school).

I know their per 40 minutes stats are good, but they weren’t getting playing time last year for a reason. Hopefully that reason is their coaches were idiots, but not likely when you are talking Boeheim and Beard. They probably aren’t getting much more PT here with Boone and MAM in the way. There maybe 10 min per game inside up for grabs. Heck Boone and MAM only played just over 20 min per game each last season.

Maybe they are able to develop and contribute as Juniors and Seniors but usually when they don’t play here either, they jump ship and are off to another school.

We have not replaced Cade’s starting spot in the lineup nor have we added shooting (which we desperately need). We’ve added some depth inside (which we also needed) but neither of these guys are big enough to help us handle the huge big guys that we struggled with last year. Here’s hoping the final 1-2 guys we take in this class are a little more impactful.


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Both Woody and Smith were freshman playing behind talented 5th year seniors, Santos-Silva at Tech and Dolezaj at Syracuse. Both were 4 star recruits that have now spent a year at high end colleges practicing, lifting weights and developing. And like you said, both were productive in their minutes played. Their floor is a a productive role player, their ceilings are much higher. We still have time to add a really talented shooter, let’s be patient and trust Boynton and the staff can add another talented shooter.
I hope you are right. They won’t have any 5th year seniors in front of them on the depth chart but they are still going to have to fight for PT with the Boones, MAM, and Kouma. It’s not like they get to walk in here with no competition. Did those 5th year seniors come back? Because otherwise, I would have thought they’d be in for an increase in PT at their previous schools.

My impression is these guys will be deep depth this year, mainly playing when others are in foul trouble. I’m just hoping they stick around because these are the types of kids you need on your team as juniors and seniors. By that point they are good enough to play. I’d just rather have a HS 4-star guy to take a chance on rather than guys that have already transferred 1-2 years in. If they’ve done it once, they are more likely to do it again.


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The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores. It’s rare a four star guy comes and dominates, they take time to develop. I’m sure they’re out there, but if you can find me a four star who was all conference or something like that their freshman year I’ll be impressed. I’d much rather take a four star recruit who played around ten minutes a game in a power 5 conference than a four star true freshman. The transfer four star won’t be shocked by college workouts, school work, travel schedules, being away from home, and conference and ncaa tourney games. They’re a year older, more mature, and stronger. Case in point, would you rather have freshman Avery Anderson or sophomore Avery Anderson? And yes, both Smith and Woody would have been in line for more minutes at their former schools, but that’s the portal. They could transfer again, but with the new rules they’d have to sit out a year so it’s less likely they transfer again. Go look at Tech and Syracuse boards, both are pissed these guys transferred and thought both should have played more minutes this last year. I expect Smith to be the backup center and play around 15 minutes a game. He’s stronger than Kalib so he should be able to help against the bigger posts. Not sure about Woody, but there’s minutes available at the 3 or as MAM’s backup if he plays well enough to earn them. You say you can’t remember a guy transferring in these circumstances, but Bryce Williams is literally that guy. Wasn’t getting minutes at Ole Miss and had no stats and he came here and averaged around 9 points a game, played good defense, and was a good contributor.
That’s exactly my point. These guys work out if they stick around, but chances are slim they do that. So, take older guys as transfers or high schoolers if you are going as young guys. I think you have a good point on the adjustment thing.

Bryce Williams was a junior and not a freshman at Ole Miss. I’d rather take a grad transfer, that way you get experienced players without having to hope they stick around for 3-4 years to hit their potential and you don’t have to roster guys that are still developing. Just too much turnover of rosters these days. Then you add another guy to replace them the next year after they graduate.

Again, I hope they play well, was just hoping for more high profile guys. This maybe all we can get with the postseason ban hanging over our heads.


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Jun 20, 2013
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#51
How would y'all split the minutes between Kalib, MAM, Kouma, Newton, Smith? Also, is it possible that Ice starts most games, but sees minimal minutes? With Anderson stepping up, and with Chris Harris and Donovan Williams coming back (hopefully recovered), and hopeful continued growth from Rondell and Keylan, things could get packed. Which is a great feeling.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#52
I mean Mark Vital was only 6-5 and Ivan McFarlin was only 6-8 and they both wrecked shop down low.
Bernard Kouma: 6'-10" 240 pounds
Kalib Boone: 6'-9" 210 pounds
Matthew-Alexander Moncrieffe: 6'-7" 215 pounds
Woody Newton: 6'-8" 200 pounds
Tyreek Smith: 6'-7" 220 pounds

From where I'm standing, Kouma appears to the the only true center on the roster. Vital & Imac weren't very tall, but they both weighed around 240-250 pounds, so they had the strength to guard the post and rebound. I could see MAM & Smith getting bigger as they spend more time in a college weight room, I'm not sure about Boone & Newton.

