Broken Arrow accused of constitutional violation

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UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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#81
So when Biden says "So help me God" are we to be offended, which he does say sometimes. This isn't about Donald or Joe.
Didn't post it to be partisan, it was just a famous recent example that came to mind when talking about government officials and proselytizing. A person who coaches youths can't baptize them outside of school activities and hours, but the President of the United States can stand in front of a Church holding a Bible for a photo op. Seems an incongruous outlook.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#83
You didn't address any of my questions and just posed your own. Fine, then, but I don't think your question is going to garner the response you want. There's two problems with it:

1) It could just as easily be asked why some scientists are Muslim or Hindu. You need to answer that before you can ask about Christians.
2) The majority of scientists aren't Christian. So why do you think that is?

But lets leave the conjecture behind and just use the data. This is a chart showing the percentage of scientists who consider themselves even slightly religious compared to their general population
View attachment 92505

It's 3 out of 10 for the US. And I'll wager heavily that this number is on a drastic decline. 70% of scientists aren't even slightly religious in this country. And the nations with the higher %'s are heavily influence by religion. It's almost as if it's a construct of your society more than anything else.

One thing to note is that this is religious, not Christian. So there's a good chance that those 3 aren't even all Christians. As a matter of fact, if you look at weekly attendance at religious ceremonies, the number of scientists falling into the faithful category plummets to 1 out of 10.
View attachment 92506



So why do you think so few scientists are Christian?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2378023116664353
The reason I think the reason that many great scientists are Christians is because both scientists and Christians are seeking the answers to the deepest and most difficult questions that every person asks.
 
Jul 5, 2020
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#84
The reason I think the reason that many great scientists are Christians is because both scientists and Christians are seeking the answers to the deepest and most difficult questions that every person asks.
Yet only one group has a chance of obtaining answers to their respective questions in this lifetime. DEEEEEEP THOUGHTS!!!!! ;)
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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#85
I include myself in this. Seems in addition to head football coaches we are now all constitutional scholars.
There is at least one person in this thread that deals with constitutional law issues every....single....day....he is at work.
 
May 4, 2011
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#86
The reason I think the reason that many great scientists are Christians is because both scientists and Christians are seeking the answers to the deepest and most difficult questions that every person asks.
You've been on this point and I really don't think there's an over representation of Christian's among great scientists. Our most famous scientists have been decidedly not. Einstein and Hawking are probably the two most famous scientists of the last century. Decidedly not christian. Newton wasn't something that any of us would recognize as christian since he didn't believe in the divinity of christ. Salk was Jewish. Curie was agnostic. Even that list is biased toward western scientists who were most likely to be Christian. There have definitely been prominent scientists who were Christians, but it's really hard to see how they would be overrepresented among the "great scientists."
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#87
You've been on this point and I really don't think there's an over representation of Christian's among great scientists. Our most famous scientists have been decidedly not. Einstein and Hawking are probably the two most famous scientists of the last century. Decidedly not christian. Newton wasn't something that any of us would recognize as christian since he didn't believe in the divinity of christ. Salk was Jewish. Curie was agnostic. Even that list is biased toward western scientists who were most likely to be Christian. There have definitely been prominent scientists who were Christians, but it's really hard to see how they would be overrepresented among the "great scientists."
You are right. It is impossible for me to say how many "great scientists" there are since it up to God who decides who is a Christian and who is not. But at the same time many of our well known scientists including Newton who a number of religious tacts at Cambridge, Steven Hawking who read the Bible as a boy, and Einstein who wrestled with this an other important questions.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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#88
Matthew 5: 10-12
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
How Christians in America have the gall to say that first one, I'll never know. There are Christians who are actually persecuted in this world, but somehow I doubt you were referring to them.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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#89
The reason I think the reason that many great scientists are Christians is because both scientists and Christians are seeking the answers to the deepest and most difficult questions that every person asks.
And that's great. Except one side says "I know everything from this collection of books written over 2,000 years ago by people that didn't know the earth revolved around the sun or what a bacteria is. And if you don't agree with it, you're going to hell. Even the parts that don't make rational sense. ESPECIALLY those parts".

The other side developed a process using empirical evidence to try to understand the world around them.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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#91
You are right. It is impossible for me to say how many "great scientists" there are since it up to God who decides who is a Christian and who is not. But at the same time many of our well known scientists including Newton who a number of religious tacts at Cambridge, Steven Hawking who read the Bible as a boy, and Einstein who wrestled with this an other important questions.
Say what now?
 
