Broken Arrow accused of constitutional violation

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andylicious

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It's not kosher to say, but Christianity of today more resembles the Pharisees than it does the teachings of Christ. Wealth, power, elitism, nationalism. These are the things that come to mind when I think of the American Christian.
Unfortunately you aren't wrong. We've made so many rules no one can follow them. When you see the mess we've made of it all it's really sad. I was reading the issues going on the SBC and it's embarrassing the kind of behavior we are willing to tolerate.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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Unfortunately you aren't wrong. We've made so many rules no one can follow them. When you see the mess we've made of it all it's really sad. I was reading the issues going on the SBC and it's embarrassing the kind of behavior we are willing to tolerate.
Old school, 1st century Christianity was really an incredible thing. Revolutionary. What I see now is...corrupted. If Christians actually practiced like they are 'supposed' to, this would be a very different world.

What's been going on at the SBC? For those of us not in the know.
 

Jostate

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It's not kosher to say, but Christianity of today more resembles the Pharisees than it does the teachings of Christ. Wealth, power, elitism, nationalism. These are the things that come to mind when I think of the American Christian.
I think the rise of the nondenominational churches is a response to some of this. We see traditional churches where the higher ups have great wealth while people with far less struggle to tithe, and we've all heard about some of the scandals that are inexcusable. So the Lifechurch type churches are attracting people who like the message, and community, but don't want to be a part of a centuries old, bureaucratic, possibly corrupt, institution.
 

Jostate

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Old school, 1st century Christianity was really an incredible thing. Revolutionary. What I see now is...corrupted. If Christians actually practiced like they are 'supposed' to, this would be a very different world.

What's been going on at the SBC? For those of us not in the know.
People have always been dirtbags (sinners). Now we have more transparency to expose it.

I've said it before on here but it's easy to find fault in churches and the people in the church, but what goes unnoticed is immeasurable number of positive acts carried out as a result of people being influenced by the church. It's impossible to know how many people avoided self destructive behaviors, or displayed more kindness to another as a result of the church. Not to mention many churches do reach out to the community and to charitable work, or give money to help the needy.
 

CowboyJD

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I think the rise of the nondenominational churches is a response to some of this. We see traditional churches where the higher ups have great wealth while people with far less struggle to tithe, and we've all heard about some of the scandals that are inexcusable. So the Lifechurch type churches are attracting people who like the message, and community, but don't want to be a part of a centuries old, bureaucratic, possibly corrupt, institution.
Plenty of those Lifechurch type churches are just as eat up with greed and corruption as the old churches.
 

Jostate

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Plenty of those Lifechurch type churches are just as eat up with greed and corruption as the old churches.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I really don't know. But the big, old religions make the news. I feel like you might be able to find a church where the people are pretty decent on a smaller scale (if you can call Lifechurch that), but you'll never get away from the fact that you are tied into something un Christ like if you join one of the big names. My Brother in Law is a generations old Catholic and it eats him up the thought that his tithe might be going to a legal defense fund of some pedopriest. Lifechurch isn't perfect but I feel comfortable knowing my money isn't being used that way.

Full disclosure, if not for my wife there probably wouldn't be a lot of tithing going on over here anyway.
 

andylicious

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Old school, 1st century Christianity was really an incredible thing. Revolutionary. What I see now is...corrupted. If Christians actually practiced like they are 'supposed' to, this would be a very different world.

What's been going on at the SBC? For those of us not in the know.
We've got a sex problem, an abuse of power issue and general bad behavior. There has been a committee that the leadership hates worse than a proctology exam. Some of the leadership has resigned because they are struggling with accountability to their members. The politics and infighting are awful. It's really embarrassing, but bringing a large organization in line with its original identity is no small task. It has to be done.
 
