Basketball: Rosters are getting a bit more clear Big 12

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Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#41
I think Jericho Sims draft decision is the lynchpin to that Texas team. With him they are top 10. W/o him way wider range of outcomes.


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Jul 27, 2011
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Bixby
#42
I think Jericho Sims draft decision is the lynchpin to that Texas team. With him they are top 10. W/o him way wider range of outcomes.


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Getting Sims back would be a huge addition, but UT doesn't need any more help in the frontcourt.

Disu, Mitchell, Allen, and Bishop is already one of the best frontcourts in the country. Their biggest (and only) real weakness is wing depth. I assume Allen will get plenty of minutes at the 3 spot, but I see him as a small-ball, mismatch 4. Same goes for Bishop.

Beyond that, they'll have to run a bunch of guard heavy lineups. Fortunately for them, they have really good guards.

If Sims were to return, they would rival KU for preseason favorite IMO. In that scenario, I see their lineup like this:

Courtney Ramey/Devin Askew
Andrew Jones
Timmy Allen/Jase Febres
Tre Mitchell/Christian Bishop
Jericho Sims/Dylan Disu

That is a loaded roster. With some more room for Beard to build.

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Sep 1, 2007
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Denver, CO
#43
Getting Sims back would be a huge addition, but UT doesn't need any more help in the frontcourt.

Disu, Mitchell, Allen, and Bishop is already one of the best frontcourts in the country. Their biggest (and only) real weakness is wing depth. I assume Allen will get plenty of minutes at the 3 spot, but I see him as a small-ball, mismatch 4. Same goes for Bishop.

Beyond that, they'll have to run a bunch of guard heavy lineups. Fortunately for them, they have really good guards.

If Sims were to return, they would rival KU for preseason favorite IMO. In that scenario, I see their lineup like this:

Courtney Ramey/Devin Askew
Andrew Jones
Timmy Allen/Jase Febres
Tre Mitchell/Christian Bishop
Jericho Sims/Dylan Disu

That is a loaded roster. With some more room for Beard to build.

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I see a lot of good pieces, some excelled at a lower level, I don’t see a true alpha in that bunch so it will be interesting to see it play out. Definitely a top 15 team on paper.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Bixby
#44
Getting Sims back would be a huge addition, but UT doesn't need any more help in the frontcourt.

Disu, Mitchell, Allen, and Bishop is already one of the best frontcourts in the country. Their biggest (and only) real weakness is wing depth. I assume Allen will get plenty of minutes at the 3 spot, but I see him as a small-ball, mismatch 4. Same goes for Bishop.

Beyond that, they'll have to run a bunch of guard heavy lineups. Fortunately for them, they have really good guards.

If Sims were to return, they would rival KU for preseason favorite IMO. In that scenario, I see their lineup like this:

Courtney Ramey/Devin Askew
Andrew Jones
Timmy Allen/Jase Febres
Tre Mitchell/Christian Bishop
Jericho Sims/Dylan Disu

That is a loaded roster. With some more room for Beard to build.

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I see a lot of good pieces, some excelled at a lower level, I don’t see a true alpha in that bunch so it will be interesting to see it play out. Definitely a top 15 team on paper.
Courtney Ramey averaged 12 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists. 3rd team All Big 12.

Andrew Jones averaged 14 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists. 2nd team All Big 12.

Timmy Allen averaged 17 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists at Utah. 1st team All Pac 12.

Dylan Disu averaged 15 points and 9 rebounds in the SEC.

Tre Mitchell averaged 18 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists. 1st team All A-10. He dropped 30 in 3 of the 13 games UMASS played.

Any one of these guys can be a go-to scorer.

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Sep 1, 2007
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#45
Courtney Ramey averaged 12 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists. 3rd team All Big 12.

Andrew Jones averaged 14 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists. 2nd team All Big 12.

Timmy Allen averaged 17 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists at Utah. 1st team All Pac 12.

Dylan Disu averaged 15 points and 9 rebounds in the SEC.

Tre Mitchell averaged 18 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists. 1st team All A-10. He dropped 30 in 3 of the 13 games UMASS played.

Any one of these guys can be a go-to scorer.

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Yup. Good players but no superstars. nbadraft.net (not that I’m a big fan on their mocks) has 3 OSU players in the top 40 of the 2022 draft and none of these UT players in the top 40.