May 4, 2011
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#92
You are right. It is impossible for me to say how many "great scientists" there are since it up to God who decides who is a Christian and who is not. But at the same time many of our well known scientists including Newton who a number of religious tacts at Cambridge, Steven Hawking who read the Bible as a boy, and Einstein who wrestled with this an other important questions.
That's true, but that's not what you said and if "only God knows," then your point that "so many great scientists are Christians" can't be true or at least can't be knowable.

Not meaning this to be flip, but the fact that very smart people wrestle with deep questions is unsurprising. That's not the same as being Christian. I'd even go do far as to say that smart people wrestling with deep questions and rejecting fundamental tenets of christianity (e.g., Christ's divinity) is quite the opposite. Some branches of Judaism allow for that kind of flexibility, but I'm not aware of any major sect of Christianity that does.

Sorry, but this point really frustrates me when people start trying to suggest that either being a great thinker makes you christian or vice versa. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's certainly how it came across.
 
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#93
I try to put myself in the shoes of the person who is upset about this and see how I would feel of the role was reversed



If I had a child in football practice and the coach had "obviously" been talking about this process and how to give their lives to Allah and 10 people decided to immediately after practice have the coach help them become Muslims....how would I feel about that ? And How would I feel about this if it happened at my local public school with teachers helping students become Muslims

Because if you support what happened in BA, then you have to support teachers baptizing students into Islam on school grounds as well
As long as I’m not compelled to attend or otherwise punished if I don’t, no problem here. Still don’t think we should come close to opening that can of worms, but I wouldn’t have a problem if they did.
 
Oct 29, 2016
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#94
IMO, what would make this world a much better place? If people would keep their religion private and leave it at their home door. People use religion as if they deserve special privileges in society. Stop pulling out the "Religion Card." Instead, replace it with being a good person who is equal to others. Just because you may have a religion does not grant you special privileges. Unfortunately, that's not how the majority of the world works.

In Christianity's bible, congregation and/or church is not even mentioned one time. In fact, I'm 100% certain that Jesus demands to help people in need. Modern-day Christianity, specifically in the US, does not even remotely resemble the teachings of Jesus and what he expects people to do. Instead of helping the poor, sick, etc, modern-day Christians use politics to literally do the complete opposite.

Instead of meeting up, why don't Christians do what Jesus demand they do.. you know, to use your riches to help the poor, instead of what Christians actually do..congregation and demanding special privileges. Jesus said that's literally the only way you will get a ticket to heaven, after all... to help people.
 
Nov 18, 2011
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#95
IMO, what would make this world a much better place? If people would keep their religion private and leave it at their home door. People use religion as if they deserve special privileges in society. Stop pulling out the "Religion Card." Instead, replace it with being a good person who is equal to others. Just because you may have a religion does not grant you special privileges. Unfortunately, that's not how the majority of the world works.

In Christianity's bible, congregation and/or church is not even mentioned one time. In fact, I'm 100% certain that Jesus demands to help people in need. Modern-day Christianity, specifically in the US, does not even remotely resemble the teachings of Jesus and what he expects people to do. Instead of helping the poor, sick, etc, modern-day Christians use politics to literally do the complete opposite.

Instead of meeting up, why don't Christians do what Jesus demand they do.. you know, to use your riches to help the poor, instead of what Christians actually do..congregation and demanding special privileges. Jesus said that's literally the only way you will get a ticket to heaven, after all... to help people.
For any Bible believing Christian, Jesus words in the Great Commission do not lend the option of leaving your faith at home.

I’m sorry that you hold that perception of Christians. We certainly are sinful and aren’t perfect beings. The Church as a whole could do better in many of the areas you touched on.

You may not be aware though of many of the ways churches are impacting those areas in your community. For example, the church I attend runs a ministry that doesn’t reference the church in its name. It has though a full time minister operating it, and it provides food, clothing, bill support, job placement support etc. It is supported by the congregation financially, through donations, and volunteering. We also serve dinner every week in a local mobile home park, provide school supplies for less fortunate students, disaster relief, crisis pregnancy etc. In addition we support things globally like orphanages, digging water wells, food and medical supplies.

I highlight these things not to brag, just to point out their are many churches doing these things, not seeking attention or recognition. From the outside, it may just look like they have a big, nice building, and congregate a couple times a week.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#96
IMO, what would make this world a much better place? If people would keep their religion private and leave it at their home door. People use religion as if they deserve special privileges in society. Stop pulling out the "Religion Card." Instead, replace it with being a good person who is equal to others. Just because you may have a religion does not grant you special privileges. Unfortunately, that's not how the majority of the world works.

