Big 12 to meet to consider 6 new teams(PAC)

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Aug 19, 2006
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#81
School affiliation has been the bedrock of college football since it's inception. I just don't understand how the powers that be leave this out of the calculus for revenue expansion. Once these super conferences are finally settled, audiences are going to be a sum total of their existing fan bases. These conferences aren't going to draw fans away from the programs they traditionally identify with. If OSU loses national relevance, I'm not going to start watching OU vs. Georgia or Texas vs. Alabama. I'm going to stop watching college football all together.

I just don't get how their math works. How do you grow revenue without expanding the overall fan base in the process and attracting new eyeballs that weren't already watching the teams that are included?

Seems like just the opposite is going to happen. The national audience is going to contract as a result of alienating the fan bases of teams that are left out. Collectively, that's a lot of eyeballs that have been watching college football for decades. How do you expand revenue by shrinking your overall audience?
 
#82
Arizona State & Oregon State would be huge assets for wrestling


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I say this as a former college wrestler and former high school coach, wrestling doesn't matter. Neither does baseball or softball or anything else. Basketball may be a plus for some colleges, but no major conference is making the realignment decisions based on basketball. This is all about football. Now, if OSU wrestling, baseball, and softball can gain new good competition because of realignment, that's great, but those other sport simply are not part of the equation.
 

PokeJ

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#83
It doesn’t matter. The Big10 and the SEC are going to pull away and have their own National Championship. If you aren’t in their conference it won’t matter


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Ptak'sNewspaper

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#84
Exactly. If anything it will drive those fans to just flat out quit.

I haven't watched an NFL game since the mid-1990's. I ABSOLUTELY.WILL.NOT.WATCH a CFB Blue Bloods league only football game. I'll gladly find something else to do with my Saturdays in the fall.

There has to be literally millions and millions of viewers like me that are sick of this sh*t. Give me at least a semblance of parity or give me nothing.
They are literally flirting with killing the gold pooping goose.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#85
Exactly. If anything it will drive those fans to just flat out quit.

I haven't watched an NFL game since the mid-1990's. I ABSOLUTELY.WILL.NOT.WATCH a CFB Blue Bloods league only football game. I'll gladly find something else to do with my Saturdays in the fall.

There has to be literally millions and millions of viewers like me that are sick of this sh*t. Give me at least a semblance of parity or give me nothing.
If there is some over-arching strategy to all this realignment being coordinated by TV networks and blue blood AD's, then they have to know this, and one would think come up with a way to keep from alienating all those fans. However, this all seems like an "every school for itself" game of high stakes musical chairs to me. If that's the case, then there's a really good chance they're going to kill that golden goose in all of this.
 

PistolPete'sMustache

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Aug 3, 2010
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#86
School affiliation has been the bedrock of college football since it's inception. I just don't understand how the powers that be leave this out of the calculus for revenue expansion. Once these super conferences are finally settled, audiences are going to be a sum total of their existing fan bases. These conferences aren't going to draw fans away from the programs they traditionally identify with. If OSU loses national relevance, I'm not going to start watching OU vs. Georgia or Texas vs. Alabama. I'm going to stop watching college football all together.

I just don't get how their math works. How do you grow revenue without expanding the overall fan base in the process and attracting new eyeballs that weren't already watching the teams that are included?

Seems like just the opposite is going to happen. The national audience is going to contract as a result of alienating the fan bases of teams that are left out. Collectively, that's a lot of eyeballs that have been watching college football for decades. How do you expand revenue by shrinking your overall audience?
I think it's more about the technically "unaffiliated" fans and I suspect there are a ton more than any of us would expect. It's the only explanation for what's going on now. My best guess is that the size of people who didn't attend Ohio State but wear their t-shirts and watch every game is larger than the entirety of the Oklahoma State alumni base. The same is probably true for most blueblood programs in comparison to non-bluebloods. The bluebloods have tons of fans who never attended while non-bluebloods are more heavily followed by alum or families with a personal connection. What we have going for us is that we're enough of a "brand" that LSU v. OKST would far outdraw LSU v. South Carolina, or any of the other teams in consideration for the SEC. Put another way, Ohio State gets big ratings regardless of who they're playing. OKST gets good ratings especialy when paired against a "marquee" or blue blood opponent. That brings value. I'm sure both the BIG and SEC would prefer OKST to Purdue or Mississippi State if they could start over.
 