Vandy was terrible, Utah irrelevant, UMass barely played. These guys are good, but not future NBA players. Maybe Beard can mold them into something but on talent alone they don’t scare anyone.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Bixby
#46
Courtney Ramey averaged 12 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists. 3rd team All Big 12.

Andrew Jones averaged 14 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists. 2nd team All Big 12.

Timmy Allen averaged 17 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists at Utah. 1st team All Pac 12.

Dylan Disu averaged 15 points and 9 rebounds in the SEC.

Tre Mitchell averaged 18 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists. 1st team All A-10. He dropped 30 in 3 of the 13 games UMASS played.

Any one of these guys can be a go-to scorer.

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Yup. Good players but no superstars. nbadraft.net (not that I’m a big fan on their mocks) has 3 OSU players in the top 40 of the 2022 draft and none of these UT players in the top 40.

Vandy was terrible, Utah irrelevant, UMass barely played. These guys are good, but not future NBA players. Maybe Beard can mold them into something but on talent alone they don’t scare anyone.
Fair enough. No major draft prospects, but plenty of proven D1 talent that's been very productive.

Meshing an entirely new roster with an entirely new coaching staff will take time and could fail, but they have the players to win the conference.

Also, like you said, nbadraft.net is pretty terrible. 15th for Anderson is far too high and there's no way Kalib Boone is a borderline 1st rounder right now. If anything, Anderson is more realistic at 33.

But that's neither here nor there.

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Sep 1, 2007
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Denver, CO
#47
Fair enough. No major draft prospects, but plenty of proven D1 talent that's been very productive.

Meshing an entirely new roster with an entirely new coaching staff will take time and could fail, but they have the players to win the conference.

Also, like you said, nbadraft.net is pretty terrible. 15th for Anderson is far too high and there's no way Kalib Boone is a borderline 1st rounder right now. If anything, Anderson is more realistic at 33.

But that's neither here nor there.

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Agreed, I don’t really see Boone as an NBA prospect and Anderson has a lot to prove.

As for UT, I don’t see Disu or Mitchell being double digit scorers in the Big 12 but they had a lot of playing time available and have filled the holes nicely. I’m more afraid of what Beard can build in the next 3-4 years.

One other point, most players transfer due to a coaching change or are seeking greener pastures to showcase themselves for the NBA. Guys who go from averaging 15-18 points at one school to limited minutes at a new school generally do not create the greatest culture.
 
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Sep 23, 2010
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#48
I still feel good about my original tier system, but Texas continuing to add quality players with Beard's ability to coach is making me want to put them in Tier 1. And I also feel compelled to put Baylor in Tier 1. But I believe we are still in the same Tier as both those teams with all of our returners and the addition of talent we have had. There has to be some value in continuity. I agree with others that TCU could be a sleeper but losing their best big and their best guard is tough despite some nice looking transfers coming in.

I am a little confused why we are not a preseason top 25 team in most publications. We played pretty well last year without Cade for some games.

Tier 1 -- Kansas
Tier 2 -- Texas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Tier 3 -- Oklahoma, Texas Tech, TCU, Kansas State
Tier 4 -- Iowa State
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Bixby
#49
I still feel good about my original tier system, but Texas continuing to add quality players with Beard's ability to coach is making me want to put them in Tier 1. And I also feel compelled to put Baylor in Tier 1. But I believe we are still in the same Tier as both those teams with all of our returners and the addition of talent we have had. There has to be some value in continuity. I agree with others that TCU could be a sleeper but losing their best big and their best guard is tough despite some nice looking transfers coming in.

I am a little confused why we are not a preseason top 25 team in most publications. We played pretty well last year without Cade for some games.

Tier 1 -- Kansas
Tier 2 -- Texas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Tier 3 -- Oklahoma, Texas Tech, TCU, Kansas State
Tier 4 -- Iowa State
I think most college basketball media see the absence of Cade and assume a massive drop off.

I don't think the average CBB media member puts a ton of effort into offseason research.

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CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#50
Getting Sims back would be a huge addition, but UT doesn't need any more help in the frontcourt.