In Christianity's bible, congregation and/or church is not even mentioned one time. In fact, I'm 100% certain that Jesus demands to help people in need. Modern-day Christianity, specifically in the US, does not even remotely resemble the teachings of Jesus and what he expects people to do. Instead of helping the poor, sick, etc, modern-day Christians use politics to literally do the complete opposite.

Instead of meeting up, why don't Christians do what Jesus demand they do.. you know, to use your riches to help the poor, instead of what Christians actually do..congregation and demanding special privileges. Jesus said that's literally the only way you will get a ticket to heaven, after all... to help people.
For any Bible believing Christian, Jesus words in the Great Commission do not lend the option of leaving your faith at home.

I’m sorry that you hold that perception of Christians. We certainly are sinful and aren’t perfect beings. The Church as a whole could do better in many of the areas you touched on.

You may not be aware though of many of the ways churches are impacting those areas in your community. For example, the church I attend runs a ministry that doesn’t reference the church in its name. It has though a full time minister operating it, and it provides food, clothing, bill support, job placement support etc. It is supported by the congregation financially, through donations, and volunteering. We also serve dinner every week in a local mobile home park, provide school supplies for less fortunate students, disaster relief, crisis pregnancy etc. In addition we support things globally like orphanages, digging water wells, food and medical supplies.

I highlight these things not to brag, just to point out their are many churches doing these things, not seeking attention or recognition. From the outside, it may just look like they have a big, nice building, and congregate a couple times a week.
Our Church and others like the one described above help people worldwide. If any of you are interested in helping any of these poor needy people give me you e-mail address. You can then help them directly.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#97
That's true, but that's not what you said and if "only God knows," then your point that "so many great scientists are Christians" can't be true or at least can't be knowable.

Not meaning this to be flip, but the fact that very smart people wrestle with deep questions is unsurprising. That's not the same as being Christian. I'd even go do far as to say that smart people wrestling with deep questions and rejecting fundamental tenets of christianity (e.g., Christ's divinity) is quite the opposite. Some branches of Judaism allow for that kind of flexibility, but I'm not aware of any major sect of Christianity that does.

Sorry, but this point really frustrates me when people start trying to suggest that either being a great thinker makes you christian or vice versa. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's certainly how it came across.
I find it interesting that virtualy all societies worldwide have some short of religion. Why is this ? I am sure you
have read Mans Search for Meaning....by Victor Frankl. In it and later too he explores why we all search for meaning. To have meaning in our life is our deepest search...and that deepest meaning is to to know the essence of everything.
 

Jostate

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#99
I find it interesting that virtualy all societies worldwide have some short of religion. Why is this ? I am sure you
have read Mans Search for Meaning....by Victor Frankl. In it and later too he explores why we all search for meaning. To have meaning in our life is our deepest search...and that deepest meaning is to to know the essence of everything.
We also like answers. Religion has, historically, filled in the gaps where science failed. We prayed to gods for rain, and to heal the sick. We turned to people in the church to know if someone was going to have a boy or a girl or to know if things would go as we wished in the future. Over time science got better at answering many of those questions. It can't allow us to predict the future but scientists give us short range weather forecasts, sometimes even make it rain, heal the sick, help people to be able to have kids, and tell you if your baby is going to be a boy or girl.

But, the one big question science can't touch, and never will, is what happens when we die? People find great comfort in not only knowing the answer but gaining some control over their destiny after they die. Plus the comfort in believing justice will be served in an afterlife. Someone seems to be getting away with being a horrible person, "they'll get what they deserve" in the afterlife. Or a sweet, humble, person who does the right things will be rewarded in the afterlife. Religion has a foot hold there that will always sustain it.
 
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UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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IMO, what would make this world a much better place? If people would keep their religion private and leave it at their home door. People use religion as if they deserve special privileges in society. Stop pulling out the "Religion Card." Instead, replace it with being a good person who is equal to others. Just because you may have a religion does not grant you special privileges. Unfortunately, that's not how the majority of the world works.

In Christianity's bible, congregation and/or church is not even mentioned one time. In fact, I'm 100% certain that Jesus demands to help people in need. Modern-day Christianity, specifically in the US, does not even remotely resemble the teachings of Jesus and what he expects people to do. Instead of helping the poor, sick, etc, modern-day Christians use politics to literally do the complete opposite.

Instead of meeting up, why don't Christians do what Jesus demand they do.. you know, to use your riches to help the poor, instead of what Christians actually do..congregation and demanding special privileges. Jesus said that's literally the only way you will get a ticket to heaven, after all... to help people.
It's not kosher to say, but Christianity of today more resembles the Pharisees than it does the teachings of Christ. Wealth, power, elitism, nationalism. These are the things that come to mind when I think of the American Christian.