Bitter COLD in Oklahoma!

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oks10

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The only reason he is returning is because people found out...and the people of Texas who are melting snow to put into their Toilets to have water to Flush them are SUPER pissed

I expect that was a similar reason why Stitt got back here so quickly after people saw him in New Mexico. Cruz isn't quite as important as a governor but his situation is definitely worse looking than Stitt's was given the severity of things in Texas.
 

Binman4OSU

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I expect that was a similar reason why Stitt got back here so quickly after people saw him in New Mexico. Cruz isn't quite as important as a governor but his situation is definitely worse looking than Stitt's was given the severity of things in Texas.
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1362445726203133952
 

PF5

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The parts of Texas not on its ERCOT power grid appear to have weathered the freeze with few outages
yahoonews

Peter Weber
Thu, February 18, 2021, 2:01 AM


Texas is nearing the end of what Gov. Greg Abbott (R) called "a once-in-every-120-year cold front," but that doesn't entirely explain why more than a million households still had no electricity early Thursday, after three full days of below-freezing temperatures. Plenty of places in the world keep their power on in prolonged arctic weather, and so did parts of Texas.
Those edges of Texas, including El Paso, "are primarily in areas outside of those supported by ERCOT, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the electric grid for 90 percent of the state and operates separately from federal oversight and regulation," KHOU 11 Houston reported Wednesday night.
After the 2011 winter freeze, El Paso Electric, on the Western Interconnect grid, spent heavily to "winterize our equipment and facilities so they could stand minus-10 degree weather for a sustained period of time," Eddie Gutierrez, an El Paso Electric spokesman, told KHOU. So this year, "we had about three thousand people that were out during this period, a thousand of them had outages that were less than five minutes."

On the other side of Texas, near the Louisiana border, the city of Beaumont also appears to have weather the storm without massive outages. Entergy, which powers Beaumont on the Eastern Interconnect grid, told KHOU it also winterized its infrastructure after the 2011 storm. Weatherizing power generation and extraction equipment is voluntary in Texas, though the state legislature will probably revisit that strategy when it dissects ERCOT this year.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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Come on...he just flew his kids down to Cancun to drop them off so he could come right back
I'm gonna have to cut him a little slack here. It's not like he preached to everyone else that they had to stay in Texas and then flew off to Cancun. Not sure how much having Cruz physically in the state helps much anyway. Granted it's not a great look.
 

Binman4OSU

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I'm gonna have to cut him a little slack here. It's not like he preached to everyone else that they had to stay in Texas and then flew off to Cancun. Not sure how much having Cruz physically in the state helps much anyway. Granted it's not a great look.
apparently he felt the need to have a police escort to get through the Houston Airport.

1613673607710.png
 

Binman4OSU

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Beto set up a task force yesterday and they contacted 150K+ elderly people in Texas to ensure they had access to heat, water food, etc and then dispatched police to help that did not have those things.

There are a multitude of things Cruz and his office could be doing to help Texans

 

Donnyboy

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The parts of Texas not on its ERCOT power grid appear to have weathered the freeze with few outages
yahoonews

Peter Weber
Thu, February 18, 2021, 2:01 AM


Texas is nearing the end of what Gov. Greg Abbott (R) called "a once-in-every-120-year cold front," but that doesn't entirely explain why more than a million households still had no electricity early Thursday, after three full days of below-freezing temperatures. Plenty of places in the world keep their power on in prolonged arctic weather, and so did parts of Texas.
Those edges of Texas, including El Paso, "are primarily in areas outside of those supported by ERCOT, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the electric grid for 90 percent of the state and operates separately from federal oversight and regulation," KHOU 11 Houston reported Wednesday night.
After the 2011 winter freeze, El Paso Electric, on the Western Interconnect grid, spent heavily to "winterize our equipment and facilities so they could stand minus-10 degree weather for a sustained period of time," Eddie Gutierrez, an El Paso Electric spokesman, told KHOU. So this year, "we had about three thousand people that were out during this period, a thousand of them had outages that were less than five minutes."

On the other side of Texas, near the Louisiana border, the city of Beaumont also appears to have weather the storm without massive outages. Entergy, which powers Beaumont on the Eastern Interconnect grid, told KHOU it also winterized its infrastructure after the 2011 storm. Weatherizing power generation and extraction equipment is voluntary in Texas, though the state legislature will probably revisit that strategy when it dissects ERCOT this year.
This article is missing a lot. ERCOT spent millions after the 2011 event. El Paso didn’t experience the worst of this storm.....neither did Beaumont. If WEC or SPP had Dallas/Temple/Waco/Austin they would have had problems as well. SPP is having issues in Oklahoma right now so this cherry picking tid bits and ignoring the what’s really going on.
 