Disu, Mitchell, Allen, and Bishop is already one of the best frontcourts in the country. Their biggest (and only) real weakness is wing depth. I assume Allen will get plenty of minutes at the 3 spot, but I see him as a small-ball, mismatch 4. Same goes for Bishop.

Beyond that, they'll have to run a bunch of guard heavy lineups. Fortunately for them, they have really good guards.

If Sims were to return, they would rival KU for preseason favorite IMO. In that scenario, I see their lineup like this:

Courtney Ramey/Devin Askew
Andrew Jones
Timmy Allen/Jase Febres
Tre Mitchell/Christian Bishop
Jericho Sims/Dylan Disu

That is a loaded roster. With some more room for Beard to build.

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Biggest question will be if they will buy in to Beard's system and style. I would as a player in a heartbeat but it's not for everyone.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#51
Biggest question will be if they will buy in to Beard's system and style. I would as a player in a heartbeat but it's not for everyone.
Yeah. They run motion and not as many sets. There are a lot isos in their motion. Beard's offense is a little old school with some new school elements involved. So 5 stars might not be too keen on being a part of that type of offense. It's also very methodical. They hold the ball for a long time on possessions.
 

CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#52
Yeah. They run motion and not as many sets. There are a lot isos in their motion. Beard's offense is a little old school with some new school elements involved. So 5 stars might not be too keen on being a part of that type of offense. It's also very methodical. They hold the ball for a long time on possessions.
And real defense. That’s the other reason he’s been successful. Hard nosed man to man and that requires effort and buy in as well.
 

CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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#56
Why would you say that?

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The straight to HS and even one and done rule have changed the mentality of those elite Top 50 guys. They’ve been “the man” since 5th grade for some of them. All about points. They’re role models growing up in the game are all about points. Defense, real defense not brother in le ball, requires a commitment to a level of effort that most don’t want to make. There isn’t as much glory in it. I’m not that old but old school
Tough defense is as much fun to watch as 100+ games. But it takes the right kind of players and you need it up and down the roster. It’s not a dig, just what my eyes tell me regarding most of those Top 50 guys year in and year out.

Edit: add the what AAU has become to that as well.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Bixby
#57
Why would you say that?

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The straight to HS and even one and done rule have changed the mentality of those elite Top 50 guys. They’ve been “the man” since 5th grade for some of them. All about points. They’re role models growing up in the game are all about points. Defense, real defense not brother in le ball, requires a commitment to a level of effort that most don’t want to make. There isn’t as much glory in it. I’m not that old but old school
Tough defense is as much fun to watch as 100+ games. But it takes the right kind of players and you need it up and down the roster. It’s not a dig, just what my eyes tell me regarding most of those Top 50 guys year in and year out.

Edit: add the what AAU has become to that as well.
This is certainly possible. I can't speak for most of the top 50 or so recruits, but a lot of the really high level, one-and-done type guys are very good defenders.

Just looking at this year's draft class there are several: Cade, Evan Mobley, Jalen Suggs, Scottie Barnes, Ziaire Williams, Keon Johnson, Jaden Springer...

I'm sure there's more but those were the few I could think of off the top of my head. Jalen Duren - #1 in 2022 - is a defensive monster.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know enough about all of the top guys each year to say, but I don't think Beard will have problems finding willing and able defenders amongst the top recruits.

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Sep 23, 2010
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#58
I would not call Cade a great defender. He was in foul trouble often. Part of being a good defender is defending without fouling. I know he was good for some offensive fouls as well. He also lacks some lateral quickness. But, he was a versatile defender and mostly a willing defender that was beneficial to our team.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Bixby
#59
I would not call Cade a great defender. He was in foul trouble often. Part of being a good defender is defending without fouling. I know he was good for some offensive fouls as well. He also lacks some lateral quickness. But, he was a versatile defender and mostly a willing defender that was beneficial to our team.
I wouldn't call him a "great" defender either. As you said, he lacks elite lateral quickness and occasionally he would fall asleep as the help side defender.

But I feel comfortable saying he is a good to very good defender. He is long, versatile, and switchable. He has quick hands and he's really good at reading passing lanes. He's also pretty good at timing his traps to cause TO's without leading to easy swing passes.

He should be a net positive on defense at the next level. As should all of those guys I mentioned above, and some of them should be All-NBA caliber defenders. I believe each was a 5 star recruit.

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