It will be interesting to see how our young group of post players develop over the next few years.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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#53
The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores. It’s rare a four star guy comes and dominates, they take time to develop. I’m sure they’re out there, but if you can find me a four star who was all conference or something like that their freshman year I’ll be impressed. I’d much rather take a four star recruit who played around ten minutes a game in a power 5 conference than a four star true freshman. The transfer four star won’t be shocked by college workouts, school work, travel schedules, being away from home, and conference and ncaa tourney games. They’re a year older, more mature, and stronger. Case in point, would you rather have freshman Avery Anderson or sophomore Avery Anderson? And yes, both Smith and Woody would have been in line for more minutes at their former schools, but that’s the portal. They could transfer again, but with the new rules they’d have to sit out a year so it’s less likely they transfer again. Go look at Tech and Syracuse boards, both are pissed these guys transferred and thought both should have played more minutes this last year. I expect Smith to be the backup center and play around 15 minutes a game. He’s stronger than Kalib so he should be able to help against the bigger posts. Not sure about Woody, but there’s minutes available at the 3 or as MAM’s backup if he plays well enough to earn them. You say you can’t remember a guy transferring in these circumstances, but Bryce Williams is literally that guy. Wasn’t getting minutes at Ole Miss and had no stats and he came here and averaged around 9 points a game, played good defense, and was a good contributor.
I agree with Freshman vs Sophomore. However AA's Freshman to Sophomore jump in development was probably greater than 95% of college players. He went from 4.2pt/g to 12.2pt/g, which included 16.6pt/g over the last 10. It isn't a fair comparison to expect that from the typical Freshman to Sophomore development.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#54
How would y'all split the minutes between Kalib, MAM, Kouma, Newton, Smith? Also, is it possible that Ice starts most games, but sees minimal minutes? With Anderson stepping up, and with Chris Harris and Donovan Williams coming back (hopefully recovered), and hopeful continued growth from Rondell and Keylan, things could get packed. Which is a great feeling.
Well, the goal is you don't get stuck playing Kouma who's skillset is not on par for the Big 12. He does add a big body as your third big though. But I think you're missing Keylan on this list that will play some minutes at the 4 as well.
 

POPOKE

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Feb 7, 2007
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#55
The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores. It’s rare a four star guy comes and dominates, they take time to develop. I’m sure they’re out there, but if you can find me a four star who was all conference or something like that their freshman year I’ll be impressed. I’d much rather take a four star recruit who played around ten minutes a game in a power 5 conference than a four star true freshman. The transfer four star won’t be shocked by college workouts, school work, travel schedules, being away from home, and conference and ncaa tourney games. They’re a year older, more mature, and stronger. Case in point, would you rather have freshman Avery Anderson or sophomore Avery Anderson? And yes, both Smith and Woody would have been in line for more minutes at their former schools, but that’s the portal. They could transfer again, but with the new rules they’d have to sit out a year so it’s less likely they transfer again. Go look at Tech and Syracuse boards, both are pissed these guys transferred and thought both should have played more minutes this last year. I expect Smith to be the backup center and play around 15 minutes a game. He’s stronger than Kalib so he should be able to help against the bigger posts. Not sure about Woody, but there’s minutes available at the 3 or as MAM’s backup if he plays well enough to earn them. You say you can’t remember a guy transferring in these circumstances, but Bryce Williams is literally that guy. Wasn’t getting minutes at Ole Miss and had no stats and he came here and averaged around 9 points a game, played good defense, and was a good contributor.
I agree with Freshman vs Sophomore. However AA's Freshman to Sophomore jump in development was probably greater than 95% of college players. He went from 4.2pt/g to 12.2pt/g, which included 16.6pt/g over the last 10. It isn't a fair comparison to expect that from the typical Freshman to Sophomore development.
On our team alone Kalib went from 4.7 to 9.5, Keylan went from 2.7 to 4.4, Ice went from 8.7 to 10.9, Jeffery Carroll went from 3.9 to 8.2, Cam McGriff went from 3.8 to 8.4, Lindy Waters went from 5.7 to 8.7. And those are just the most recent Boynton players. I agree AA’s jump was significant. But I’d also I’d say it’s safe to say in Boynton’s program sophomores improve significantly compared to their freshman years.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#56
How would y'all split the minutes between Kalib, MAM, Kouma, Newton, Smith? Also, is it possible that Ice starts most games, but sees minimal minutes? With Anderson stepping up, and with Chris Harris and Donovan Williams coming back (hopefully recovered), and hopeful continued growth from Rondell and Keylan, things could get packed. Which is a great feeling.
I know Ice was bad at the end of last season, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he can return to form. With him on the floor a lot though, we need shooting out there as well. AA really improved that little pull up. If he can develop a knockdown, catch and shoot 3, look out because he will be that much more effective off the ball as well.