Binman4OSU

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This article is missing a lot. ERCOT spent millions after the 2011 event. El Paso didn’t experience the worst of this storm.....neither did Beaumont. If WEC or SPP had Dallas/Temple/Waco/Austin they would have had problems as well. SPP is having issues in Oklahoma right now so this cherry picking tid bits and ignoring the what’s really going on.
I read that after 2011 and after the feds said the ERCOT wasn't prepared for cold weather that the ERCOT left it up to the energy companies to invest in winterizing their equipment and didn't mandate or require it. Is that true?

From what I'm seeing some energy producers ponied up Millions $ and upgraded their equipment, but they were in the minority and that most did not since it wasn't regulated for them to do so.
 

Donnyboy

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I read that after 2011 and after the feds said the ERCOT wasn't prepared for cold weather that the ERCOT left it up to the energy companies to invest in winterizing their equipment and didn't mandate or require it. Is that true?

From what I'm seeing some energy producers ponied up Millions $ and upgraded their equipment, but they were in the minority and that most did not since it wasn't regulated for them to do so.
No it’s not true. ERCOT requires all assets that generate or act as resource load to submit summer and winter readiness plans. They created a group within the ERCOT organization that that is all they do is analyze the plans and visit sites to insure people are actually doing what their plans are and that plans are sufficient. All this “feds told them 10 years ago”. Stuff is crap. Yes there was a major audit after the 2011 event and yes there were findings but everyone of these stories make it sound like ERCOT and all it’s members just told read the findings and said “meh we’re Texas kiss our a$$”. Also everyone acts like companies in ERCOT only do business here. Vistra is the largest player in ERCOT and largest power producer in the United States they have plants in every region and all weather environments......exelon and based out of Pennsylvania....EDF is based in France for Chrissakes. Before the merger I worked for Dynegy they have a plant that is literally lake front on Lake Erie (this is now a vistra asset) and got four feet of snow once. The company I work for had an asset in the NY/PA border and the Texas plants have more rigorous winter prep than they do......because they were designed for it if it got to 115 up there they wouldn’t make it.

This isn’t because ERCOT exists in a bubble and sits around twiddling its thumbs. It’s because they were never designed to handle this. The grid has actually done well considering.

I’m gonna use the building code example again. Most of the people here live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma has crazy weather. In the last three years there has been a 500 year flood and blizzard, dozens of tornados, brush fires, 100+ and sub zero, temperatures. Why isn’t your house designed to withstand all of that. You could build a house with 2ft think concrete walls on 30 ft piers with impact glass and inch thick metal shutters.....doors that would work on a submarine....redundant power/water sources completely insulated utilities that are both temp and fire proof and handle any wind, fire, tornado, or flood......so why don’t you. Because a 2000 sq ft house would cost a couple million dollars to build. So when the flood comes or the tornado blows you away we never say...... man that’s a crap house those people are stupid or those people are so greedy they didn’t build their house well enough. No you build a good house avoid the 200 flood plain, maybe have a small shelter in the garage.....well ERCOT did all those things and then a lot more and formed a group of people that check every “house” twice a year.... this storm is unlike anything Texas has ever experienced. We broke the all time low in Dallas by 11 degrees. To put that in perspective if we do the same to the high it would be 128.......
 
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Binman4OSU

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No it’s not true. ERCOT requires all assets that generate or act as resource load to submit summer and winter readiness plans. They created a group within the ERCOT organization that that is all they do is analyze the plans and visit sites to insure people are actually doing what their plans are and that plans are sufficient. All this “feds told them 10 years ago”. Stuff is crap. Yes there was a major audit after the 2011 event and yes there were findings but everyone of these stories make it sound like ERCOT and all it’s members just told read the findings and said “meh we’re Texas kiss our a$$”. Also everyone acts like companies in ERCOT only do business here. Vistra is the largest player in ERCOT and largest power producer in the United States they have plants in every region and all weather environments......exelon and based out of Pennsylvania....EDF is based in France for Chrissakes. Before the merger I worked for Dynegy they have a plant that is literally lake front on Lake Erie (this is now a vistra asset) and got four feet of snow once. The company I work for had an asset in the NY/PA border and the Texas plants have more rigorous winter prep than they do......because they were designed for it if it got to 115 up there they wouldn’t make it.

This isn’t because ERCOT exists in a bubble and sits around twiddling its thumbs. It’s because they were never designed to handle this. The grid has actually done well considering.

