Wuhan Coronavirus

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Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
Seasons don't fear the reaper
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain, we can be like they are
Come on baby, don't fear the reaper
Baby take my hand, don't fear the reaper
We'll be able to fly, don't fear the reaper
 

Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
They don’t register off shore to avoid taxes. To be US registered, it has to be built in the US. Nobody builds ships in the US - too expensive.

Owning a ship that does business in the US is complicated.

All US to US commercial trade can only be engaged by ships with US registry. To get US registry the ship has to be built in the US. Thus, 99% of all cruise ships are foreign built and flagged because of build cost. Thus, those ships that dock in the US must dock at a foreign port before returning to the US.

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Not true. Ships can re flag if they want to and it is a common practice


CLIA [Cruise Lines International Association] maintains there are reasons for such policies: “There are many factors that determine where a cruise ship — or for that matter, any maritime vessel — is flagged. Those determinations are made by individual cruise lines and other ship operators based on varying factors including the capabilities of the flag to deliver the services needed; representation and reputation of the flag in the international shipping community; the performance of the flag state, which dictates how a ship is prioritized by port states; the pool of seafarers able to meet the needs of the flag; and the flag’s fees/charges and taxes,”

Or this academic paper

On the other hand, an academic paper by Caitlin E. Burke of the University of Florida about “Legal Issues Relevant to Cruise Ships” made no bones of observing that reflagging of ships had long been used as a means of avoiding U.S. federal taxes, labor and safety laws, environmental laws, lawsuits, criminal investigations, and other regulations:
Aside from the majority revenue generated by U.S. passengers, cruise lines are independent of the U.S. economy. Even though nearly 75 percent of passengers are U.S. citizens, “cruise line corporations and their ships are not traditionally American-owned or registered …” (Tomlinson, 2007)
Cruise line companies are not concerned about increasing minimum wage, rising insurance premiums, or higher corporate taxes. Cruise lines escape federal taxes and labor laws by registering their corporations and vessels in foreign countries [such as] Panama, Liberia, and the Bahamas. In fact, employees of cruise lines are often mistreated due to lackadaisical labor laws. Worst of all, employees will find little to no recourse pursuing litigation. Likewise, a U.S. citizen passenger faces the same predicament.
A vessel’s country of registration is commonly referred to as the “flag of convenience” (FOC). Flagging a ship under a foreign flag for the convenience of the cruise line is nothing new, nor is it rare. The majority of cruise ships today are registered to Panama, Liberia, or the Bahamas. It is important to pay close attention as many vessels within the same fleet are often registered to different countries. Carnival Corporation, for example, has flagged their cruise vessel Celebration under Panama and Destiny under the Bahamas. Cruise lines often avoid drawing attention to the FOC of by using the term “headquartered in Miami, Florida.” It is important to understand that while the majority of these cruise lines have their headquarters in Miami, they are not registered in the U.S. Thus, U.S. laws do not apply and passengers are at the mercy of maritime law.​
 

Pokey

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Nobody says he's above the law or perfect, but people (including left politicians) are trying to blame him for the fact that China and the WHO lied to the world. They should be blaming China.


All of these people trying to say Trump didn't do enough....

Nikki Haley:
"Let’s be clear: The WHO delayed calling the virus a health emergency and then criticized U.S. travel restrictions placed on China. The WHO was trying to save China its embarrassment. And still, China wouldn’t cooperate transparently with the WHO."

Random Twitter troll:
"China didn't botch the US response. Trump, Trump media, and the Trump GOP did that with denialism and inaction.

You cost us 3 PRECIOUS MONTHS and now we're sending our healthcare warriors into battle without weapons or gear."

3 months ago was December 26.
China and WHO downplayed the virus.
The first China reported death was Jan. 11th I believe.
China didn't do a lock-down of Wuhan until Jan. 23rd.
Trump restricted travel Jan. 31.

Here's a timeline of some of the things Trump did to respond.