Nov 21, 2018
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#87
The Big 12 seems to be in the best position of the lower 3 Power conferences right now. The best thing we can do is wait. Yes, it is possible the B12 gets raided again, but there isn't much that can be done about that and if we are raided Oklahoma State will almost certainly be a part of it. Here are the scenarios I see.

ACC Grant of Rights Holds - ND and 1-3 others joins B1G
In this scenario, we will have our pick of the remaining teams in the PAC, whoever the B1G wants they will get. No reason to try to do something now as it won't make a difference. Just wait to see who is left when the dust settles. Though unlikely, if the SEC wanted to expand to match the B1G then the B12 is the only place to go and Oklahoma State is almost certainly in.

ACC Grant of Rights Breaks
Obviously in this scenario B1G and SEC will scoop up whoever they want. Meanwhile, the B12 will now be in a position to add whoever the heck they want. My big question in this scenario is are we locked in to the 4 planned members or can that be re-evaluated? Either way, the B12 will solidly be the best conference not named B1G or SEC.

Note, I don't see how the ACC Grant of Rights can be broken without months (if not years) of legal action. This IMHO makes it a non-starter, but I'm adding it here anyway because I very easily could be wrong.

ACC Grant of Rights Holds - ND doesn't join B1G
This is probably the scenario where the B12 is most vulnerable. Still though, it is debatable if the ACC actually offers anything better to B12 members. If ND joins as a full and equal member then obviously it would be a better place for any B12 team, but I don't really see anyway that happens. Meanwhile, joining with unequal revenue sharing would likely doom the ACC long term. Not a situation any school would want to sign up for.
I totally disagree with the wait and see strategy. We are one of the top 5 brands left out of the power 2 and ACC. The ACC’s GOR deal gives us a head start to negotiate a new home or more powerful B12. But we better be trying to control our own destiny instead of waiting to see what ND and the ACC do.


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Nov 6, 2010
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#88
I totally disagree with the wait and see strategy. We are one of the top 5 brands left out of the power 2 and ACC. The ACC’s GOR deal gives us a head start to negotiate a new home or more powerful B12. But we better be trying to control our own destiny instead of waiting to see what ND and the ACC do.


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Unless waiting is the best way to control our own destiny. Consider a scenario of say the ACC inviting us and WV to join in 2025 and lock us into their current TV deal. Do we jump on it only to see Clemson and FSU jump to the SEC and Duke and NC jump to B1G a couple years later?
 
Aug 7, 2006
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#89
If there is some over-arching strategy to all this realignment being coordinated by TV networks and blue blood AD's, then they have to know this, and one would think come up with a way to keep from alienating all those fans. However, this all seems like an "every school for itself" game of high stakes musical chairs to me. If that's the case, then there's a really good chance they're going to kill that golden goose in all of this.
They've made the calculations... They have some of the highest rated markets for college football in the fold already and losing a small number of fans(in comparison) isn't that big of a deal to them. If it was, they wouldn't be consolidating the way they are.
 

PistolPete'sMustache

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#91
Now Dodd is reporting the Big 12 could add up to six teams, including Washington and Oregon.

Big 12 in deep discussions to add up to six Pac-12 teams after USC, UCLA defections to Big Ten
I saw an article that UW and UO don't have the metrics that we probably thought they did. If ND agrees to join the BIG, I bet they ask that Stanford join, and Stanford will ask for Cal to join, and it will work for academic prestige, to lock down all of California, and to officially kill the PAC. In that scenario, I think UW and UO can be pretty influential and what happens next.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#92
They've made the calculations... They have some of the highest rated markets for college football in the fold already and losing a small number of fans(in comparison) isn't that big of a deal to them. If it was, they wouldn't be consolidating the way they are.
If so, I think they are leaving a couple of important variables out of their calculations.