I’m gonna use the building code example again. Most of the people here live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma has crazy weather. In the last three years there has been a 500 year flood and blizzard, dozens of tornados, brush fires, 100+ and sub zero, temperatures. Why isn’t your house designed to withstand all of that. You could build a house with 2ft think concrete walls on 30 ft piers with impact glass and inch thick metal shutters.....doors that would work on a submarine....redundant power/water sources completely insulated utilities that are both temp and fire proof and handle any wind, fire, tornado, or flood......so why don’t you. Because a 2000 sq ft house would cost a couple million dollars to build. So when the flood comes or the tornado blows you away we never say...... man that’s a crap house those people are stupid or those people are so greedy they didn’t build their house well enough. No you build a good house avoid the 200 flood plain, maybe have a small shelter in the garage.....well ERCOT did all those things and then a lot more and formed a group of people that check every “house” twice a year.... this storm is unlike anything Texas has ever experienced. We broke the all time low in Dallas by 11 degrees. To but that in perspective if we do the same to the high it would be 128.......
Makes sense. I mean the only true strict building codes mandated by Govt Legislation to prevent natural disaster damage is pretty much seismic on the West Coast and Hurricane specs on the East Coast (mainly Florida). I wouldn't see where anyone would ever legislate high costs building to mitigate natural disaster damage in Texas over Artic like conditions.

Thanks for the info! Do you think this will impact future building specs on the grid infrastructure in Texas? And if so..what kinda costs are we talking. It would be Billions right ?

In Reality the entire US Grid needs to be updated and overhauled. The loss of electricity just due to Line Loss over our current grid is insane as it is and we could be so much more efficient and secure.
 
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I think a big part of the problem is that everyone is looking to point the finger at someone else, instead of looking at an unprecedented situation, being honest about what could have been done better an coming up with a plan to fix things now and keep it from happening in the future. It is this stunning lack of leadership that will continue to make tragedies like this worse until we figure out how to elect better leaders
 

Donnyboy

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Makes sense. I mean the only true strict building codes mandated by Govt Legislation to prevent natural disaster damage is pretty much seismic on the West Coast and Hurricane specs on the East Coast (mainly Florida). I wouldn't see where anyone would ever legislate high costs building to mitigate natural disaster damage in Texas over Artic like conditions.

Thanks for the info! Do you think this will impact future building specs on the grid infrastructure in Texas? And if so..what kinda costs are we talking. It would be Billions right ?

In Reality the entire US Grid needs to be updated and overhauled. The loss of electricity just due to Line Loss over our current grid is insane as it is and we could be so much more efficient and secure.
It absolutely will. The extreme volatility of the market is what is going to hurt ERCOT though. No one and I mean no will build a thermal asset here after this without significant rule changes.

Everybody always bags on the grid. It’s old it’s out of date it’s this it’s that.......compared to what? Where is the grid 100% smart and run on rainbows. Im not saying you are saying that but you always hear “the grid is out of date”......the American power grid is the largest machine on earth and it’s never shut down. Ever. That’s a pretty good machine. It’s so good that people take it so for granted that it literally runs every aspect of their lives and they put no effort into learning anything about it. Then it when it doesn’t work we call it crap. ERCOT has a greater than 99% availability rate. What else can you say that about. You know a 51 year old house or car that good.....or human body. This is a historic storm and there will be 1000s of lessons learned but right now it’s all being politically driven which isn’t helping and will guarantee the actions taken after aren’t done with actual reliability in mind
 
Sep 3, 2010
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It absolutely will. The extreme volatility of the market is what is going to hurt ERCOT though. No one and I mean no will build a thermal asset here after this without significant rule changes.

Everybody always bags on the grid. It’s old it’s out of date it’s this it’s that.......compared to what? Where is the grid 100% smart and run on rainbows. Im not saying you are saying that but you always hear “the grid is out of date”......the American power grid is the largest machine on earth and it’s never shut down. Ever. That’s a pretty good machine. It’s so good that people take it so for granted that it literally runs every aspect of their lives and they put no effort into learning anything about it. Then it when it doesn’t work we call it crap. ERCOT has a greater than 99% availability rate. What else can you say that about. You know a 51 year old house or car that good.....or human body. This is a historic storm and there will be 1000s of lessons learned but right now it’s all being politically driven which isn’t helping and will guarantee the actions taken after aren’t done with actual reliability in mind
As is almost always the case the truth is somewhere in the middle. I know I've learned a lot in this thread. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
 
Oct 7, 2008
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I think a big part of the problem is that everyone is looking to point the finger at someone else, instead of looking at an unprecedented situation, being honest about what could have been done better an coming up with a plan to fix things now and keep it from happening in the future. It is this stunning lack of leadership that will continue to make tragedies like this worse until we figure out how to elect better leaders
The utterly sad state of politics in this country. We used to rally around tragedies. Now we rush to find a way to blame the other side.
 
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apparently he felt the need to have a police escort to get through the Houston Airport.

View attachment 89005
I can think of a number of reasons why Ted Cruz would need a police escort to get through the airport. It's just a bad look and he's really not helping himself. Not really defending him as much as pointing out that on the list of things that are critical in this emergency Cruz's presence is quite a ways towards the bottom.