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You’re right, Trump the stable genius, truly does know more than the generals, scientists, and physicians. He is so warm and empathetic. He’s truly giving so much of himself to comfort the people. Totally selfless. He’s so truthful. There has never been such a great man, so perfect and beyond reproach. How dare anyone question anything he does. I can only think of one man that exceeds him.
 

State

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The Obama Admin created a Pandemic Federal Govt playbook after the H1N1 virus. It was reviewed at a table top exercise with Trump and his Admin prior to Obama and Admin leaving.

Someone withing the current Admin has leaked it to the press who have now uploaded it and are blaming the Trump admin for not following the guideline

Who says it was someone within the Trump Admin that leaked it? Could have been someone from the Obama NSC. Also, I've read the Pandemic Crisis Action Plan and they've actually followed it pretty closely.

Regardless, plans are never meant to be followed rigidly. "Plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."- GEN Eisenhower
 

oks10

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You’re right, Trump the stable genius, truly does know more than the generals, scientists, and physicians. He is so warm and empathetic. He’s truly giving so much of himself to comfort the people. Totally selfless. He’s so truthful. There has never been such a great man, so perfect and beyond reproach. How dare anyone question anything he does. I can only think of one man that exceeds him.
Would it kill you to post anything of substance related to the subject at hand instead of flooding the thread with sarcastic bullshit??
 
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They don’t register off shore to avoid taxes. To be US registered, it has to be built in the US. Nobody builds ships in the US - too expensive.

Owning a ship that does business in the US is complicated.

All US to US commercial trade can only be engaged by ships with US registry. To get US registry the ship has to be built in the US. Thus, 99% of all cruise ships are foreign built and flagged because of build cost. Thus, those ships that dock in the US must dock at a foreign port before returning to the US.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not true. Ships can re flag if they want to and it is a common practice


CLIA [Cruise Lines International Association] maintains there are reasons for such policies: “There are many factors that determine where a cruise ship — or for that matter, any maritime vessel — is flagged. Those determinations are made by individual cruise lines and other ship operators based on varying factors including the capabilities of the flag to deliver the services needed; representation and reputation of the flag in the international shipping community; the performance of the flag state, which dictates how a ship is prioritized by port states; the pool of seafarers able to meet the needs of the flag; and the flag’s fees/charges and taxes,”

Or this academic paper

On the other hand, an academic paper by Caitlin E. Burke of the University of Florida about “Legal Issues Relevant to Cruise Ships” made no bones of observing that reflagging of ships had long been used as a means of avoiding U.S. federal taxes, labor and safety laws, environmental laws, lawsuits, criminal investigations, and other regulations:
Aside from the majority revenue generated by U.S. passengers, cruise lines are independent of the U.S. economy. Even though nearly 75 percent of passengers are U.S. citizens, “cruise line corporations and their ships are not traditionally American-owned or registered …” (Tomlinson, 2007)
Cruise line companies are not concerned about increasing minimum wage, rising insurance premiums, or higher corporate taxes. Cruise lines escape federal taxes and labor laws by registering their corporations and vessels in foreign countries [such as] Panama, Liberia, and the Bahamas. In fact, employees of cruise lines are often mistreated due to lackadaisical labor laws. Worst of all, employees will find little to no recourse pursuing litigation. Likewise, a U.S. citizen passenger faces the same predicament.
A vessel’s country of registration is commonly referred to as the “flag of convenience” (FOC). Flagging a ship under a foreign flag for the convenience of the cruise line is nothing new, nor is it rare. The majority of cruise ships today are registered to Panama, Liberia, or the Bahamas. It is important to pay close attention as many vessels within the same fleet are often registered to different countries. Carnival Corporation, for example, has flagged their cruise vessel Celebration under Panama and Destiny under the Bahamas. Cruise lines often avoid drawing attention to the FOC of by using the term “headquartered in Miami, Florida.” It is important to understand that while the majority of these cruise lines have their headquarters in Miami, they are not registered in the U.S. Thus, U.S. laws do not apply and passengers are at the mercy of maritime law.​
Are you familiar with the Jones Act of 1920?