4 Guards we know we can count on...
AA
Ice (assuming he can stay healthy)
Walker
Bryce (if he plays)

Unknowns:
D. Williams and C. Harris

Keylan and Newton can help on the wing some.

This why I think we need an impact guard from the portal because Bryce might not be here and Ice has been hurt/sick for extended periods the last two seasons.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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#57
On our team alone Kalib went from 4.7 to 9.5, Keylan went from 2.7 to 4.4, Ice went from 8.7 to 10.9, Jeffery Carroll went from 3.9 to 8.2, Cam McGriff went from 3.8 to 8.4, Lindy Waters went from 5.7 to 8.7. And those are just the most recent Boynton players. I agree AA’s jump was significant. But I’d also I’d say it’s safe to say in Boynton’s program sophomores improve significantly compared to their freshman years.
You just confirmed what I said: AA's development was probably better than 95% of college players transitioning from Fresh to Soph
 

POPOKE

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#58
On our team alone Kalib went from 4.7 to 9.5, Keylan went from 2.7 to 4.4, Ice went from 8.7 to 10.9, Jeffery Carroll went from 3.9 to 8.2, Cam McGriff went from 3.8 to 8.4, Lindy Waters went from 5.7 to 8.7. And those are just the most recent Boynton players. I agree AA’s jump was significant. But I’d also I’d say it’s safe to say in Boynton’s program sophomores improve significantly compared to their freshman years.
You just confirmed what I said: AA's development was probably better than 95% of college players transitioning from Fresh to Soph
Did I confirm what you’re saying? AA basically tripled his scoring output. But so did McGriff and Carroll. Are McGriff and Carroll also in that 95%?

Kai Jones at Texas also tripled his scoring output year one to year two.
Santos Silva at Tech tripled his scoring average year one to year two.
Davion Mitchell at Baylor tripled his scoring average year one to year two.
Taz Sherman at WVU was very close to doing the same.

And that’s doing minimal research just in conference, I stopped after looking at those teams. I don’t think it’s as uncommon as you think for sophomores to improve dramatically from year 1 to year 2.
 
Last edited:
Jun 14, 2011
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#59
Did I confirm what you’re saying? AA basically tripled his scoring output. But so did McGriff and Carroll. Are McGriff and Carroll also in that 95%?

Kai Jones at Texas also tripled his scoring output year one to year two.
Santos Silva at Tech tripled his scoring average year one to year two.
Davion Mitchell at Baylor tripled his scoring average year one to year two.
Taz Sherman at WVU was very close to doing the same.

And that’s doing minimal research just in conference, I stopped after looking at those teams. I don’t think it’s as uncommon as you think for sophomores to improve dramatically from year 1 to year 2.
I think you both are shades of correct. Before reading either post, I would have agreed that a large majority don't triple their scoring output, but I would have believed that most freshman to sophomore changes are positive.

None of the OSU players you listed originally had triple out-put and it sounds like one player from each of the teams you list above had similar improvement to AA. Specifically, McGriff 2.2 jump and Carroll 2.1 jump, both of whom played substantially more minutes 15.7 to 24.1 for McGriff and 11.4 to 24.8 for Carroll. Of course their scoring output will go up with 10 more minutes per game. At least it better. I don't have the time to do the research at the moment, but I would postulate that it is safe to say that freshman to sophomores across the country improve a great deal between their freshman and sophomore years.

So maybe the 95% tripling their output @SlurrrPup postulated is high, but its likely not too far off. Maybe it's more like 80%, which is still quite the minority as compared to all the teams and players out there.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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#60
Did I confirm what you’re saying? AA basically tripled his scoring output. But so did McGriff and Carroll. Are McGriff and Carroll also in that 95%? I don’t think it’s as uncommon as you think is for sophomores to improve dramatically from year 1 to year 2.
McGriff and Carroll didn't triple their scoring output and I would not put them in the same group as AA when looking at Fresh to Soph. Using Freshman scoring alone can be a little deceiving.

AA doubled his minutes, tripled his scoring, doubled his rebounds, shooting went from 43% to 52%.

The 95% was just trying to think about how often it occurs, 1 out of 20 players. I have no facts, don't tell my co-workers or they will never believe my data. Taking over games late in his Sophomore season is why I have such a high regard for him compared to the other players on this list. He filled the void when Cade wasn't there and he didn't relinquish it when Cade returned (16.8 pt/game after Cade returned for the last 5 games).

Player % Increase in Scoring (Fresh-Soph)
AA 190%
Kalib 102%
Keylan 162%
Ice 125%
Carroll 110%
Cam 121%
Lindy 152%

Carroll did take over his Jr year and had basically doubled his scoring every year between his Fresh to Jr. which is pretty remarkable.