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It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I really don't know. But the big, old religions make the news. I feel like you might be able to find a church where the people are pretty decent on a smaller scale (if you can call Lifechurch that), but you'll never get away from the fact that you are tied into something un Christ like if you join one of the big names. My Brother in Law is a generations old Catholic and it eats him up the thought that his tithe might be going to a legal defense fund of some pedopriest. Lifechurch isn't perfect but I feel comfortable knowing my money isn't being used that way. Full disclosure, if not for my wife there probably wouldn't be a lot of tithing going on over here anyway.
Well, maybe not in some kind of "pedopriest" manner, but when it gets down to it we really don't ever know for certain our tithes aren't going to something un-Christ-like, even with Lifechurch.
 
Nov 18, 2011
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Old school, 1st century Christianity was really an incredible thing. Revolutionary. What I see now is...corrupted. If Christians actually practiced like they are 'supposed' to, this would be a very different world.
I don’t disagree with some of what you say about there being corruption, legalism, etc in American Christianity. The Church is far from perfect, but I also think there is some broad brush, stereotyping, and inaccurate perception driven by a secular society and media.

On the other hand though, do you think that the Christ of the Bible would be loved and embraced in today’s culture? Do you think that people would be open to him calling out sin directly as he did in scripture and calling them to repentance for things like unbelief, sexual sin, greed, hypocrisy , etc? Or do you think he would be called judgemental? Do you think the world would embrace his miracles and healings, or call them “science” or “Illusions”? Jesus said in John 7:7, “The world cannot hate you, but it hates me, because I testify that its works are evil.” If the Church truly follows Christ and his disciples, it won’t be embraced by this world, and many of the same labels will be placed on it.
 
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I find it interesting that virtualy all societies worldwide have some short of religion. Why is this ? I am sure you
have read Mans Search for Meaning....by Victor Frankl. In it and later too he explores why we all search for meaning. To have meaning in our life is our deepest search...and that deepest meaning is to to know the essence of everything.
But why does a deeper meaning of life have to be a religious one? Can you not be a deep thinker or wanting the answers and not be religious? Why must those two go hand and hand?
 
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But why does a deeper meaning of life have to be a religious one? Can you not be a deep thinker or wanting the answers and not be religious? Why must those two go hand and hand?
I believe one can be "religious" or have some kind of religious experience without necessarily having a particular God or deity as a part of it. I'm not of that group, but I still believe it can exist in that form.
 

Jostate

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Well, maybe not in some kind of "pedopriest" manner, but when it gets down to it we really don't ever know for certain our tithes aren't going to something un-Christ-like, even with Lifechurch.
You're probably right. I may be a little naïve about this but Lifechurch is good about transparency.

I know any time you have too much faith in a person, rather than the message, you're setting yourself up for disappointment, but I do think Craig Groeschel is smart enough to not do anything that would tarnish his life's work. He has a lot of safeguards in place, like he has no access to the churches money, and other people have the ability to see everything he does on his work computer, to keep himself in line even if he is tempted.
 

snuffy

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You're probably right. I may be a little naïve about this but Lifechurch is good about transparency.
Your are right about transparency, they let gay people know very quickly they are not welcome at their church.
 

Jostate

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Your are right about transparency, they let gay people know very quickly they are not welcome at their church.
I honestly haven't seen or heard that. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but every message I've heard from Groeschel, and I've heard many, are extremely accepting of all people. I don't remember his stance on homosexuality, so he may see it as a sin, but he wants everyone to feel welcome in the church. I've been going, inconsistently, for 20 years and I haven't seen anything about this.

Not trying to dispute but sincerely curious, can you give me specifics?
 

snuffy

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I honestly haven't seen or heard that. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but every message I've heard from Groeschel, and I've heard many, are extremely accepting of all people. I don't remember his stance on homosexuality, so he may see it as a sin, but he wants everyone to feel welcome in the church. I've been going, inconsistently, for 20 years and I haven't seen anything about this.

Not trying to dispute but sincerely curious, can you give me specifics?
It was one of the satellite churches and while the on site pastor or what his tile was did not say it in a service he did say it in a fellowship type setting.