US flagged ships have to be built in the US. That’s law.
Only US flagged ships can engage in commercial business between US posts. That’s law.
Shipbuilding in the US is multiples more expensive than places like S Korea, Vietnam Indonesia, Philippines, etc.. That’s fact.
There is only one cruise ship that is flagged in the US - NCL America’s Pride of America (1999). That aside, the last cruise ship built in the US was more than 50 years ago.


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Pokey

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Would it kill you to post anything of substance related to the subject at hand instead of flooding the thread with sarcastic bullshit??
Just trying to understand how satisfied we all are with the response to this crisis. Why do you call it sarcastic? Sorry so many of you have such paper thin skin
 

Rack

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Just trying to understand how satisfied we all are with the response to this crisis. Why do you call it sarcastic? Sorry so many of you have such paper thin skin
There will always be some who think it's not enough and blame the POTUS...this despite the FACT that it's the most we have EVER, in our entire history, responded like this to a health crisis. AND, it's not even close.
 
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RxCowboy

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Not sure how beneficial this is. It says right in the description that CFR is specific to a location and time, but then goes on to compare CFRs from two different locations. A better comparison would have been seasonal flu deaths in China vs COVID-19 deaths in China.
He admitted the limitations of the data. The best we have to go on is the best we have to go on.
 

Deere Poke

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From a colleague's COVID-19 presentation:

View attachment 78889
That is such a useless chart that's good for nothing but fear mongering. We are comparing actual tested numbers of Corona infections against estimates for total number of flu infections. When you get into the estimates for number of corona infections the death rate comes in line with flu death rates. Although on the old end it's about double the flu and on the younger spectrum it's less.
 

Pokey

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There will always be some who think it's not enough and blame the POTUS...this despite the FACT that it's the most we have EVER, in our entire history, responded like this to a health crisis. AND, it's not even close.
For eight years Obama was called everything in the book and his judgement and policy questioned at every turn. Now it’s fowl play to say a word against or question anything about dear leader. Got it.
 

State

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Nobody says he's above the law or perfect, but people (including left politicians) are trying to blame him for the fact that China and the WHO lied to the world. They should be blaming China.


All of these people trying to say Trump didn't do enough....

Nikki Haley:
"Let’s be clear: The WHO delayed calling the virus a health emergency and then criticized U.S. travel restrictions placed on China. The WHO was trying to save China its embarrassment. And still, China wouldn’t cooperate transparently with the WHO."

Random Twitter troll:
"China didn't botch the US response. Trump, Trump media, and the Trump GOP did that with denialism and inaction.

You cost us 3 PRECIOUS MONTHS and now we're sending our healthcare warriors into battle without weapons or gear."

3 months ago was December 26.
China and WHO downplayed the virus.
The first China reported death was Jan. 11th I believe.
China didn't do a lock-down of Wuhan until Jan. 23rd.
Trump restricted travel Jan. 31.

Here's a timeline of some of the things Trump did to respond.


Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
There was actually more that he doesn't cover-
CDC establisheda COVID -19 Incident Management System on January 7 , 2020
HHS established a response effort from the Secretary's Operations Center on January 24
On January 27, the President’s Coronavirus Task Force was formed and charged with leading the USG response.
On February 10, at HHS request, FEMA embedded a team with ASPR (Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response) to support crisis action planning

Going further back-
The Pandemic Crisis Action Plan was approved in Jan 2018 after the Biological Incident Annex to the Federal Interagency Operational Plan was updated in Nov 2017

This stuff is easy to find and if we had a remotely unbiased media they would catalog this rather than regurgitate Democratic talking-points
 

RxCowboy

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That is such a useless chart that's good for nothing but fear mongering. We are comparing actual tested numbers of Corona infections against estimates for total number of flu infections. When you get into the estimates for number of corona infections the death rate comes in line with flu death rates. Although on the old end it's about double the flu and on the younger spectrum it's less.
Okie doke. I'll pass this along to the infectious disease specialist.
 

Pokey

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I am pleased that we are testing more and more people. It’s the only way we can know the extent of the virus. I wished the majority of people would shelter in place. A world without elders falls short.