1. The hate factor. Lots of the blue blood's conference mates' fans watch for the chance to see them lose. I know I've watched a lot of ou games for that reason, and I won't be moving forward.
2. T-shirt/bandwagon fans. As these big name teams consolidate down into the same conferences, the competitive advantages they've enjoyed for so long will become less so. 11-1 seasons will start to turn into 8-4 seasons, and winning championships will go from 4 out of 5 years, to 1 in 10. It's going to be hard for them to keep those unaffiliated fans on the bandwagon with that level of parity.
 
Aug 19, 2006
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#93
They've made the calculations... They have some of the highest rated markets for college football in the fold already and losing a small number of fans(in comparison) isn't that big of a deal to them. If it was, they wouldn't be consolidating the way they are.
This is all about revenue growth but where is the net new revenue going to come from? Is it possible to significantly expand revenue without significantly expanding the audience?

These new super conference matchups are going to have to attract a significant "new" audience, right? Who's going to watch a UCLA - Penn State game that wasn't already going to watch UCLA or Penn State play anyway?
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#94
Love that we are actively trying to get Oregon and Washington now, those two schools will really solidify the new Big 12 in a lot of fans eyes, warranted or not (we are a better program than both of those schools)


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Jul 31, 2008
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#95
Washington State adds nothing. Oregon State adds nothing. Cal adds nothing; Stanford adds nothing (sportswise); the Arizona schools, Colorado, and probably even Utah add nothing. But, put together, especially with Washington and Oregon, they all could bring great value in different combinations. I don't care if Washington fans are a bunch of a-holes, or Oregon fans. I don't care if the West Coast teams bring with them annoying woke politics. What I do care about is OSU being relevant and in a healthy conference. Combinations of Pac-12 teams in our conference could do that.
Better check your list of Natty's. Stanford is #1.

(BTW- Texas has passed us and moved into #4).
 

OSUCowboy787

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#96
Better check your list of Natty's. Stanford is #1.

(BTW- Texas has passed us and moved into #4).
As everyone always tells us though, Golf and wrestling mean nothing in terms of conference realignment.

And they pretty much secured their's in Tennis and Water Polo. My opinion counts for nothing but I believe Wrestling and Golf are more prestigious of sports in the NCAA than Tennis and Water polo....
Screen Shot 2022-07-05 at 12.54.43 PM.png
 

Poke4Christ

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#97
Unless waiting is the best way to control our own destiny. Consider a scenario of say the ACC inviting us and WV to join in 2025 and lock us into their current TV deal. Do we jump on it only to see Clemson and FSU jump to the SEC and Duke and NC jump to B1G a couple years later?
Exactly. Colorado jumped early and I definitely think it has probably hurt them long term. The B12 likely would not have held together anyway, but that was what started it all. What would have been different if Colorado just would have waited?
 

Poke4Christ

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#98
I saw an article that UW and UO don't have the metrics that we probably thought they did. If ND agrees to join the BIG, I bet they ask that Stanford join, and Stanford will ask for Cal to join, and it will work for academic prestige, to lock down all of California, and to officially kill the PAC. In that scenario, I think UW and UO can be pretty influential and what happens next.
That isn't how these things work. ND MIGHT be able to get B1G to take Stanford too, but nothing more. Honestly they probably couldn't even do that anymore. The longer ND waits to join a conference the less power they have to control it.
 
Aug 19, 2006
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#99
Interesting alternative posed by Dennis Dodd. Create a new 16-team conference combining the "best of" PAC 12 and B12. Not super conference caliber but looks better than just adding 4 Pac 12 teams to the existing B12.

MIDWEST
Baylor
BYU
Cincinnati
Houston
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas Tech
UCF

WEST
Arizona
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Stanford
Utah
Washington
 

OSUCowboy787

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Interesting alternative posed by Dennis Dodd. Create a new 16-team conference combining the "best of" PAC 12 and B12. Not super conference caliber but looks better than just adding 4 Pac 12 teams to the existing B12.

MIDWEST
Baylor
BYU
Cincinnati
Houston
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas Tech
UCF

WEST
Arizona
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Stanford
Utah
Washington
Notes now we are in position to offer 6 teams from the Pac to join the Big 12. if we can rope in Washington and Oregon that would be a HUGE win.